Preserved Topic: Astral projection

just wondering about others thoughts on the subject.

i've been studying it for the past year or so and have many ideas to discuss on it. such as is there a relationship between the subconcious and the spirit? i mean, we know the concious mind controls the body.from what i've been researching, it seems the subconsious mind controls the spirit. now there's times when the subconcious controls the body (i.e. sleepwalking), so can the concious mind control the spirit?

also, do you think that the body's strength has anything to do with the strength of the spirit. what i mean is, if you have a strong body, as in muscular, does that in any way effect how strong the spirit is?

as i said, i've studied this for about a year or so and many questions arise, questions i find it hard to answer using google <grin>. so any input or thoughts would be ever so helpful to me. thanks.

~Sir_KiTree~Scan~

I think someone's been reading a bit too much Shadowrun...but that's a good thing.

i've never even heard of Shadowrun. what is it?

~Sir_KiTree~Scan~

It's a series of scifi books set in the 21st century (about 2050).

In it, there are mages whose magic allows them to use astral projection, that was the basis of my comment.

I've played the ShadowRun RPG. Lot's of fun. Nothing like being a physical adept troll with killing hands and an impressing stealth skill. Sneak behind some gunner and snap his neck with one hand.

But that's a bit too OT. Carry on.

This is probably too deep for most people, but I have good reason for my beliefs... not just blind faith. My beliefs are constantly evolving as I consider new evidence. But here's my take.

The spirit is in control of everything. Your spirit is like a superset of your consciousness. It exists before and after you die... in fact, it exists in a realm where time is meaningless. Your life is created as an aspect of your consciousness. You are born with a mind and body that are connected to your soul, but with no memory. Your soul gives complete control of your body to your mind. So yes, your subconscious does control your soul, but this is by the soul's design. The meaning of life is to see how well you can deal with life with a certain set of limitations. In order to attain this, your soul relinquishes control to the physical mind (which starts out as a blank slate), so that you can identify yourself and your problems as your identity. If you physically knew what your soul knows than physical life would be pointless to you because any possible outcome is completely okay (ie. Zen Masters). The finite nature of life, and your perspective from inside your body is what gives life meaning.

The strength of your body has to do with your spirit... but I think the word 'strong' has a far too physical connotation to apply to the spirit in meaningful human-being terms. Your genetic make-up and physical characteristics are chosen by your soul to be experience for one reason or another.

To answer your most important question, can the conscious mind control the spirit, I assume you are talking about astral projection here. Well, I believe with enough practice and no small amount of talent it would be possible. But it's not so much your consciousness controlling your spirit, but your conscious mind relinquishing control TO your spirit. I can't really offer any advice in this camp because I haven't gotten into any meditation or things like that. Part of the problem is that words are human constructs that form a hard layer between your mind and your true intuitive knowledge.

Zen Koans attempt to guide the student to a point where they can be in touch with their soul by using seemingly non-sensical statments. The purpose of which is to illustrate that no meaning comes from matter. It's the other way around, all matter comes from meaning (aka consciousness, your soul, etc.).

I think it would be fascinating to get into meditation and try to achieve some of these things, but I am still very pre-occupied with physical matters, and I know when I die that I will experience it to the fullest, so I don't focus on it a lot.

-jiblet

anything im about to say u have to take with a grain of salt cause its hollywood astral projection.
In Season 2 of Charmed Prue got her second power which was Astral Projection. Recently in Season 3 they actually did an episode dealing with how Prue always squashes her own desires and wants for the better of her family and finally her astral form took over and begin living a wild life which interrupted Piper's wedding (they actually did make references to the Ego and ID sections of people's character thru Phoebe's psych classes and she gave a whole lecture on how Prue had pushed herself so hard that her inner being had to break free) so in saying if you take any of that as realistic then a person's spirit can control their bodies and vice versa.

Shadowrun's Lame IMO... Havent played it for years though. Do I want to talk about AStral progection.. Narr.. I'm not that sad.. I'll talk about RPG's instead

Atral projection also appreas in many RPG's. Just to name A few of the top of my head:

Shadowrun
Rifts
Gurps (I think one of the gurps books had AP rules ?.?)
Cult
Call of Cathulu <--SP?
Beyond the Supernatural.
Heroes ?? i think..
Pladium (the AD&D Era books)
Amber (Well it had similar things, you were playing god's after all.)

In fact, all Pladium system RPG's that had psychics (Except Ninja's & Super Spies) had Astural Projection.

Do I believe it can be done? Yes. Would I try it? You couldn't pay me enough money. Don't screw with things you don't understand.

Chris

KAIROSinteractive

First of all, thank you very much for your perspective jiblet. It gives me some new ideas to contemplate. And fig, a question for you: if we 'don't screw with things we don't understand', how are we ever to understand them? Now maybe somethings are better left untouched, but how are we to know that unless we've experienced it for ourselves?

As for the RPG's mentioned, i'm going to look up Shadowrun, but that won't be until i'm threw kicking Baal's butt in the Diablo2 expansion. My Druid's to the Expansion town already!! I just got it last thursday. But enough bragging<strut>. i'm going back to it.

Also wanted to mention (to jiblet mostly, and it kinda ties into the hollywood aspect thinger ACharmedOne brought up) do you think that it's important to adhere to those things that you need instead of your wants?


-::sig file on underway::-

~Sir_KiTree~Scan~

I have enough knowledge of it from friends' very bad experiences to know that it's something I have no desire to experiment with. Simply put, spiritual things are either from God or they're not. And that's not.

Chris

KAIROSinteractive

Anyone know Carlos Castanada...............this is a cult question from the 70s that evolved around some interesting people who could and did project conciouse energy into this time dimension............and wrote of there exoeriences

but you all dont want to know what i think.........................

I agree with those who found time to explain the spirit..............its no doubt lost with this click....but..a good topic.

Lets see how fast the locals can ruin this thread.....................

needs instead of wants? Well, hopefully your needs are taken care of if you're chatting on an Internet forum

If you mean do I think you should ignore your physical wants once your most basic needs are taken care of, well, that depends on your goals. Some gurus will nearly starve (some probably have actually) because once they reach nirvana physical needs seem as unimportant as other physical matters.

Physical wants are a part of being human, so unless you have decided that you ONLY care about spiritual matters, then there is no reason to forsake your physical wants. On the other hand, if you feel like your life is 'cheapened' by consumerism then focusing on other things could definitely be of help.

If you are sufficiently open to your soul's suggestions, and don't let your judgement be clouded by social norms and conditioning, then you will know what's the right path for you. Remember that your life is a scenario chosen by your soul to act out and learn how to deal with different problems. Consumerism is probably the defining aspect of today's society.

To go a little deeper on you, there are fundamentally 2 emotions: Love & Fear. Any feeling that you have can be traced directly or indirectly to one of those 2. A good decision is one based on love, and a bad decision is one based on fear. Many people try to dispute this by citing some simple example, but the fact of the matter is that if you make a decision without any fear or love influencing it in any way then you are choosing randomly because you really don't care.

So my advice would be to contemplate all your actions very carefully, and only do those things which you are doing FOR THEIR OWN SAKE. Don't do something to hide from or avoid something that you don't like.

Heh Drac... talking about RPGs is less sad than talking about Astral Projection? :P

-jiblet

Jiblet:
"You are born with a mind and body that are connected to your soul, but with no memory."

The mind is not a blank slate when you're born, it already contains hard-coded, but very basic information. Also know that your actual birth is nine months earlier than the moment you slide out of your mother's womb.

"The finite nature of life, and your perspective from inside your body is what gives life meaning."

Now that is something I can agree with.

"Your genetic make-up and physical characteristics are chosen by your soul."

Your 'soul' (a.k.a. personality) is determined by your genes, and in turn, your genes are dictated by your parents genetic makeup. You could say that 'you' were present in the world as a 'separated being' before you were merged into one entity by your mommy and daddy doing the wild thing.

"I know when I die that I will experience it to the fullest,"

When you'll die, you'll be effectively dead. Your consciousnes isn't a seperate entity that is locked into the body, but rather, it is a result of the activity of millions of braincells in one lump of brain. You are a pattern. Your personality does not exist as a (non-)physical object, but as an ABSTRACT one. You're a pattern-object, just like a drawing, the data in your computer's RAM, and the story in a book.

When you turn off your computer, it actually dies. The data stored in the RAM (which equals to your own brain) goes off into nothingness. This is a common characteristic of all patterns, they can be created from nothing, and they will eventually dissapate into nothing.

"Remember that your life is a scenario chosen by your soul to act out and learn how to deal with different problems."

My life can, at times, be predictable, but it is not layed out 100%. It cannot be predicted or known what I will do 5 years from now.

Subconsious, soul, spirir, mind...they don't exist. There is only YOU, and YOU know yourself in various degrees. The more you know your own mind, the more 'conscious' you are. Knowing your own thoughts also helps to control your body, most of all your reflexes.

Drac, I played SR 1 & 2. Liked SR 2 because a lot of stuff was streamlined and less complicated. I heard about SR 3, but I quite the SR scene well before then. And a lot of positive/negative things about RPGs has a lot to do with the GM. Go figger. (I played Paranoia once and the GM for that session was *awesome*.)

I don't know about Heroes, but I do know that Champions has astral projection. It's listed as a possibly too power for gameplay power. Use with caution because the game could become severly unbalanced.

Don't know for sure about the rest, but I am fairly positive Call of Cathulu does(did).

I had several OBEs in my younger days. It was something else, except when it happened on accident in school. I was big into meditation and discovered OBEs by accident. I was so big into meditation that I could enter that state in well under a minute (great when bored in study hall). The good ol' days.


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I, Warjournal, Techincal-Slop Author Extraordinaire.

In response to the astral projection question, yes I think it is possible and can be done. I want to try but their is that possibility that maybe I won't return to my body when say maybe a fire starts in my room, and thus my physical self will die. I personally think that the conscious mind can control to spirit, and that is exactly what you do when you leave your body and travel into the astral plane.

A strong body does not equal a strong spirit in my views. You could be Mr. Universe but your soul is nothing but a helpless pool of life, and that's because you took more time to focus on you body than on you spirit. You need to do both.

Ok, that was just what I thought...

William + Will (Bill) => Billiam

~Sir_KiTree~Scan~,

Not to put a damper on your studies, but if astral projection was possible don't you think someone would have been able to demonstrate it in an undeniable way by now? Have you ever heard of the Amazing Randi? If you work very hard and actually learn how to project your "entity-ness" onto the "plane of stars" you stand to make a cool ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Best of luck!!! Really.

Bug, if I could do it and give undeniable proof, I wouldn't go see Amazing Randi. Sure, I would gain $$, but I would loose so much more in doing so.

quote:

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its no doubt lost with this click....but..a good topic.

Lets see how fast the locals can ruin this thread.....................

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ding ding ding ding!!!!

we have a winner!!


(oops, I posted again without regard to the topic ! umm, here: astral projection...nope, not something I buy into.)

warjournal, seriously??? Do you have something against Randi? He does some excellent work around the world exposing frauds and such. I can only assume you think you would lose your dignity or something, I'd be interested in hearing a bit more explanation.

But if you really could do the the astral projection, would you at least demonstrate it to, say a trusted friend or someone who could verify it to the rest of us?

before telescopes, the supposed "fact" was that the earth was the center of the universe.. it may be that astral projection and the astral plane exist, but we have no way to effectively measure or observe or record the phenomena..

i know a friend who died on an operating table, but was revived and she says she was always conscious.. so where was she after she died? she can describe it, but not having been there i have no way to verify her reality.

astral projection may be called hallucination, but just because we haven't experienced it or maybe we experienced it but didn't recognize we were experiencing it, does not mean it doesn't exist.

as true as that is velvet, the reverse is also true: just because you've (generic 'you') experienced something - and are someone who is apt to believe in certain types of 'paranormal' events - doesn't mean that it wasn't just a hallucination.

not being argumentative there, just pointing out the other side

Oh, no. Nothing against Randi one bit. He does excellant work. Why, I'm almost a fan. That is, I like his work, but I don't really follow his career.

First, that happened to me was years ago. Not gonna happen again anytime soon. So, no luck with me.

Here's something taken from a long ago conversaton:

quote:

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Those who comprehend what I've just stated, fully realize that such abilities, attainable by almost any healthy human being (provided he puts forward conscious effort), and their benefits, far outweigh any material possession. That being said, it is without much sense to gain material wealth keeping in mind long-term effects, not even taking into consideration recognition by the media.

I do not put much care in other individuals knowing about this so-called ?power? as I know that they can acquire "it" themselves [RV is just one of the many abilities that can be attained]. It is only the media, the establishment, that I would worry about as it would bring unnecessary problems upon my shoulders. That I do not need. And regarding your statement about James Randi's challenge, his $1 million prize, I hoped that a person of your intelligence would understand more the nature of our current society and that taking upon such challenge and succeeding, would bring only misfortune to the one(s) who undertake(s) it.

It is only after I?ve grasped the behavior people exhibit in a materialistic society that I understood why a person would feel as he or she, in any way, needs to "prove" him/herself to another person. Before then, it was hard for me to grasp and that is why I still find it illogical to feel as I need to prove anything/myself to anybody. If one had acquired abilities, which most gather as "paranormal" (with which, the label, I strongly disagree as quite simply, there is no "paranormal" phenomena that exists), one uses them accordingly, filtering one?s choices through one?s own set of morals and ethics. One possesses free will and no other person has the right to violate that will. One chooses by themselves and therefore no one else?s opinion matters. Not even mentioning someone else?s beliefs or morals.

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The second paragraph mostly. Rest I just tossed in just because.

warjournal,

Got it. I understand better and I accept that *you* wouldn't go to Randi with such ability. That being said, wouldn't it be probable that someone *else* would have no trouble picking up that million? There are quite a few people who claim to be able to do this. I know someone personally who told me he's done it (but refuses to do it again for some reason).

Ok maybe I need a refresher here, help me out. Does astral projection allow one to bi-locate at least in part? If it does, then it can certainly be proven without doubt by conducting an experiment. The person would sit in one location while being monitored. Then he/she would project their consciousness to another predefined location and report on what was happening there. With the proper controls and by repeating this experiment, it could be proven to be genuine.

The Question for anyone here who believe's this ability exists is why hasn't this been done yet? There must be some who have the ability that are willing to share it with the rest of humanity and brave the ripples it would create.

Thats simple.........2 different dimensions..ones at the molecular level while the other is in the energy level.

How can you make energy molecular.......you cant...so astrol projection was based on molecular but was soon discoverd that it was in the spirit or intelligent energy.

Besides who would project back to this dimension..................it is possable to feel long distance but to turn that into molecular experiences.......no....but you can feel strees joy and anger as a sort of projection......

Evry time i post i feel cringes from the local cyber police here..........so i experience astrol projection from agrivated minds.....:-).......not mine mind you....hehehe...................

hypothetical discusion at best..........some interesting ideas though.

I used to like it here..now it reeks of hollow hallways and gangs of critics. Used to send a lot of people here now i steer them away

~sigh~

Mind over body - yes. deinfitely. I've done it, you just gotta know your body.
Mind over matter - no way. Uri Gellers powers don't exist.

Patterns only exist in your mind. If you don't recognize a pattern, it doesn't exist to you. The materials it's made of do exist. Henceforth, YOU only exist in your mind.

"I think, therefore I am." - (for those who dont know) Descartes

So there.

Ok, I feel a strong need to interject, although I know better...

but alas, DC:

if you feel the need to criticize the community which you are actively and intentionally visiting on a daily basis, then why the fuck do you bother to come here? There is no 'local cyber police' here, just people who have disagreed with you, and you can't handle such strong disagreement so you cast your fucking accusations everywhich way to satisfy your sorely bruised ego.

We don't need that bullshit here, so while you're busy steering people away, do so by example and *lead* them away. You won't be missed.

Or, if you can actually manage to set your childish self-infatuation aside for a moment, and peer through the haze long enough to actually see what's going on around here....then please, feel free to actually be a contributing member (contributing: one who gives, as opposed to one who blows smoke out his ass about nonsense and imagined conflicts).

You are creating the very negativity which you condemn. Stop, and it will stop.


I know you don't ever read an entire post, so I'll repeat on the chance that increased probability will help:

You are creating the very negativity which you condemn. Stop, and it will stop.

.

You are creating the very negativity which you condemn. Stop, and it will stop.

Well...word!

i am reminded of a classmate years ago who tried to convince me that if a tree fell in the forest and there was no one there to hear it, then it made no noise.

I told him that was the arrogance of man (generic: family of man) thinking that reality existed only if he was there to witness it..

He insisted that that is the way science works.. if it can't be measured or observed then it doesn't exist... rather short-sided imho.

LOL The tree thing. I've used that to help explain quantum mechanics. You know, tainting the experiment by merely observing. Something exists in two states until observed. Something like that.

I don't think anyone will break it to the media that astral projection is possible. If it really is possible (I think it is), I think it will eventually slip quietly into mainstream.


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I, Warjournal, Techincal-Slop Author Extraordinaire.

dhromed, I know you responded to me way back. I just wanted to explain something. I do not disagree with any of your points. Very true. The thing is I was not talking about physical mechanics. I was going after a deeper question, which is what is the significance of your consciousness in the physical world.

Sure you can say your genetics determine your appearance and personality. Sure you can trace cause and effect in the physical world. But my points are drawn from what I believe is BEYOND the physical world, because that's where you are attempting to explore through astral prjection.

If you believe that the totality of existance is the physical world as we know it, then there is no point in even reading what I have to say. For all the physical relationships we see, science still has NO CLUE what creates consciousness in a brain. They can study the chemical reactions and see how the brain works, but why we are actually conscious is still anybody's guess.

Well just stop for a moment and think of this... we operate under the assumption that our world is a simple chain of physical cause and effect. Under this assumption, free will is an illusion, because ultimately reality will work itself out according to physical laws. I find it somewhat arrogant to think that us humans, with only our 5 senses, can 'see' everything that's happening.

In fact, Relativity and Quantum theory have pushed us FARTHER from a grand unification theory as they call each other into question. With all this science, and more questions getting created than answers, I am inclined to believe that there are outside sources acting on our world.

So in closing I ask a question for you to ponder: Where is the evidence that Physical matter causes consciousness rather than consciousness creating physical matter?

-jiblet

Funny how i came to this forum to have a bit of fun with the art community share some of lifes experiences and found this crowd.

I only give banter here cause this place isnt seriouse enough to hold my attention. The homies right now are un-worthy
I have a ton of experience in art business and investing. I am looking for a forum that will need this experience, the search continues

I thought the Ozone spirit would be here....the good Doc is on the right wavelength but this site is gettin to clicky. Way to many monitored post and way to obviouse in who gets to say what.......ive searched the archives and my post are mild compared to some of the riff raff from the locals........but i get stepped on.........I think ill go play golf...:-)

Im but a lurker now mining PS tips............so dont think ive gone off the deep end and becamse bruised or damaged somehow....ouch.......no this crowd needs to up some class i before i get seriouse and waste my time with tutorials here...sorry but im not a groupie or a cult follower...........and im noy impressed......Cyber

I used to like it here..now it reeks of hollow hallways and gangs of critics. Used to send a lot of people here now i steer them away

DocCyber,

The only problem you could possibly have with this place is that people are free to speak their minds and they're not afraid to do so. This means that YOU are the one who has a problem. There are only words here. No one is physically attacking you. Everyone here has received some form of verbal criticism from time to time and guess what... they deal with it.

Now I understand some people are far too sensitive to handle free and open dialogue with others of varying interests and temperments. You are clearly one of those people and I am sorry for you. This is an indication of your serious immaturity. I respect your work and your experience in the art industry and I have enjoyed so many of your wonderful airbrushed creations, you have real talent. But I must say that although you've been around I am appauled at your immaturity! If you were a pimply faced 14 year old pulling this crap I would understand but you're a grown man... come on!!!

Please understand that you are welcome here but your childish antics are only going to make things worse. If you are looking for a forum that censors speech then I'm sure there are plenty around. When you're ready to speak your mind and accept that others are going to speak theirs, we'll be here.

Thanks for the lectures guys.....:-)...im amused.

Back to lurk mode.........and the topic is astrol projection.

Anyone know who phrased the word without running to yahoo for the answere?.

Anyone here know Edgr Casey????????????????????

Anyone here from the 70s when the finding the silver cord was a goal???.....that was some interesting stuff when inhanced by LSD...... The Moody Blues even sang about it
Ok now its lurk mode.........................as i try to hide my inflated ego....:-)

I used to like it here..now it reeks of hollow hallways and gangs of critics. Used to send a lot of people here now i steer them away

[This message has been edited by DocCyber (edited 07-05-2001).]

threep throws his two cents in where its not needed, by posting a comment he had prepared for an earlier thread that was shut down before he posted:
"reputations - fortunately or not - tend to persist. but most people move on.
however, it may seem that people can bear the same grudges - perhaps, he or she that is the subject of the grudge may feel that others are simply perpetuating their hostility from thread to thread; could it not be that this person simply confirms their previously formed impressions, and as such, remains victim to the same negative comments each time?"
threep looks, and wonders if he should translate his words into a monosyllabic cacophony of unfinished sentences in a more basic register, but decides he shall refrain until any such requests arise.

The tree falling in a forest and making no noise is kind of a bad example because you have to be picky about the word noise. Noise is vibration INTERPRETTED by a fauna ear. So no, a tree falling with no animal witnesses doesn't make any noise. That doesn't really have anything to do with the quantum physics model of schrodigers(my spelling = atrocious) cat, which is to say an event/object unwitnessed doesn't really exist. Since a tree falling in the forest has trillions of witnesses of its falling(it will shift uncountable atoms with just the vibrations from the noise) it is very easy to say that it happened.

Astral projection: I think the current world is too wonderful as it is right now, I do not need to go elsewhere, I am happy with my body. When I die, we shall see about otherworlds.

On a side note, if you get the chance to read "From Hell," by alan moore and someone else it has some interesting things to say about these sorts of things.

"I disagree wholeheartedly."

while you're busy steering people away, do so by example and *lead* them away

You are creating the very negativity which you condemn. Stop, and it will stop.

Bugamus ...seeing as you dont have all info on whats going on behind the scenes.

Seems the modirators here who dont like my post delete them.....ask em.........why would i visit a censored board........???

Just finishing up here..................................................wooosh................:-)


I used to like it here..now it reeks of hollow hallways and gangs of critics. Used to send a lot of people here now i jeer them away

while you're busy steering people away, do so by example and *lead* them away

You are creating the very negativity which you condemn. Stop, and it will stop.

DL great advice..............concider it done.................you guys got a gem in ol DL you should all listen to him................:-)........................................

I used to like it here..now it reeks of hollow hallways and gangs of critics. Used to send a lot of people here now i jeer them away