Preserved Topic: A show of hands (Page 2 of 2)

I said "some" people, DL. It was an attempt to politely say, "if you don't want to talk about it or read it, you don't have to" to the people who were getting upset.

Please don't try to turn this into another one of your "grudge matches"... I'm really just curious to what people think. They make points, so I bring up counter points. Other people bring up counter points too, and I try to respond to those as well. This isn't an argument, it's a discussion.

[This message has been edited by Human Shield (edited 08-06-2001).]

After scanning through the above topic, it seems that many people here see the 'creation' (images, code, etc) as being of higher value than the program. To use somebody else's analogy, Images are the completed house and PS is just the lumber.
I would encourage somebody to ask the programmers if they think PS is just lumber. (I assume) They work really hard to create such a wonderful program. It seems that many of the above analogies discredit, or devalue the 'creative' works of the programmers who made PS.
I work for a company that makes software. Granted, it's boring, business software, nothing near as exciting as PS...but our team of programmers here most definately take pride in what they do. To them, the finished product IS the house, not just the lumber to be used by some business.
I'm not saying that all warez is bad, there are some very valid reasons (though still illegal) to obtain illegal software. And Adobe most definately benefits from at least a few instances of stolen software. That doesn't make it any less illegal and it certainly doesn't devalue the very creative work of the programmers who built the software.

Again, I am not making a judgement on whether people should use warez copies of software...that is for each person to decide for him/herself. All I'm saying is that the creativity and hard-work that went into making PS should not be forgotten.
Give thanks everyday to the creators of Photoshop. They have created a masterpiece without which many of our lives would not be complete.

mobrul

Yes, but mobrul, there is a HUGE point here that some of you seem to be missing:

'fred' makes a website. he does it for free, he does it for the benefit of the 'web community'. It is somehting that is unique, it's smoething that is his. Money does not exchange hands anywhere, excpet for him paying his hosting charges.

Someone steals his design, and opens up another site that is identical.

'fred' got ripped off.


'yoyo software' writes a program. It's a great program, used throughout the graphic design industry by proffesionals around the world. it costs lots of money. Millions of people/companies pay lots of money for the program.

A small percentage of people get a hold of an 'illegal' copy, and use the software without paying for it.

Down the road, the vast majority of those people either

a) stop using it, because they have no graphics skills anyway

b)become a loyal customer to the company and buy many things from them.

'yoyo software' didn't get ripped off.

that's the important part. Adobe is not losing money, nor are they in any danger from piracy.

I guess I don't see how 'Fred' got ripped off. He wasn't expecting to make any money off his work to begin with, so if somebody else uses his design, the only thing he loses is the originality of his site, but he doesn't even lose that really, because anyone who knew his site before would just laugh at the copy of it, and any who didn't know of his site before would most likely be told of it by others if they bring up the copied site. If the copier tried to make a businees by claiming he made the graphics, well, he wouldn't get very far having to make his own design later, unless he actually did have some talent. Certainly, 'Fred' could request that the copier pays him for using his material, but that's only if 'Fred' cares about money, which you said he doesn't. Basically, the copier is giving 'Fred' a wider coverage... more people will see 'Fred''s work and appreciate it for its beauty.

Unless there are some other facts about which I do not know....I agree completely.

yoyo software did not get ripped off.
fred did get ripped off.

I play and coach rugby.
(I know this seems off topic, but I am going somewhere relevant...really.)
In the game of rugby there is a law (rugby has laws, not rules) called the 'advantage' law. The idea is this.
If team A commits a penalty, but in the course of that penalty team B gains an advantage that is above and beyond the advantage it would have gained through the normal course of the penalty (referee stopping the match and awarding a penalty kick) the referee may let play continue as if the penalty never happened.
I think this analogy is very applicable.
Team A is warez users.
Team B is adobe.
The penalty is still a penalty (that is, against the laws) regardless of whether the advantage law is being played or not. And simply because Team B got an advantage this time (and Team A was not called on it) does not mean that Team A will not get called next time the infraction occurs...it is situational, to a degree.

And, really, the most important part of this is that the skills of Team B should not be diminished or looked down upon simply because Team A is helping them out by commiting penalties.

I didn't really intend to write on the ethics of warez...as I said, that is up to the individual. My only point is that some of those analogies earlier were a bit flawed. PS is as much a 'creation' as anything Doc or any of the rest of us do.

mobrul

Soccer/football has the same rule btw silly sports

Taxon

quote:

---

we have no need to argue with each other, we're both adults

---

I didnt know 15 year olds were considered adults...but you don't remeber your post do you?



[This message has been edited by Dark (edited 08-07-2001).]

Age doesn't make you an adult, maturity makes you an adult. Let's try to stay mature here, please.