Preserved Topic: Old paper scroll...

You know, those old roll up scroll thingies. Well, I'm trying to paint one in PS and it seems to be going quite well so far. I've only done the top rollie bit but it just don't look as round as it should be.

I started with the base cylinder then worked in the details and texture but it's started to flatten out and I'm not too sure how to fix it. I'm happy with my results and don't really want to start over (read: this took me three frigin hours!). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

http://www.whatever.net.au/~cameron/ozone/paperScroll1.jpg



Edit: It does look like a rolled up peice of paper doesn't it?

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 09-21-2001).]




[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 09-21-2001).]

on the left side of the scroll, show the left side of it, arg hard to explain, show the rolled up part like in a 3d drawing, arg I'll have to draw it to show you, brb



arg, nm I guess my free webhost is down heh

[This message has been edited by Gix (edited 09-21-2001).]

I want it to be a completly front on perspective so you won't really see the edges that much. I'm still playing with some ideas for the scroll spokes/sticks as well so I havent really finished the edges. I'v never tried to paint wood before so I'm thinking it's about time... However, I was mainly refering to how round it looks along the length.

My reference was a rolled up piece of printer paper with my swival lamp positioned accordingly. However, nice clean and white paper doesn't do wonders for shadow references as it reflects off of itself thus most of this has been guess work. I've found some other source material on the net now and I realise that my colours may be a bit off but I can always fix them later. It still looks more like a piece of rolled up paper that Kret's sat on to me. I've tried playing with the shading/contrast/brightness but I just can't seem to make it look big and fat and round.

Edit: I might get away with saying that skipping some two letter word it a typo but a whole sentence.. My keyboard's obviously buggered.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 09-21-2001).]

On round edges, the darkest part is not generally the outside edge.. let the light wrap around the edge a bit the simulate the part you can`t see. Lets your eye *see* what`s not there.

Did that make sense to you ?



On the cutting edge of the downward spiral of society

Eye has a cool Declaration of Independence scroll as a pseudo-sig right now.

I asked him for a few tips on how he made it, but he never responded.

Maybe he didn't see my request, and I can use this opportunity to ask again!

attempt to be of some help for once #2:
I think the shadows, lights/darks are perfect. How about burn up the edges of the scroll a little bit, make it jagged, and show some scroll sticking out of the edges that would be more toward the bottom. and for the wood, its pretty easy, for the texture I did a few posts down, I rendered some clouds, with a light brown and a dark brown for the colors, used the dry brush filter, then distort/shear to get the grain effect, from there, dodging, burning, and some air brushed color should get just about any look you want (and of course curves). I think the scroll will "pop" pretty good from your perspective with some of the edges sticking out, and with the wood scroll stick thing. tassles can't hurt either.

contrast contrast contrast.

You have a flat gradient right now that's relatively even right across the board. Bobbo was bang on saying that light bends around the edges of a cylinder seen on the flat, however you also need to conside that you're trying to create depth. Depth requires shade and highlight, and sharper depth (the closer to the edge, the more horizontal your plane of viewing of the surface is) requires deeper tones.

So, the gradient idea is great, but lets tighten it up..higher highlight, lower lowlight, and then keep working that texture. Also ditch any backshading right now, you need more perspective on your shadow considering your lightsource angle. The rest looks really good, but I agree it's too flat, due to your tonal values right now, so get on it

Hope it helps.

Peter.




ICQ:# 10237808

I did a double ended scroll in flash a few years back, its fairly bloated but mabye it will give you some ideas
http://www.moaiz.com/laboratory/scroll.html

I would say the texture on the scroll and how you treat the visible edges would really contribute to the realistic appearance of that scroll.

Wow! Thanks for all the responses! I wasn't expecting this much quality feedback....

Bob, DG: I think I understand what your trying to say there DG but the trems you used are a little lost on me (read: I never went to art school). Higher highligts and lower lowlights meaning to work more contrast into the overall 3D shape. In addition are you saying that the shading/lowlights should fall off more steeply towards the edges (thus expanding the lighter tones across the top of the scroll) to provide more depth.... Anyways, I'll assume that's what you were saying and I'll get stuck into it... oh and thanks Bob, DG.

Oh and the background shading was just a quick afterthought before I posted the pic. I'm actualy working with a 50% grey background as it's easier for me to judge colour variations, is this a good idea or should I be using a white background???

Gix: You been reading my mind? Heh, Yeah, I like those ideas and was thinking much along those same lines myself, think I'll go check out that post you mentioned, it's sounds interesting.... Thanks for the help.

Moaiz: That's sweet!, kinda what I'm aiming for with this but it's a long way off yet. I also realised that my overall colour and texture is a bit off. Thanks for the advice and the inspiring pic. Did you paint that or is it a 3d render?

Again, thanks all, you've been a great help. I'll come back and post my progress soon.

Drac.

DL: Was my link broken or were you playing bandwidth police again. heh, either way, thanks for stickin you nose in to fix things up.

um I painted it, yeah...I am cool like that...
Actually its a 3d render, I made the paper texture for the scroll and some bump maps for the end rolls to give it a crinkle look but everything but the 3d objects were done in lightwave. It was supposed to be much more than it is but I procrastinated and then I decided I didnt want to finish it. If you want to see the raw PSD with masks that I had before I dropped it into seperate .png files you can check it out here. I dont remember where I got the paper texture or if I made it, for some reason I cant find it anymore. Good luck.

Drac - for the record I was playing bandwidth police. The 1st time I looked here, I waited (truly) 10 minutes, and it never loaded....so I made a link. Of course, I fucked it up the first time around....so a few of you may have seen that

As far as the image, pretty much look at what DB and DG had to say....the most important concept behind rounded 3D objects - the darkest point is *never* the edge - the light wraps around the back, so the very edge lightens back up.

Also, eyezaer just made a scroll sig....maybe he can add some insight to this...

Arr right.....

I've haven't really been doing that. I just opened PS for a couple of min's to play with the dodge and burn tool to try you suggestion out and It realy helped.



Of course, that's just a 2 min job but I understand more of what DG and DB were saying now. Thanks DL.

Edit: oops! Wrong pic! fixed now.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 09-22-2001).]

My word, Stanley....I think this boy is getting it.

Looks good drac, just a few random crinkles, and maybe the odd stain, and she looks like an aged scroll. Your depth work is looking a lot better, keep working it. Right now your scroll looks like it's under an intense white light. Nice, if that's what you're aiming for

Great work, I can't wait to see what you do with the end pieces when setting a bit of perspective

Peter

Just posting My Progress...



Thanks again for all the help and feedback I've recived so far. I appreciate it.

Edit: Damit! wrong image again...

Edit 2: err.. That little wodden spoke just looks odd doesn't it. Arr well. It still not finished yet. Maybe I'll hunt around for some images of wodden poles.. Hang on! where's my broom stick!......

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 09-22-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 09-22-2001).]

SHARPEN THAT SHIT UP, SOLDIER!!!!

It's looking good, Drac..but you need to take some of your "softer" grades out of the paper and the wood as well. What you've got now is starting took a bit like the claymation version of a paper scroll Give it some angular cuts and less soft blends. Sharp highlights to a torn edge makes the paper look thin, dried, instead of thick and rubbery.

The wood itself isn't bad, but the "deep" cuts look odd. Again, play-doh looking. Try some colour variation in it, and shallower scratches...nice, subtle texture for wood sticks.

Still loving it, keep going man.

Peter

Just another quick progress update...

Yep..we're getting there

Wood still looks a bit "clay-ish" try bringing down the highlights, and softening the dark brown colour a bit..remember, it was a stick, not a log with bark

The paper is just about bang on now. A bit of work on the top and bottom left of the rolled part (the shadows look a bit uneven there on the texture) but the rest is damned purdy.

GO BOY...GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Peter

Lookin really good, Drac. paper looks great, on the wood, maybe a bit more texture detail and color variation to firm it up.

Great job, man.



Why, yes. I was raised by Apes. How did you know ?


<edit> damn, you type fast, Peter</edit>


[This message has been edited by docilebob (edited 09-23-2001).]

C'Mon !!!!! i want to see more updates !! lol