Preserved Topic: Return of the mighty 20 liners.

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Heh heh heh, are you allowed to use the comma (,) operator to do hundreds of things at once within a single statement? =)

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ok... so we know I know nothing about coding... but I want to see what's
going on with this... so I cut and paste..save the file as html...

open it in IE.. and everything seems fine but when
I enter the hex values... nothing happens. I see nothing. 'page error'
at the bottom of IE window. What have I missed???
thnx



[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 10-15-2002).]

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Got it! As you all suspected the problem was *me.* <lol> I had wordwrap on in notepad,
so I went in and did all the line breaks at the appropriate spots and it works just fine.
But wouldn't you know it... I pick 2 colours that don't want to work.
In PS these hex values are a lite lime green and a pale orange.
But the gradient comes up as a dark green to a dark blue.
ok you won't hear anymore from me in here,
I'll just watch and play from now on. Thnx. <lol>

F58020
A8D051



[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 10-16-2002).]

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Here's my 20-liner... actually, I saved more space than I need to; it's only 13 lines, counting function definitions.

Hey, people, make a 20-liner. It's time we had some sort of regular contest/practice-ish thing here like repeat performance, the sig contest, ps pong, debates, etc. It doesn't have to be perfect, but try something out; even if you can't get it below 20 lines, show your effort. You only get better through practice =)

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Way to go, Slime! And Ini, have you "gone" mad?!
This is freaky shit for a 20-liner, alright.
I love the idea of a competition from which we all could learn, and I'll certainly create a 20-liner as soon as I find the time to do so.
Though that may take like..uhmz, forever .

Anywayz, keep this up, show off time has only just begun

I was thinking something like this, but my thought was more of a 'make a script (or webpage) that does this'

but then I thought that making, say, a javascript text editor that is regexp-searchable, would require more than 2 weeks..

..well, maybe not, but projects big enough to be cool are, um, big enough to be cool...


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

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I updated mine, so it should be much smoother.

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Ok,
I thought I'd give it a go. It was kinda like a puzzle.
First, write the script, then try and make it 20 lines.....
Reading InI's and Slime's scripts gave me the ideas on how to optimize (or is that cheat with ) the number of lines in the code .

First I thought I would try a Fading Text News Ticker as all those out there seem so overly complex for what they actually do.

Next, I just had to pay homage to Doc's Latest Experiment. (have you seen the graphics lately, wow!)

The killer was trying to make it xBrower compatible but anyway here is Orbit
Of course it doesn't have the Doc's great graphics.
The "Sun" is always centered on the browser so try resizing your window & refreshing for diffrnt orbits.

I am thinking of trying to mod the text fader to use opacity.

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Guys,

Are we counting

(condition) ? this : that

as one line?

I've got an idea I'm working on.

. . : slicePuzzle

Yup, that's certainly one line.

Another little trick; make use of the return values of assignments:

diffsquared = (diff=a-b)*diff;

A little obscure, but it works =)

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Roy: Just had a (so far) unrepeatable blip with your orbit20.
I clicked the 'stationary' object and all the orbitting spheres
changed to slim white rectangles with black holes center bottom.
Kinda looked like an orbitting Stone Henge. Tried refreshing several
times but could never gete it to repeat.
Anyway it was fun while it lasted. <lol>



[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 10-20-2002).]

NoJive: Press ctrl+A to do it again =)

Slime: Thanks, works well. Somehow hook those up to an offset
cam and you'd have a pretty neat aerial view of a
carousel/merry-go-round sort of thing.

oh... by works well, I mean control+A works every time
but a 'click' doesn't work at all.

Like your piece there too. Reminds me of that bit
where a magnifying glass is moving across the page of a book,
each word getting larger and then all of a sudden the magnifying
glass moves over a fly. Plenty more than 20 lines in that I'm sure. <lol>

Anyway... fun stuff. Back in my hole now.

[edit] I'm in here doing hard line breaks because there's
code somewhere here that's giving me the horizontal scroll thing.
[/edit]


[This message has been edited by NoJive (edited 10-20-2002).]

Ok, I've found some spare time after all for a quick and dirty 20-liner.
Not much interaction, and not much of a graphical wonder, but hey, it's my first
It's located at http://www.codewarrior.nl/~bladibla/asylum20/popwin/

By the way, I do think we need a restriction on the "var a, b"-technique. I was tweaking and tweaking, and finally found out it's possible to do a "var a=myFunc(param)", and then I realized it had to be possible to create functions and objects the same way. So, the point is every script can be written in one valid line..

Now at first I thought it was neat, but later on I realized it was just lame, so I left it out after all .

NoJive - I did the click thing and it works everytime. You have to click and drag from the stationary dot either upwards or downwards to highlight everything. Also, if you time it just right and get the cursor by starting on one of the moving dots, then dragging a bit, you can select just some of the moving dots... Kinda cool looking effect then as well...

I might just have to figure out something to try and contribute here...

Very cool things so far everyone. Can't wait to see what's next

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Well, at least this is working:

var a=6,newFunc=alert('a'); alert('b'); alert('c'),d=4, func1(),alert('a*d= ' + (a*d));

function func1(){
alert('func1 says hi');
}

And I guess it has to be possible to declare functions on the fly using a = new Function(){ /*instructions*/ }, but I haven't tried that out yet.
Anyway, I do think declaring thousands of vars at the same time is ok, as long as they ain't being used as function calls etc...

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Woohoo, got mine. Gonna upload it in just a sec. It could use a bit of work still, but it's not even close to 20 lines yet.

About writing one long line of code that works, it's very possible. I did that with mine out of curiosity and it worked.

[edit: link: 20 liner
hint: It works best if the window is 255x255. And just move the cursor slowly...
Just one of the bugs I'll fix, hopefully this evening.

And sorry for the pop-ups...

[edit again: Any ideas on how to change the red, green, and blue at once by just moving the cursor?
I've got the x-coordinate and y-coordinate of the cursor changing 2 of the three, but I haven't figured out a way to change all three simultaneously... Maybe, click and hold the mouse and convert the time held into hex for the 3rd value?

[edit: 3rd time's a charm. Fixed all the bugs I found Check the new and improved color changing thing... Not really sure what to call it...
Are we counting "if (condition)" as a line? If so, I hit 21, but I can easily remove the line writing to the status bar. But now it should work correctly in any size window, without the jumping from one end of the spectrum to the other... Nice and smooooooothe now

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 10-22-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 10-29-2002).]

Rule of thumb, at least the rule that I used: if the comma can be replaced with a semi-colon and a line break and still have the exact same effect, then you're not allowed to use the comma.

How about declaring multiple variables?

var a=0, b=0, c=1;

versus

var a=0;
var b=0;
varc=1;

Lord_Fukutoku: If I were you I rather wrote

c=1-(a=b=0)



Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

[This message has been edited by poi (edited 10-23-2002).]

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Well,
I assumed you could use comma only to initialize variables and then only if they were valid variables used elsewhere in the code

var dx=10, dy=10, dz=100*Math.random(), w = document.innerWidth;
var x=dx + dy, y=dx + dz, z = dz + w;

and not
var dummy1=myFunc1(), dummy2=myFunc2() + myfunc3();
which would just cause the 3 functions to be called.

or not
function doNothing() {}
doNothing(a=1, b=2, z=myFunc1(a), myfunc2(a,b) );


If this is not the case (initializing vars) then it may be possible to rewrite mine and "inline" all the variables but I think that would make it harder to read.

Anyway - this is my latest if the comma rule standsDocument Fireworks

Oooo pretty.

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I meant for my words to be taken literally:

quote:

---

If the comma can be replaced with a semi-colon and a line break and still have the exact same effect, then you're not allowed to use the comma.

---

In the case of

var a=1,b=2,c=3;

replacing the commas with semicolons yeilds

var a=1;
b=2;
c=3;

which does *not* necessarily have the exact same effect, since b and c are not declared with the var keyword. (The var keyword says "this variable should only be defined within the current scope"; without the var keyword, the scope of the variable may be larger than the current scope.)

However, in the case of

var dummy1=blah,dummy2=blah,dummy3=blah;

Switching the commas to semicolons is guaranteed to have no effect on the code, since the dummy variables are never used. So you're not allowed to do this; you must make each one a separate line.

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quote:

---

Which does not happen with any parser I could test.

---

I believe it happens when the variable has already been used in a larger scope. For instance, this code

for(var x=0;x<10;x++)
myfunc();

function myfunc()
{
for (var x=0;x<5;x++)
document.write(x);
}

should write 01234 10 times, whereas this code

for(x=0;x<10;x++)
myfunc();

function myfunc()
{
for (x=0;x<5;x++)
document.write(x);
}

will loop infinitely, because the variable x is being shared between the two loops.

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Any browser requirements?

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Here's my contribution to the mighty 20 liners :
3D TOMB II ENGINE DEMO
9 lines of javascript

incredible poi. im speechless.

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Absolutely! I'll make the deadline. I have a question though... what about multiple calls to one function from html elements? Do they each count as one line?

. . : slicePuzzle

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I think Bugs means, that something like clicking button 1, calls function A. Clicking button 2 also calls function A. Do the two different calls count as two lines, even though it's the same line in two different places?

[edit... Deleted a bit...

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 10-30-2002).]

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Yes, that is what I meant alright. I've got a few of those that would put me over 20 so I won't count them

. . : slicePuzzle

I wouldn't count them because "technically" they're
a part of the HTML... Even though the script might
not work without them...

Anyways, InI said earlier:

quote:

---

5) Rely on html.
For example, if you can avoid declaring a variable,
and rather can pass it using a form, use a form.
The more "local" your variables get, the
less lines you'll waste declaring them.

---

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

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http://www.bugimus.com/dhtml/20liners/bugstwentyA.html

. . : slicePuzzle

Wow Bugs, that's an amaging use of a for loop!... I'd never thought about putting that much code into one of them before.

I'll try and make something but It's gonna suck arse compared to what's been done already.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 10-31-2002).]

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Dracusis: your entry doesn't work in IE5.5 ( I don't really care 'coz I understand what it does, and I'll watch it peacefully (at home) with IE6.0 )

*: if the javascript code applied in eventHandler of html tag doesn't count as one line. Then the challenge looses in complexity since you can have some "free" code by putting it in onload or onreadystatechange eventHandlers... :

InI: for variation, I suggest you change the rules somewhat for next month. Maybe increase or decrease the number of lines allowed (increasing it may open the contest up to people with less experience), and provide a general theme (very general, such as "contrast" but not something that's a noun like "puppies") so that it's not the same thing all over again.

Very cool bugs =)

poi: Arr, dude. I haven't entered anything yet. :P

I also agree with slime on opening up the line count a little. I was almost certain I couldn't make anything even half decent in under 20 lines. I still made something but the 20 line thing almost kept me from even starting it.

Although some of the rules are a little silly and I'd even say promote bad coding habits, like this line where I declare my variables:

mouseX = score = pongTimer= (pongOut = 1) - 1 + (pongAngle = 35) - 35 + (speed = 5) - 5

Yuck!... Can't we just ignore variable declarations?

Anyways, Here's my entry:

13 Line Pong Game -- IE 5.5+ only I think.

It's not that great and I still had 7 lines to play with but I'm tired. I might add better angle deflection later (based on where the pong hits the paddle). I might make it a little more cross browser too.



Edit: Actually, I missed the deadline by an Hour. It was almost 1:00am standard time when I finished. But I didn't start untill 9:30pm so I don't really care.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 10-31-2002).]

poi, I thought the event handlers in the html elements may be blurring the rules but I *really* wanted that color bar I originally had a pull down menu which kept me under the limit but looked ugly. I'll see about finding a way to squeeze it in and trying to figure out why it chokes in IE5... and I'm Bugimus btw

. . : slicePuzzle

Perhaps the line limit should be removed entirely, for the benefit of less experienced scripters? I realize it's sort of an important part of the idea, but perhaps changing the idea wouldn't be a bad thing.

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I think I'd prefer no line limit. Just coding for friendly monthly gig is enough for me.

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I think Drac's right, it is fun creating 20-liners alright , but it does decrease the grooviness of the result. I think it's challenging enough to set an early deadline and being forced to use a theme.

Though "tell me a story" is kind of a weird theme(though I like it).

By the way, I guess drac'll probably win the "drag-fun" contest.

Bugimus: sorry Your entry is really cool. And I think I could make a ... remake of PAINT GIFT in 20lines. A quick sight at the source code strengthens my thought

I like InI's idea of having different categories, and why not having theses ones :
.25 lines (not) on a given theme
.unlimited lines on a given theme

Thus the challenge is open to experienced and less experienced coders.

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

Wow, thanks for pointing Paint Gift out, I didn't know you did one of those. It's good how you allow people to send the pics via email.

I was thinking about something similar where I could make mine into an icon generator. People could draw an actual Mac or PC icon and then I would pass the information to a backend program to build the image file and then download it to the user. That could possibly generate some repeat visitors.

As far as the contest rules go, I'll be happy to play with whatever rules there are. I'm not too picky about that.

I think, whatever we do, we shouldn't have *multiple* sets of rules. Pick one set and go with it. I just think loosening or removing the line limit will encourage more people to participate; a theme can certainly be restrictive enough. In addition, people will be able to write the code more naturally and cleanly, which means others can critique it and learn from it if they want. It's a cool idea for those of us who have more coding experience, but the point of things like repeat performance and the sig contest is practice, and a line limit can hinder that.

Yeah, again I'd agree with slime.

Coding a 20 liner was fun and I did learn a lot but it's also made me
do things I didn't want to do. And it forced me not to do a couple of
things that I really wanted to do. Like simple pointers which would
have made my code a lot cleaner.

It's also really hard for less experienced people to forsee something
to code that will fit within 20 lines. Just a deadline and a theme would
be cool and it will hopefull make a bunch of the inmates undertake a
monthly coding project. Somthing that gives us a reason to code full
stop is great for me because I sure as hell need the practice.

Like I said before, I honestly didn't think a pong game was possible
in under 20 lines. Hell, I didn't even understand how to caculate the
angles and move a layer based on an angle before I started it so
learning that alone was worth it to me. It got to about 70+ lines
before I even got it working.

Anyway who's to say that "Under 20 Lines" or "1 linked JS file under 5k"
can't be a theme?

Effectively this month was a "Under 20 lines" theme, and it worked well
but if we're going to have line/size themes as well then we'll need a tight
set of rules defined for them. We could even say that every 6th round is
a "20 liner" theme. Which might make for a good bi-yearly comp and the
other less strictly themed ones could make good practice for it.

Oh, another negative point for the 20 liners would be that less experienced
coders might have trouble even understanding the rules, which would
certainly turn them away. Even I was confsed about weather or not we
could do this:

if (1) {do this} if (1) {do this} if (1) {do this} if (1) {do this} if (1) {do this} if (1) {do this}

Although I was pretty sure that would be cheating.

Oh and we should also make a rule against using [ code ] UBB tags,
cause I hate having to scroll sideways to read a post! Heh. And I
think a requirment should be that you display you entry on an html
page and not just as code so we don't have to cut'n-past it.



[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 11-01-2002).]

I like the idea of having two catagories... An more than that would get confusing, particularly to people just who haven't followed the development of the rules, namely this thread.

But if we had an open catagory, unlimited lines, it would be a lot easier for those of us who haven't been coding for a real long time to get involved.
Then also have a catagory with a size restriction (which could change every month as needed, or as voted on) so we can keep the original idea of the challenge.

Or, as I think Drac said, make the 20 line limit its own theme that we cycle through every few months, 6 months would be often enough to still call this whole thing "The Mighty 20 Liners," but give everyone enough practice in between to have a chance at making something interesting.

Or, here we go... Do the 20 Liner theme every 6 months (or whatever), but rather than have a seperate "theme" for it (or no "theme" at all), we use the last set of themes since the last month we did the 20 Liners. I think that might be open enough to not really restrict anyone, but have enough content to give any of the less creative people (namely me ) a few ideas to go with. Then the months up to the next 20 Liner really would be practice...


Just some ideas...

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

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Ok then, I look forward to it

And since the month is over I thought I'd drop all of the links to this months entries in one spot. 11 in total!

IMHO, 11 top quality scripts. Well done everyone! ~ (I took some liberties with the names)

InI 1: Graident Maker
InI 2: Star Field... warp speed?
Slime: Lense? - eh, cool shit!
RoyW 1: Text Fader
RoyW 2: Orbit
RoyW 3: Ohhh... Arrr... - Fireworks
Nevel: Pop-win-slide-weee
Lord_Fukutoku: And this little pinky had too much acid
Poi: 3D Tomb - Doom III eat ya heart out!
Bugimus: Bugpaint!
Dracusis: Just another pong game

Another idea: A theme every month, and every third month is also a "20 liner."

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