Preserved Topic: Sky Taffy (a.k.a. "GULLWING TEXT")

Well, I finally had time to wite up my version of the gullwing tut...here it is: <a href="http://kublai_khan.tripod.com/dagnabit/skytaffy.html" target="new">http://kublai_khan.tripod.com/dagnabit/skytaffy.html</a>. Let me know how it is!<P>------------------
P.S. forgive the annoying pop-up menu...just minimize it 'til your done<P><p>[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 29-03-2000).]

Whoa, scary. Almost exactly the same steps I used for creating mine in the first place! Great tute, I love it. One thing I would request, save your example images at a higher quality level, I usually don't cut corners when doing my tutes, they may be big for an average web page, but this stuff is *important*. If it's OK with you, I wouldn't mind adding this to the handson archive as a "guest tutorial", how would you feel about that? Full links back and credits, etc, etc... Lemme know, cool?<P>Your pal, -doc-
<P>------------------
----- Doctor Thaddeus Ozone --------- "Specialization is for insects"---
  --- OZONE pages .................................. http://www.ozones.com/
    - Hands-On Tutorials ............ http://www.ozones.com/handson/

That'd be great Doc, thanks! It's encouraging to be able to impress someone of your stature : )
Yeah, I did hone down the jpeg quality a little...I can fix that though. Hopefully I can get my whole page finished finally so that i'd actually have something to link to....<P><P>------------------

Ok, here's a question - I went a step farther and and the orange "borders" on my table, but I have a big orange strip across the top and I can't figure out why! Any idea? <P>------------------

Hey DL-44 you still a maniac? Oh well, I imagine a few more posts and you'll be a full fledged lunatic eh?<P>Good tute. I would like to suggest a few adjustments: consider making the table width smaller so it can acommodate smaller monitors (the one at the office-office is only a 15") and as for your lighting effects screenshot, I can barely see it no matter which display I use...can you enlarge that one please?<P>I'm really looking forward to using your tute this weekend! I'll let you know how it goes, and congrats on being the first handson guest! That's a way cool honor.<P>Thanks!! <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/cool.gif">

Please post the psd when you have a chance.<P>(picky-picky...I know)<P>Muchos gracias

Way to go DL-44, like it bundles. The tutes now sitting on a cd, I'll enjoy creating with it later.
Big congrats on being the first of Docs handson guests - nice one - deserved. <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif"><P>Hey Doc, if your going to have a guest Tute page, how about calling it "Little Ozone Tutorials" after the "Little Ozone Links". What d'ya think??<P>------------------

Yeah, all the example images will be re-done. I was trying to balance quality/file size and came out to far to one side apparently (it was like 2:00 am and I'd had a few to drink...so it all looked fuzzy to me any which way).<P>Any way, I will clean it up and add a .PSD file, and I'll see about narrowing the page. It's a % width table, and the images and the cellpadding should set it to need 680 pixels at it's narrowest -- what resoultion do you use 2wins? 800x600 should be fine but any lower would cause scroll bars. Let me know if I'm wrong about that anyone...k?<P>And of course, I feel really honored to be considered for a guest-tute spot on Doc Ozone's site -- it's encouraging to know that I have reached a point where I know to some extent what I'm doing, with a lot of thanks to Doc himself.<P>
<P>------------------

Okay, I re-did the sample images. It will take a bit longer to download, but it looks *lots* better. I used a different font for the new images, just for variation.<P>
------------------WOO-HOO!!! I'M A LUNATIC!<p>[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 30-03-2000).]

YAY!! Greetings fellow Lunatic! <P>I like the tute much better now, but I'm still not seeing the .psd file(?) <P>Also, could you mention what distortion method you may have used (or combo thereof) to obtain your specific results for the examples on your page?<P>Thanks DL-44. It's folks like you and Doc that make the photoshop world a nicer place to be <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

That's a firm endorsement on 2wins last comment....
I'm glad you got the pics, just hope you like 'em. Took your advice about Tripod, signed up tonight.
Thanks bunches my friend <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif"><P>------------------

For the original version (the header pic) I used the FLEXURE font, and at the very end, just linked my layers and did a "free transform" to scrunch it all down a little. For the example picks I used a pure unadulterated BEESKNESS ITC font. I'm gonna do a couple variations with some distorted text and stuff like that and post 'em at the bottom.
If anyone is interested I'll make a second page to show other peoples versions. Let me know.<P>BTW -- any ideas on my little table anomaly? (the big orange strip across the top that I cen't seem to get rid of)<P>------------------

Hey DL-44, I believe it's this line of code here that's the culprit:<P><table width="95%" cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 bgcolor="#993300"><P>I'll try emailing you direct too.<p>[This message has been edited by DocOzone (edited 31-03-2000).]

Hmmm... it appears that someone has messed up the HTML of the table. I can fix that if people like...

Woah! it's really messed up! Yeah, I think I'll fix that...

Ah ha! When 2WinPapa (or whatever) included his line of code, it actually came out as HTML code. You can only do that in the JavaScript / DHTML forum. Let's see if this post fixes it...<P></td></tr></table>
</td></tr><tr><td>
I hope it does...<p>[This message has been edited by DocOzone (edited 31-03-2000).]

Testing testing 1 2 3

Woohoo! Another thread saved by Slime!<P>No need to applaud, fellas. All in a day's work.<P>Heh...

ACK!! Sorry bout that folks!

We do not accept apologies wins2! you're a LAWYER!!!! accckh hehe kidding. the new tut looks way better DL-44 dude, thankies. Way to go, go ahead and reveal all of Docs' techniques <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif"><P>Never Pet a Burning Dog
Rend<P>------------------

Hey, nice save! Still, with the power of a RAVING LUNATIC I was able to save the thread even further. The broken bit and the fix by slime have been left intact. Slime is hereby promoted to Raving Lunatic, with the ability to edit the posts of others, tinkering all he pleases!<P>Your pal, -doc-
<P>------------------

----- Doctor Thaddeus Ozone --------- "Specialization is for insects"---

<P>That 1st table bit is necessary to make the orange lines between the cells of my nested table (just like this one right here...that's where I got it obviously). I just can't seem to make my second table fill my first table all the way to the top : (<P>Can you help me Doc? <P>------------------
<p>[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 31-03-2000).]

Wow, you made me a raving lunatic? Thanks! I'll try not to abuse my power. =)

OK, got it! All of the "th" tags had "br"'s in front of them, but *not* inside the cell! Apparently Netscape didn't know where to put them, so it put them all on the page, BEFORE that table! Sheesh, that one was a bitch to track down, I finally just went from cell to cell until I spotted it. See my online representation of it at http://www.ozones.com/handson/dl-44/SkyTaffy/ . If you'll give me a line or three of copyeight text and a place to link it back to I'll tie in the link as an announcement on the front page. Lemme know!<P>Your pal, -doc-
<P>------------------

----- Doctor Thaddeus Ozone --------- "Specialization is for insects"---

Whew! Thanks Doc...I was losing my mind -- figured it had to be something that simple, but couldn't find it. I copied and pasted form my first table header, so it got all of 'em.
Only had time to look real quick at the page, on my way to work now. I'll drop a line later -- really appreciate the spot Doc, it'll be great advertising for me. Mighty generous of you : )
BTW, nice save Slime -- you raving lunatic you!<P>------------------

YAY!! SLIME!!<P>If I knew (how) I could have fixed the thread myself I would have....<P>How'd you do that anyway? Sometimes it takes the uncluttered mind of a young person to fix things us older folks mess up!<P>Anyway, you have me to "thank" for your promotion (indirectly) <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif">

Haha, good point. Thanks for messing up your post, then. =)<P>You can see the HTML code that I put in my post now, Doc made it visbile. You had made a table tag, which started a new table, so I just ended the cell that my post was in, ended the table, ended your cell, and began a new row and cell.<P>I've done this before in other forums, beleive me, I messed up badly the first few times. Made the problems worse. But hey, you get better at anything over time. I would say it's like riding a bike, but I forgot how to ride my bike about 3 or 4 summers in a row and had to relearn each time. I still can't do it. But, that's another story. =)<P>-Slime<P>PS: is HTML allowed in the signatures yet?

Thanks Slime I saw that! Way to go...now maybe you should "mess" up and let ME save you <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif"><P>This place could always use another raving looney <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/smile.gif">

Can someone else give the skytaffy tute a go and follow it as outlined. It goes as described right up until the point of the bevel and then *blech* it lacks that same "inset" look that I'm craving (somebody help me!).<P>I wonder if they would reverse my lobotomy it would help?<P>Heck, I'm just gonna up my meds ;-)

I went through and did the tute. What worked for me on the inset look was to do the second part of Step 6 a second time, except I increased and decreased the brightness by 50% instead of 100%. Once I did that I got the inset effect. It helps that once you nudge the selection around to hide the marching ants (Ctrl+H on Win) then you can see what you are doing much better. Just remember to bring the ants back before moving it again, this helps to make sure you are in the right spot. You can keep doing the second half of Step 6 as many times as you need to. Tutes are not "written in stone", they are meant to be changed and played with, have fun.
I used a slightly narrower font (HuskyStash) for my font, and I didn't mess with it at all to make it fat. I think the fatter the better for this effect.
My "quicky" version of Gull Wing can be found at http://innerworld.com/F1_error/f1_gullwing.jpg It's just a quick pic, so no apologies are given. <P>------------------
-I'm not a complete idiot,
there are some parts missing.

Papa -- what he said...I do state in that step to repeat if necessary, and in fact, I did repeat at only 50% as F1 Error stated. BTW F1, nice work on your version. Personally would increase the highlight on the inner portion, but yours does have a different sunken kind of feel. pretty cool. It's overwhelming to see that people are using and discussing my tutorial! And of course...this tute in particular is not written in stone, seeing as it's my take on someone else's work (a particularly generous and talented someone else I might add).<P>------------------

OK I'll giver her a go and let you know what I end up with.

Go for it 2wins... after all, it was you who started it all off <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif"><P><P>------------------

Yeah Phil...shame on me for not coming through sooner huh!<P>Well, I've come very very close to Doc's version, and I may decide to actually use it or may try for perfection (or as close to is as I can get anyway). <P>It almost appears as if Doc used one color (instead of two) for his "sky" color, and it also appears that he may have used the same gold color during his rendering/lightfx stage because his looks just a tad bit bolder....but that's just a guess.<P>I will post the "final" results on my site sometime this weekend...<P>And thanks guys for the 50% suggestion, that was definitely the ticket!

I look forward to seeing that 2wins. In the meantime, check out my humble offerings. http://scansped.tripod.com/cgi-bin/Images_1/Sky_Taffy.jpg
or http://scansped.tripod.com/cgi-bin/Images_1/Stars_2.jpg
....a novices first step<P>
------------------<P>
[This message has been edited by Phil (edited 02-04-2000).]<P><p>[This message has been edited by Phil (edited 09-04-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DocOzone:
If you'll give me a line or three of copyeight text and a place to link it back to I'll tie in the link as an announcement on the front page. Lemme know!<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, been thinking about the copyright text..and I haven't the faintest idea what to write -- things I would normally say seem kind of silly since it's your work I wrote the tute for!?
I'm making a quick preview page to link to, because I'm not quite finished with my major rework of my site yet. I don't get NEARLY enough time to work on it, and I'm trying to figure out some complicated stuff (for me anyway - some DHTML layer stuff). The URL is http://kublai_khan.tripod.com , so use that. It's where my main site will be when I finish it too. Like the look of it on your page : )
<P>------------------

OK....it's as close as I had the time for ;-)
http://www.hypersolutions.com/ <P>Let me know what you guys think!<P>------------------
"I may not be fast, but I sure am slow."

That looks right on to me. I'm just wondering what you have planed to do with it though, I noticed you split it in half. <P>------------------
-I'm not a complete idiot,
there are some parts missing.

Wow, this is great. Nice work Phil, Nate. Do you mind if i put them on a collection page attached to the tutorial? How about you F1? Any one else?<P>------------------

I don't have a problem with it. But if I have the time I might redo it if it's gonna be more for public consumption. In the meantime though, feel free to use it.<P>------------------
-I'm not a complete idiot,
there are some parts missing.

Compared to 2wins and F1, my edges are a little flat.. but if your happy with it DL, it's all yours
<P>------------------

Hey DL-44, no problemo. Give me a day and I will send you one that's not sliced up.<P>
You da man :-D<P>------------------
"I may not be fast, but I sure am slow."

Hey guys....I've updated the skytaffy image and made the rest of the page....oh heck, go look at it if you like! :-)<P>Also DL-44, you can siphon that image from the page if you want to use it on your "display" page.
http://www.hypersolutions.com/ <P>------------------
"I may not be fast, but I sure am slow."

I reworked my skytaffy/gullwing thingy for your use DL. It's at http://www.innerworld.com/F1_error/F1_gull.jpg take a look and tell me what you think.
Again I used a skinny type face and I didn't make it fat. I also did something else a little different. But it's still a similar effect. <P>------------------
-I'm not a complete idiot,
there are some parts missing.

Hey cool F1, I like it. I'll set up a page soon...I swear!
I'm working on getting my main site back up still too...hopefully in a few days? Most likely a bit longer though : (<P>------------------

This thread got a few synapses firing and I remembered a solution I needed to work out a while back. It's not exactly the same as what you appear to be aiming for, but it might take you down another path of discovery. I posted a brief description and some samples at http://people.ne.mediaone.net/s-nelson/GullWing/typesample.html - try it out and add it to your bag of tricks. I didn't want to get chided for skimping on quality, so they're slow to download. But it's really a simple, though time-consuming, series of steps.
Steve

Cool Steve -- I paticularly like the green glassy one.
I used a mask for the rim like that the 1st time I did it, but I could see that Doc had used the brightness/contrast so I wrote it up that way.
Version 5 is the only version I've ever used....so far I haven't really played with levels too much. I'll have to spend more time fiddling with them : )<P>------------------

Slowwwwwwww yeah, but boy was it worth the wait. Nice one Steve...really nice <P>------------------

I'll check it out Steve....<P>Hey DL-44 fraternal raving lunatic brother o' mine, got a question for ya.....<P>In the bevel section of your tute, second paragraph, it reads; "make sure layer 1 is active now..."<P>Does that mean that you loaded the layer 1 selection?<P>I'm after the flatter "sky" layer like in yours and Doc's...mine is a bit to "high" for my taste...<P>
domo arigato gozayomasute<P>------------------
"I may not be fast, but I sure am slow."

Nope. Just means to make sure at that point that you're working in layer 1 as opposed to layer 2 which you would have just been working in.<P>Domo arigato Mr. Roboto
------------------
<p>[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-04-2000).]

Alright DL-44!<P>You know STYX, so that means...well...that you know styx!<P>roger that, 10-4, copy your last....<P>
nani so deska watane<P>------------------
"I may not be fast, but I sure am slow."

Yes, vast wisdom have I. Much bad 80's music I know.
BTW, I updated my little splash page -- my temporary web page while I finish my site redesign. I added a breif description and stuff. If you're interested, here it is: <a href="http://kublai_khan.tripod.com" target="new">http://kublai_khan.tripod.com"</a><P>Ooooops, just found a couple of Netcrap bugs....I'll fix those later, no time now. if you have IE, use that to look at it : )<p>[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-04-2000).]

I like that kindda tute, and I hope it can be downloaded too, you know, like Doc's tutes.<P>I think it would be easier for Madman like to refer to If you make it dowloadable. Plus, I'm very- very far away from U.S... ].<P>You are what you are; I am What I am -- Rick<P>[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 12-04-2000).]<P>[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 12-04-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 12-04-2000).]

Yeah, I'll zip it up and post the zip file. I'm having trouble so far with downloadable things on my site...I think it is my server (i'm on tripod at the moment). I'll see if I can figger it out though : )

Hey, thanks for the mention on the Hands on page Doc -- very cool. I have a slightly updated version of the HTML for the tute -- just some minor cosmetic/formatting changes to the text. I'll upload it to my page shortly, so if you want to take a look and if you like it, carry it over to your page.
Okie Dokie Doc? (say that 5 times fast...)<P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe

okie dokie doc okie dokie doc okie dokie doc okie dokie doc okie dokie doc.<P>Woop! <P>Ooh! I'm dizzy now. I'll pop over for that updated file sometime this weekend, crazy busy time for me, pre-launch blah blah blah...<P>
Your pal, -doc-<P>----- Doctor Thaddeus Ozone --------- "Specialization is for insects"---

lol...cool, cool. Take your time (not that you have any). I have been working the last few days on some new graphics to offer on my site -- I want to make sure that when I actually have everything ready, I have some good stuff! I'm having some trouble with some scripting stuff, but I should be able to work around it (I really don't know what I'm doing with Javascript, but am doing fairly well considering...). I hope to write more tutorials soon, of my own design. i have learned so much from your pages -- although i must say, I fell in love with Lens Flare long before I found hands-On: it was the 1st filter i made regular use of. Before I knew that lightin geffects could do what it does, I relied on gradients with Lens Flares as my highlights : )

Hey DL-44, I wonder since you're having trouble with downloadable's on tripod, if it might be prudent to ask Doc if he would host a zipped tute AND (hint-hint) psd file of your sky taffy tute?<P>...just an idea since he's hosting a mirror of the tute on his domain <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/wink.gif">...<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Well, I guess we'll have to ask Doc about that....(hint, hint).I have the zipped .PSD uploaded to my tripod directory, but can't seem to offer it for download. Tell ya what though papa, you've been waiting and waiting (and hinting and hinting) so I'll email it to you - just give me a moment...
<P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe

Thanks DL-44....I'm scoping it out as we "speak".<P>BTW, Doc...is something going on with the prefs for this forum? I doesn't seem to have my user name and pass stored anymore (2nd time).<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Hey papa -- same thing happened to me: just go to the pref's and log in again, then it'll store your info again. I think Doc did it to appease the guy complaining about someone in his room using his computer to edit his post. Doc's just to damn nice a guy! lol.<P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe

Crap! It's done it again! I did reset the prefs thanks! and it's still behaving oddly...hmmm.... I wonder if it's the latest mac os??<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Behaving Badly. Sounds like every OS I've ever known. Maybe one day we'll get a good, solid, easy to use OS. That is stable and evolves with the user. *sigh* I'll just go back to dreaming.
<P>-I'm not a complete idiot,
there are some parts missing.

Isn't linux like that? But it doesn't support much software, i think...<P>----------
See? Teen guys are interested in more than just girls and food. JavaScript is cool too.

Linux is more for networks and stuff like that. It looks like dos, but with some color, and a lot of tcp/ip commands.
A lot of programs are compatible, I don't know about graphic progroms though, but you can play Quake 3 arena in linux, and it performs better.<P> - Dan -

Hey it kept the prefs this time! I had to delete the desktop and rebuild a fresh one and it seems to be behaving better....<P>It all started out when I installed a 256MB chip into my G4 and when I booted up it attempted to start up and got stuck in a "looping" reboot....ever since I installed and uninstalled the chip *odd* things have been occuring....<P>I may have to reinstall my browser due to inexplicable crashing today!!<P>Usually my OS is ROCK SOLID....I'll continue to investigate and put fires out as they flare up!<P>Anyway...as a "gift" for DL-44 for his help with the sky-taffy tute I want to present this to him as a way of saying thank-you (if you want to use a different bkg let me know or better still, send it to me <P>go here to siphon it:
http://www.hypersolutions.com/lunaticfringe/DL-44.jpg <P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-<p>[This message has been edited by 2winspapa (edited 17-04-2000).]

Ooh! VERY sweet mercury/chrome effect! Love it man, love it! Hmm, thinking, spinning wheels in my little brain, hmmm... <P>Say! I just realized something! I think I must be coming out of my pre-launch funk, I'm starting to come up with some fun new ideas of stuff to do, I've been slumpered lately, and now I hope to have some fun again! FYI. :-)<P>
Your pal, -doc-<P>----- Doctor Thaddeus Ozone --------- "Specialization is for insects"---

Woo-Hoo! pretty cool papa -- thanks.
Can you explain that one to me? most of it's not too hard to figure out, but the really nice sharp crisp black shadows on the inner part....gimme gimme! <P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe

HAH!<P>Yeah it turned out pretty cool eh? I'll post the "recipe" soon cool?<P>Hey Doc! Glad to hear that you see the sun bursting through the clouds again man! Can't wait to see what you've got cooking.<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

If there's enough interest generated in the chrome text I made for DL-44, I will post the action for download....if not then I won't! Simple no?<P> <IMG SRC="http://www.ozones.com/forum/cool.gif"><P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Post it for dear old Dan...
err, me.<P>I just found out I have more homework, I need something cool to cheer me up *sigh* =[
- Dan -

Hey, c'mon now....don't *I* constitute "enough interest"????
Oh, now I get it....trying to play it coooool, right? Wait and see who bites...<P>Oh, hey,shit, nevermind....just got your email. : )<P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe

tsk...tsk...<P>Don't you know that I'm gonna share the love with you first DL-44? I'm your brother, and I got your back covered...<P>so from the last email it appears that you may be experiencing the need for PS 5.5(?) I will test the action on an older version on a peecee and see how it goes...if not...it's called typing the whole thing out...but HEY! you're worth it!!<P>back to being: "I may not be fast...but I sure am slow"<P>:-D<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Yo Dan-O! (feigning nostalia for Hawaii five-O)<P>You'll probably need PS 5.5 since that's what I used to create it...if you have it let me know and I'll give you the pointer for the download...<P><P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

Yeah, I got 5.5
Thanks<P> - Dan -

OK for those unfortunate souls who DON'T have v5.5 here's the "recipe"<P>Nate's Chrome Text Recipe<P>Create new document/transparent
Insert your text
render the type layer
load that selection
save the selection
expand the selection by 8 pixels
cut
paste
hue/saturation WITH colorize
hue: 0
sat: 94
lightness: 52
Gaussian blur 6 pixels
duplicate layer
Offset
horizontal: 5
vertical: 5
fill: wrap
set layer mode to: "difference"
Invert
merge visible
duplicate layer
duplicate layer
duplicate layer
duplicate layer
duplicate layer
duplicate layer
merge visible
duplicate layer
set layer mode to: "difference"
set layer mode to: "multiply"
set layer mode to: "overlay"
set layer mode to: "hard light"
set layer mode to: "normal"
set layer mode to: "color burn"
set layer mode to: "color dodge"
set layer mode to: "lighten"
set layer mode to: "exclusion"
set layer mode to: "luminosity"
merge visible
duplicate layer
Invert
set layer mode to: "difference"
hue/saturation WITHOUT colorize
hue: 57
sat: 0
lightness: 0
merge visible
duplicate layer
invert
set layer mode to: "difference"
duplicate layer
invert
hue/saturation WITHOUT colorize
hue: 180
sat: 13
lightness: -33
merge visible
hue/saturation WITHOUT colorize
hue: 14
sat: 0
lightness: 0
duplicate layer
set layer mode to: "difference"
hue/saturation WITHOUT colorize
hue: 77
sat: 0
lightness: 0
merge visible
desaturate
LEVELS:
channel: composite
inpute: 0, 195
gamma: 0.52<P>Yipee!!! Fun no?!<P>
<P>-I'm back to looking for unique ferret recipes again....-

awwwwwwww........papa! <P>Yeah, see, I have 5.0....and I can't upgrade : (<P>so....umm.....forgot what I'm talking about here, so ....yeah. later ****.<P>What care I how time advances? I am drinking Ale today. -- Edgar Allen Poe