Preserved Topic: World Cup Part V (spoilers!)

Continued from here.

This should be the last World Cup post, since we only have four matches left...





Cell 270

Hmm FIFA announces that referee's have made several mad mistakes especially in the spain v's korea and italy v's korea games, its a bit too late when teams that should have won get knocked out by multiple errors from referee's but shit happens, let's just hope they get it right in future, teams should get through on merit not because of referee's stupidity.. GO BRAZIL

Well Tom, interesting that it is only those games that get mentioned...

Sounds more like European teams (and FIFA...is also mostly European, isn't it?) can't stand to lose...and have to bitch and moan about the only possible reason for it...you don't see the Americans screaming about it, now do you?

Yes, there have been some less than good calls. However, to win, one must shoot goals. And that is the bottom line.

So let's hope that the rest of the games run smoothly...tomorrow is the semi-finals....

Hey Web Shaman, There's something bad, and it's bad! you cannot ask the people to shut up because of USA is not shouting or because you don't like europeans teams/clubs.

USA has nothing to shout about it, that was a mistake, a goal that never got INTO the goal line, a hand made in the small área that the refery didn't see. It's that so rare? no! that happens all the time!
What does not happen all the time is the fact of seing one clear goal and invalidate, the fact of seeing the ball going throught the corner line when it didn't, the fact of seing 4 off side when they were clearly not, the fact that a Korean player made more than 10 foults and only in the #15 foult he saw an amonestation (yellow card).

Tell me whatever you want, but don't tell me that this is normal and that shit happens all the time because it doesn't.
And yes! only europeans teams, see turkey? they deserved to win Brazil! but the refery made a lot of mistakes. Referys are there to make fair the game, and if the game is not fair, why is the FIFA paying so much money to them? If they are not making their work?
Shit like Spain, Italy, USA and turkey cannot happen anymore! this is a game that moves millions and millions of dollars, and you are going to tell me or the spanish team to shut up? After 4 years of training? after millions of dollars in invested in the team to win this world cup?
Sorry, but that scary. If we look that Koreans were going to loos a lot of money in the world cup organization because of the FIFA's stupidity, the only way to don't loose so much money was making the team gets semi-finals or even the final.

But that's another thing, the thing here is that FIFA has to make referies work as well as they are payed.

Hey have you heard me complaining that england is knocked out...no.... simple we WERE BEATEN by THE BETTER TEAM on the day, I ahve no problems with that, those are the breaks, all i did was point out a press release from FIFA ADMITTING "SEVERAL REFFEREE ERRORS,ESPECIALLY IN THE KOREA ITALY,KOREA SPAIN MATCHES"

Hmm does that sound like i am a bad loser no....that was the release from FIFA, and in case you dont understand (F)ederation of (I)nternational (F)ootball (A)ssociations and i think that europe is only part of the international football scene, by all rights if the referee errors hadnt happened some teams out would still be in the tournament possibly.

However shit happens its not worth getting freaked about...its only a game, but i hate it when people assume that others are making comments on FIFA's release because they are european etc. Its hard enough for teams when they are knocked out when its their own mistakes ie bad defence etc, not scoring goals... BUT WHEN Referee's are incapable of making thr ight decisions which cost the better team the game THEN IT SUCKS!! IMHO Korea should be out, they were beaten by twp goals that were incorrectly disallowed..but as i said shit happens...there is no retrospective turn arounds of scores etc even in the face of blatant errors.

Korea didnt deserve to win that game plain and simple, its not me moaning hell i am not even spanish, yes i am european but that doesnt mean i am a sore loser, I am proud of the way England played, one of the best world cup performances in years...it wasnt meant to be as simple as that, but at least we didnt get knocked out by stupidity of an official..

If this tournament carries on like this with the conpletely stupid decisions will the title this time around be worth anything, it seems to me this tournament will be remembered for STUPID MISTAKES and some kick ass football from some new and upcoming football teams,and the knock outs of teams that deserved to win....

the only loser in this is football the game itself, I hope brazil wins it they are one of the few teams that has risen above all this and played like we all know they can, lets just hope the next Korea game is not so controversial...and they win on merit not get given the game by a referees mistakes again

ps WS Git anything done for RR yet ???

[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 06-24-2002).]

I can tell you for a fact that everyone here is hoping the next game is not as controversial...

Ok...some rather 'heated' comments...maybe we should start a different thread for that, hmmm? I mean, I can see where wakky is coming from, and also Tom...

However, the end result is the end result.

Yes, there is cause for alarm...and more, evidence of mishap. But let us concentrate on the World Cup in this thread, please...also, consider the fact (this at you wakky) that the US also spend a lot of money, etc on this, and also got sent home because of an 'error'...you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. In my example (the US boys), they had more than enough ample oppertunities to score...and just wasn't able to. And that's all there is to it. Spain also had other chances (besides those that you mentioned) but failed, as well. And that is why they are at home (aside from the refs). So anymore stuff regarding the refs, please, post it in another thread...and we can then really get into that...but not here...let us, at least, keep this thread 'clean', in the true spirit of the WC, ok?

I second that motion.

QUOTE:"Sounds more like European teams (and FIFA...is also mostly European, isn't it?) can't stand to lose...and have to bitch and moan about the only possible reason for it...you don't see the Americans screaming about it, now do you?"

hmmm ok that type of comment will fire anyone up, however, i didnt rise to the bait, what i did point out was that errors made by officials have cast a shadow over the top tournament for this sport, simply put some teams that should have won didnt, and some that are through havent earned their place in the next round, getting through on merit is cool, getting thru by being handed the game by an error doesnt count for shit in my view, but at the end of the day they are through and thats all that counts.

WS as for ya other bone of contentention that spain had other chances that they missed you are right, they didnt take them and converrt them into goals, but they had two clear goals dissallowed by the match official in complete stupidity or human error whatever, the CLEAR POINT IS:

if they had legetimately been allowed spain would have been through the other missed chances are irrelevant, and for my 0.2 this thread is about the world cup so matches etc officials all have a role in this thread comments about cant stand losing etc DO NOT...

this started out as a comment on fifa's press release which then turned into a cat fight with WS's comments so lets cut out the name calling etc. but comments on the tournament etc are valid.

The only spoliers i can see at the moment have been the match officials and the ticketing organisation....

In other news, the referee for the Korea-Germany match is Swiss (Urs Meier). Let's hope he can be "neutral."

I think it is obvious to everyone that the officiating this time around has been pretty poor, and I think that's very unfortunate. It's especially bad for Korea, since their performance is being ignored because of the controversy. They have played very well so far, but everyone just wants to focus on the officiating. I've heard some Korean fans say they wouldn't mind a loss to Germany just to shake off the ridiculous specter of a "conspiracy." My fear is that, if that happens, everyone would merely say, "See, Korea can't do anything without the ref's help." The ideal result (for me) would be a non-controversial win for Korea, but I'm not sure if that's possible with the present mood.

I won't be around tomorrow for the game--I'll be going out again to watch. Whichever way it goes, I'm proud of the way Korea has played so far. I'm just disappointed that the controversy has taken center stage.

Well Tom, you have a point...but I'm tired of hearing about the refs...I get it every hour here (and I don't mean the Asylum...). The normal 'ribbing' I expected...that is just natural, really (our team is better than yours kinda stuff). But the ref thing is becoming a problem...and, quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of hearing about it.

That is why my initial reaction was so, and if I have offended someone with it, I apologize. If someone wishes to discuss it, my suggestion stands. I will attempt to hold my opinions on the games to the point : good/bad playing...and not good/bad referee-ing...

With the lack of the US, I'm now going with my second-favorite team (sorry Master Suho...) Brazil!

Go Brazil!!!

suho, i hope korea win without any controversial errors for a couple of reasons.

1.It would be great to see the outside chance team win....
2.Germany is one of englands greatest rivals ( beat em for us )
3.It will show that the last two matches wern't won by default so to speak

so good luck and kick ass

Yeah, I want Korea to win, too. Go Korea!

However, I have other reasons for that (hehe...)

laugh WS I see ya motive korea would be the softer option for brazil think of the psych they would have playing the underdog at home in the final...they would have to win, all the pressure would be on brazil, korea could enjoy the game and if they won it would be a bonus anyway if korea beat germany ya got another great reason give the guys at work some shit !!!!!!!!!

Well, considering that Korea almost beat Germany before (3-2, came back from a 3-0 deficit against a much stronger German team, with a much weaker Korean team), I would say that the chances are very good that Korea will win. Most Germans here go into apoplexy when I even mention it...hehe...

Seems like their nerves are frayed...

Go Korea!

WS just tell 'em stop being a bunch of sauer krauts lol, they played like a bunch of mouldy cabbages

I've read an article, here in Brazil, about the errors of the referees in this World Cup. The author says that this WC should be called Error Cup, or Cup of the Errors. I fully agree with it. And, according to this article (and I agree with the whole article), Korea was the team, so far, that was more helped by the referee's mistakes. Brazil comes as the second place (we had mistakes that favored us in Turkey and Belgium plays).
I personally HATE these referee's mistakes. FIFA has to find a better solution, a solution where the cameras can help the referee's decisions. I personally think that Korea and Brazil are not the ones to blame, FIFA is the one.
For me there is no excuse to accept these errors. They simply suck.

well FIFA announced that they have now plans now or in the future to use video replay during a match to resolve any decisions that are in dispute..that sucks..go to cnn.com they have quite good coverage of the fifa statements about all of this

Though on the surface it may seem like a good idea to use the cameras, in the praxis however, it won't work. Why? Because soccer is not a 'stop and go' sport, and the game flow would be therefore interrupted.

A better solution would be to use 'professional' teams of refs (and line officials) that have demonstrated their abilities time and again, and stop using the 'land of origin' rule. This would, IMHO, take out any 'inexperience' and 'unfairness' calls...

I wonder what the rankings will be after this WC .. would be interesting to see how far Korea jumps


Click on the Image to go to the Recycling Center .::. cEll .::. 513

There is no way for a human eye to be as good as an electronic eye.
Even the best referee will make mistakes and one mistake is enough to make a result unfair. I'm talking about World Cup. World Cup demands no error at all. One error can change the result of a game forever, so, can change the result of the World Cup forever, as we are seeing in this 2002 version. IF that goal of Italy had been validated (as it should), Korea wasn't still playing, IF that two goals of Spain were validated (as they should), Korea wasn't still playing, IF that Belgium goal was validated, Brazil could not have won the match, IF, IF IF ... I think that the cameras' eyes are the way to go in a WC. I'm sure one can find a solution where you don't have to stop the game more than it's already stopped by the human referees.

I agree with WebShaman on the ref issue. I don't think cameras will work because of the nature of the sport, and I think that most of the errors this time around could have been prevented if the refs and linesmen had been "professionals." The refs in those controversial games were from countries like Egypt... if Egypt isn't in the World Cup finals, why should their refs be there?

A note on the final match: even if Korea do make it, they will not be playing on home soil, because Japan got the luck of the draw and the final match (Korea got the opening match). That would be a first: the host nation makes it to the finals and has to play in another country. That being said, pretty much everyone in Japan is rooting for Korea. Hopefully this World Cup will help bring the two countries closer together.

I will be going out again this evening to watch the match with my wife and sister-in-law. Let's all hope for a clean, well-officiated match (and a Korean win!). If we lose, and I don't come around the Asylum for a while, fish my body out of the Han River.

My opinion stands.
I just want to add that I do wish Korea wins against Germany. I'd rather see my team face Korea than Germany.
But, if Brazil makes to the final, I do wish Korea lose (if it also makes it to the final).

Actually, my wife has suggested that they allow challenges like they do in American football. Basically, coaches are allowed two challenges (I think it's two) per game. If they think the ref made the wrong call, they can challenge it (except in the final two minutes of either half), and the ref will go over to a video screen and look at the replay from various angles. Then he makes a ruling on whether the call stands or is overturned. If the call stands, the challenging team loses a timeout. If the call is overturned, they don't lose the timeout. You can still only make two challenges a game, whether you win or lose them. And they have people up in a booth constantly watching the videos as well--these are the people who make the call in the final two minutes of either half.

I admit that this system is well-suited to the flow of an American football game (very stop-and-go), but might they not be able to work something out for football? Maybe you sacrifice a substitution if you lose the challenge or something.

My wife also thinks they should do away with offsides. It certainly would increase scoring, and it would reward speed, but I'm not sure about it.

Anyway, I think the first order of business should be simply selecting better referees. Yeah, some nations might be offended, but it's better than what we have now...

I'll be leaving in a half hour to go watch the match (no city hall this time... I don't think I could take that again.). You guys have fun.

Go Korea! Stomp those Germans into the ground!!!!

(I'm not the least bit biased! )

Ok, the game has started...as expected, Khan has saved the butts of the Germans now twice...wherease the Germans have only had one real chance...

And an obvious yellow was not given against the Germans...again, the refs...this could get ugly...

Ok, half-time...interesting game...the Koreans managed to hold off the German offense...they get a big 'kudos' for that...at this point, both teams playing very well, that at least is nice to see...the second half will be a question of endurance, I should think...who wants it bad enough...

Ok, second half, the Germans come out strong...and are putting enormous pressure on the Koreans...the question is, for how long? And with what, if any, effect? The game is definetely heating up...

Well, that's it...1-0 Germany...the winning goal, I am sure.

Korea had enough chances, good-bye, Korea.

Although the yellow card against Germany will really hurt in the Final, I feel that maybe that should have been red...that would have surely have been a good goal chance for Korea...but that's how it goes...at least the refing is pretty decent...

So that was it...as I said, the winning goal. I wasn't very impressed by either team, actually. Korea lost deservedly though.

Wanna win? Score goals. At least the Germans understand that. Can't wait until tomorrows game...Go BRAZIL!!!

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-25-2002).]

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-25-2002).]

YEEEEEEESSSSSS!!! YEESSSSS

GREAT!!

Brazil versus Germany in the final would be great.
But first, we have to beat Turkey tomorrow...

quote:

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Wanna win? Score goals

---

Yep, off course, except when the referies say that is not goal because they are looking the birds flying the field.

You see? casuality that the only match without controvery was lost by Korea?

Ok, wakky, as I said before, yes, I understand your position...could you perhaps open another thread on this? Then we could discuss it fully...without 'muddying up' the waters here...let us at least keep this thread 'clean' in the true spirit of the games...or how they should be...Ok?

Before this Toury Korea was ranked 40th after this toury .. I predicted somewhere between 20 and 25

US ranked 13th .. and I think after this tourny they will either remain 13th or jump two spots .. what are your predictions?

PS .. I think France will drop atleast 5 spots

my only concern is .. with this wonderful turn out from Korea can they keep this intensity .. and continue to win friendly games .. and keep or move up in ranks .. as it is that is the only way to really prove yourself in the world and build upon a great tourny .. it happened to the US .. everyone was happy and exstatic about US going into the second round back in 1994 .. but then they trailed off and hit rock bottom in the last WC .. they have recovered since .. and I honestly think they deserved their spot in the last elite eight in the WC


Click on the Image to go to the Recycling Center .::. cEll .::. 513

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 06-25-2002).]

quote:

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You see? casuality that the only match without controvery was lost by Korea?

---

Thank you for not disappointing me, Wakkos. I knew someone was going to come out and say something like that. I just wish it didn't have to be a fellow inmate.

That being said, I think last night's game was a very fair one, and Korea did have chances to score. They were definitely outplayed by Germany, but if they had been able to pull the trigger on some of those chances, the outcome might have been different. That is still Korea's biggest weakness, of course--shooting. They're very good at creating chances, but with all those chances they've only had six goals in six games.

Our boys we're tired last night, you could see that. They really needed to step up their game, but they just weren't able to, so congrats to Germany for a good game and to Khan for some really nice saves. Surprisingly enough, the mood is still quite good here in Korea. Even after the match ended, people were cheering and fireworks were going off. I think the general mood is that our boys did well and came further than anyone thought they could. I also think that most Koreans realize we got lucky against Spain. It's just very unfortunate that there are people who will now use that as an excuse to go back to looking down on Korea from their high perches.

There is also a sense of relief, if you can believe it. For the past month the wheels of the nation have been stopped, and while it was fun while it lasted, it was getting to be a bit much. I think now things will start returning to normal. There is still a lot of enthusiasm for the third place game, though, and I hope Korea can come back with a good showing to silence its critics.

Looking ahead to today's match, I will be rooting all out for Brazil, because I don't think Turkey can beat Germany (and I think Korea stands a better chance against Turkey). Germany absolutely must lose--they've knocked both of my teams out, and they will be favorites next year. Apologies to any German inmates.

Well, them's the breaks...and the Koreans found out (like the Americans and Paraguay) that Khan is like a mountain...he just stops about everything...but remember, he's only human. With the removal of Ballock, the Germans are in serious trouble for the Finals...he is the only 'real' stormer that the Germans have had in the last couple of games...without him, there is just Khan...and one cannot win without goals (as we have seen).

Personally, I really hope Brazil wins today (actually, there is no doubt in my mind that they will, but anything can happen...). Why? Because here in Germany, the situation between the Turks and Germans is an uneasy peace (to put it mildly). If they both reach the finals...hooo boy! There will be war here irregardless of who wins...

Also, the Germans have managed to 'squeek' by with only one goal per game...(outside of group play)...and that just won't cut it against the Brazil team...the Germans will have to increase their game, something I don't think they are capable of.

Brazil has everything going for them right now...and should they reach the Finals, have all three stormers...and not even Khan will be enough to stop them from scoring...as they proved against England...and Brazil has a chance to be the only team in history to win every game...

Go BRAZIL!!!!!

Kahn

I know that...but the way he is playing in this WC, it's KHAN. King Khan! I don't think that anyone will deny that...

So sorry if you felt offended...however, I think you can now understand my reasoning for it...

Go Brazil!!!!

Ok, the game so far (as I see it...)

Brazil obviously the better team...but the Turks are really motivated...and giving it everything they've got. However, they just can't seem to score...and we all know the golden rule of soccer...only those that score, win. Brazil had more than enough chances, but the Turkish goal keeper saved the Turks...the question is, for how long?

So, half-time, and the score 0-0. The second half looms...I feel that Turkey is about to learn what losing is...however, everything is still open...

Go Brazil!!!!

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-26-2002).]

Oh man, this match is killing me...
Luck seems to be not on our side.

Sorry, u-neek, but I think our spelling fits his dominating nature.

The Turks definitely came out fighting, but I think Brazil has turned the game in their favor. I see it as only a matter of time before Brazil scores. I would be surprised if it ended scoreless, but if it went to a penalty shootout Brazil has to be the favorite.

Come on, I want to see some goals!

[Edit: Don't sweat it, viol. Your boys will come through.]

[Edit: Ahem. What did I tell you? 1-0 Brazil!]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 06-26-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 06-26-2002).]

Yeeehaww! And Ronaldo is the leading goal scorer of the WC! Ya just gotta love that...1-0 Brazil!!!!

Go Go Brazil!!!!!

Man, they have a chance to make history...again. This team could become the all-time greatest team of all...by winning every game...

Ok, Brazil definetly the better team...and have 'kicked it' up a notch in the second half...and the Turks have totally fallen apart...and are turning brutal...hardly worthy of a WC class team. Win with fairplay, or don't play in the first place...

Brazil is going to the finals...



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-26-2002).]

no one wants to talk about Rank?


Click on the Image to go to the Recycling Center .::. cEll .::. 513

Well, Turkey started putting up a fight in the last 15 minutes, but it was too little too late. Congrats Brazil! Next up, Germany!

Of course, I'm more looking forward to the third place match...

Oh man, now I'm really HAPPYYYYYY !!!!
Brazil x Germany, the match of the millennium !!

Ok, talk about rank...not that it really makes a difference in the WC...as we have seen.

BRAZIL is in the Finals!

Go Brazil! Crush the Germans on Sunday...and become the only team to win all games in a WC...

And bring the World Cup back to the Americas...hehe...I can hear the muttered voices here (at work), and see the fear in every eye, the nervous glances...'well, they only scored one goal...yeah, but on Sunday they have all three stormers, and Ballock is out...can Kahn hold those three?'...amazing, the Germans are...nervous, all of a sudden.

And that is good...because Brazil is going to win!!! Go Brazil!

Taking about rank, I've just seen a table of WC hystorical ranking and here are some facts:
- The two countries with more matches in WCs are Brazil (86) and Germany (84) - Italy comes third with 70.
- The two countries with more points in WCs are Brazil (191) and Germany (168) - Italy comes third with 134
- The two countries with more victories (winners of a match) are Brazil (59) and Germany (50). - Italy comes in third, with 39.
- The two countries with more goals scored are Brazil (189) and Germany (176). Italy comes in third with 110.
- The two countries with the best average in scoring goals are Hungary (2.71) and Brazil (2.19). Germany comes in third with 2.09.
- There is also a figure for the best % of "aproveitamento" and I don't know how to translate this to english, something like efficency in the matches played: Brazil comes first, with 74% and Germany is the second, with 66,7%.

Here is the original address: http://www.uol.com.br/folha/especial/2002/copa/ranking_historico.shtml?2
It's in portuguese, of course, but you can figure out some stuff.

I know that these figures are somewhat a natural consequence of the fact that Brazil and Germany (also Italy) are the countries that have participated more in WCs. Brazil with 17 participations (all of them) and Germany (and Italy) with 15.

So, I expect a great match next Sunday.

Brazil is WC!!!!

And the best team of all time...they won every game.

2-0!!!!

So enjoy the next 4 years....Brazil!!!!!!

Yep well done Brazil, a good match too .

//DS

weheeeee

GO BRAZIL GO!!!!!!!!!!

CELL 557

Unfortunately, just one must be the WC. This is what sport is all about. It turned out to be Brazil again and our people is very happy. This country is all celebration today.
Congrats to Germany, you fell stood up.
Too bad Spain and Italy didn't had their fair chance to win.
I'm really happy. Thanks guys.

Congrats to Brazil... that was a fun game to watch. I think World Cup fever is finally dying down over here. Of course, we had some help from North Korea