Preserved Topic: Semi-Random Sketches (Bandwidth killers :) )

There is a back-story behind these: I'm supposed to be doing a comic book in Cartooning, but have a problem: I don't have characters! Well, my comic does, but I don't have the required "concept" drawings of them (She acts like its a big serious project, like it's gunna be published or something, which it definatly won't, cuz I'm a shitty drawer *sigh*). Anyways, I just pulled out some sketches from a while ago, inked them (I can't ink either ), and layed them out as my "charcters." The last one is just a light sketch that I did in histroy (It has horrible anatomy, and doesn't have ANY style at all). Here they are: I'd appreciate some C&C.

Won
Too
Tree
For
Phaiv

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 12-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 12-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 12-17-2002).]

Ok, before getting to the work itself, lets address this -

"She acts like its a big serious project, like it's gunna be published or something, which it definatly won't..."

Irrelevant.

Be happy you have a teacher who treats things like comic books with such importance. It may be hard to see how it matters, but treating this like it is a real project that will be published is the only way you'll develop any of the skills needed to actually get anywhere in such a field.

Ok, so the work itself -

Overall, I have to say - not bad. They really are a good start.
The base drawings of the 1st 3 are actually rather good.

What you need to do when you get to the inking stage is to SIMPLIFY a great deal. As it is, they are a bit scribbly. The best way to go about this is very slowly, working first ONLY on the absolutely essential lines. Then go to some of the secondary lines...keeping as simple and as solid as possible. Don't scratch your pen around simply to add "something" when nothing needs to be there.

It's far better to suggest than to overdue...you can always add lines, but you can't take away.

Are these going to be colored? If so, are you going to be doing the coloring as well?

If so, then even more reason for less ink...

So, to recap - off to a good start. Base drawings are good. Clean them up, and SIMPLIFY your lines. Reduce.

=)

haven't got too much to add here, sorry - but as usual, jamies advice is sound.

just thought i would tell you that i really liked numbero tree, that's some really nice work there. perspective overemphasis always rocks in cartoon style pics.

Wow! Thank you...That was much better commentary than I expected. I guess I just have low self esteem, or something. Yes, I am coloring them, but the lines don't interfere since I'm doing a wash with Goauche. I have the girl colored.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

"Black is an outline...everything else is just shade"

Best advice I ever got when it came to working with pen and ink for comic style artwork. I learned to simplify my lines, and stop drawing IN what wasn't there in the first place.

So what advice can I give that Jamie hasn't covered? Anatomy, Anatomy, Anatomy.

Too many people overlook studying anatomy with this type of artwork, as they brush it aside with "Well it's exaggerated and falsified anyway." Yes it is...but what you'll notice with really great comic artists is that they know how their figures are connected, the boning, the structure, the muscular overlaps...so that they can break those rules effectively and create dynamic artwork and poses.

Your anatomy isn't bad right now, but it's stiff, and a bit oversimplified. How do you fix that? Study study study...sorry man, it's the only way. Sketching from life is great...the "Dynamic Drawing" series of books by Burne Hogarth is great...Gray's Anatomy is great...even something as oddly useful as Drawing Comics The Marvel Way with Sal Buscema is wonderful

Jamie's right...the base is good...the drawings are scribbly and overstate a bit...and you're ready to keep going So keep going. Let's see more while you're learning the rules to be broken.

I am currently studying anatomy, but it wasn't worked into these sketches. I've been doing (more referance drawing) than anything else. Jsut my luck though, my Mom thinks that people shouldn't learn that since it involves drawing/painting nudes. My God. I pretty much have to keep it secret which doesn't help. Damn.

Anyways: Thanks for the tips, and I'm practicing and working.

Hmm, looks like her hand is overextended/too big.

Could someone please point out the anatomy mistakes that hvae been made though?

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 12-17-2002).]

Picture One: His right leg (our left) shows a gastroc bulge (calf muscle) that's sticking out to the side. If you study legs, you'll notice that the outside of the calf is a gentle curve, not a bulging muscle. The muscle structure is long and almost straight on the outside compared to the inner leg. Dig? Check it out a bit. You don't need it to be perfect, but it sticks out as moticeable from the get go.

Two: The centerline between the legs has to fall as a centerline to the body...which is a centerline to the face....If it flows as a curve, that's fine, but keep in mind that it will always be a curve...not three disjointed straight centerlines You've put his knees at different heights which makes him seem hobbled somehow. You've also put him holding his arms behind his back (usually a sign that you're afraid to draw hands..that's an insider tip ) It's a good pose, but keep in mind that the foreshortening would then show th globe of his shoulders, and the globe of his biceps farther down and "back" and the then the shotening of his forearms. Right now it looks like his shoulders are dislocated.

Three: Her left knee is broken...heh. A leg can bend inward at the knee, but it usually sweeps a bit, not coming to two converse angles. It looks a bit snapped. The knee height thing is here too, but not as prevalent. Remember to keep your limb lengths in mind. Draw a guide if you need to (ie: Codex.) Fingers are different lengths...they fall in an arc, even when wrapped around a gun grip. Putting them on a flat plane makes her seem like she's been using the band saw a bit too much. Practice drawing curves starting at the highest point as the middle finger, and then sweeping back to the pink, and on the other side sweeping over the index. Look at your hand

Four: Nose issues...a nose is a construct of simple shapes...that's going to be practice practice practice. Simplify like Jamie said. Draw what's seen, not what you THINK needs to outline a nose.

Five: Jaw is good...the eyes are set at angles to each other. One would be looking down, while the other looked straight ahead. Poor bastard..almost as bad as being cross-eyed. The only other issue here is the length of the nose. Want a bit of a tip? As a guide, the old rule for comic folks is that the length of the nose (from eyeline to tip) should be about equal to the distance between the eyes. So imagine how much of a gap across his face he would have if that were true here. SHorten your nose lengths, work the curves, but notice what's really THERE, and not what you THINK.

There are other issues, but again...it's good base work. It's a GREAT start. Keep going...and see what sort of literature mom WILL let you get. Burne Hogarth's series on Dynam ic Drawing doesn't deal in depth with nudes...or rather it does, but hey..no nipples.

~smirk~

Wow...Thanks a lot DarkGarden. That was a big help!

Actually, I've been working at school on anatomy: starting with the arm, leg, shoulder, crotch, pelvis, chest etc then compiling them into one drawing. Mom doesn't know about this . Anyways, thanks again. Number won has his shoe/lower leg at an odd angle.

PS: I am afraid of hands. I haven't done any studies on them yet, and feet. As you can see from my drawings, I always found a way to hide them. Same as feet, except I can't hide those.

At least I got the general shape of things. Practice. Actually, I don't mind practice. I got a little bit of lee-way luckily in the class, my teacher is letting me work on figure drawing/anatomy/drawing etc instead of doing another short comic. Yay! Of course I think that I have to be (My God you say) the most mature guy in the freaking class, because every guy except for one has gotten up just to freaking stare at the anatomy pictures. I'm like: Get the fuck away. Then I get in trouble for studying anatomy because it's not a high school subject. I said: "My God" to that also. But, as long as the administration doesn't know, it's all good

Anyways: Enough of me rattling on. Thanks!

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

I have to say that I'm genuinely impressed. Follow the advice given and you'll improve signigicantly.

I tryed to simplify the inking and work on a diffrent style of shading. Random classmate used as a referance.

Sichs

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

Fixed Link to Sichs (Two)

I know the ear is much too high, and the brow goes inward too fast, but I was mainly concerned about testing out the: Minimal inking technique and using a diffrent style of shading to give it a chisled look.

[This message has been edited by counterfeitbacon (edited 12-18-2002).]

quote:

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PS: I am afraid of hands.

---

Hands? How could you be afraid of hands... They are right there, in front of you. Look at them!
The hands and the eyes are the most important part of the body IMO, sometimes worth more than the person they are with.

Get your paper, get your pencil. Set the pencil down, and with your writing hand, raise in the light, and look. Look at the depth, the light, the joints, the creases of the skin and fingers, the muscles, the knuckles and the spacing. It's all there.

This was my first painted hand, (I am sorry I didn't scan in some sketeches but maybe this can still help you). It sucks. The fingers are too fat, I am missing the pinky, the lighting is wrong, the wrist has no depth, and the fingernails aren't the correct color.

This was something I did a few weeks ago in about 20 minutes just for fun. I much liked the result of this. Though it still isn't perfect, it is closer to a hand than my first. The only major flaw I can see is the layer of skin between the index finger and the thumb, it doesn't go in enough and looks as though its bulging out. However, I painted that by looking at my hand everytime I questioned the appearance of my piece. Just look at your hand. Take time to draw hands in many angles, styles, and lights. I hope this helps.


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

quote:

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How could you be afraid of hands...

---

Well, because - as your images indicate - hands can be very difficult to properly render. There's an awful lot going on inside your hands, and that makes the outisde very complex.

Obviously, you can't let that stop you from drawing them, or else you'll never get it, but they can certainly be intimidating at first.

Well I forgot to insert the : rolleyes : slimie after that quote giving the feel of humoring sarcasm . Oh well hehehe...

uh...right. whatever. I remember why I don't bother responding to you now...

InSiDeR: I have no problem drawing hands when it's just. well, a hand out there in space, but putting it onto a character is another thing. I've been working on it, starting with basic shapes and rounding it out. I hope to put the painted peices up here pretty soon.