Preserved Topic: Death can be expensive

On another message board I frequent a discussion about funerals started. One member had read a few books about how funeral homes are simply in the business to milk the grieving family for all they have. Thought I would share his insight with y'all ...

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The main points that I was made aware of concerning the American Funeral industry were mostly concerned with a business structure that in in polar opposition to it's external stated purpose, vis. that rather than providing a spectrum of needed services in a compassionate manner, the funeral industry is interested solely in squeezing every last dime out of the bereaved family in their most emotionally vulnerable moments, and employing highly questionable, and often downright fraudulent, methods in doing so. This is an extremely complex subject, but here are some of the highlights:

1. The image of small, family-run businesses serving the community is often a smokescreen. The vast number of funeral parlors, cemeteries, monumment manufacturers, and even many floral suppliers, are all owned by one or two vast national corporations, dedicated to maximizing profit.

(Note-I am as much a capitalist as the next guy; I like a profit, too, but this delves into the area of profitting obscenely from people's sorrow.)

2. The ridiculously overpriced casket prices, "embalming" services, flowers, non-refusable "Director's" fees, limos, service fees, money for the Clergyman, the Organist, etc., etc., ad infinitum, all designed to "fee" the family to death.

3. Most people have the idea that a Funeral Parlor's services, transportation, embalming, etc., are all essentially required by law, which is completely false, and a falsehood that funeral directors ("Grief Counselors" - the only thing they counsel is the money out of your wallet) eagerly encourage, whether by silence or outright fraud, both which were made illegal by the federal laws Mitford helped to get passed back in the 60's. These full disclosure laws, which expressly prohibit funeral directors from even hinting that their services are required by law in any way are almost universally ignored.

4. Here is a perfect example: funeral directors implicitly or expressly state that the reason corpses (the "client") require embalming is to protect the public health, that a dead human body, which does not breathe or excrete, is a pestilential plague-waiting-to-happen. Conversely, the embalmist wears no respirator, no biohazard gear, and the body's effluent from the embalming process drains directly into the local municipal sewer system. When it is suggested that if funeral workers mean what they say, and this should be treated as hazardous waste they scream at the potential expense. A slight discrepancy?

5. How about those "sealer" caskets, that are supposed to "protect the Loved One's body from the elements" and provide greater preservation? (50 cents worth of rubber gasket around the casket lid for only $500.00 extra) One phrase: Anaerobic Bacteria, the "putrefactive bacteria".

6. Me: "Well, how much is embalming?"
Director : "That's $500.00"
Me: "Well, that's a bit much. Can we skip it?"
Director: "Sure, but we will have to provide refrigeration for the client until the funeral."
Me: "Okay. How much is that?"
Director: "That's $500.00"


It goes on and on. In my opinion, this is not a case a of a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch; this is the ENTIRE INDUSTRY. The "shocking" part came when Mitford describes the tactics used to maximize the amount of money the funeral director squeezes out of the family. It was like she was using a live recording of my experience with funeral personnel when I buried my mother. It was essentially word-for-word.
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Ugly, eye-opening stuff, no?

sad, but I cant say I am surprised! Interesting read that was. Llike most things in the 'capitalistic' world, profit is a motivator, whereas the consumer is usually last on the list of concerns (not that any Corporation would ever admit that!).

A prime example would be the Health (no)care Insurance ripp-off and Pharmaceutical extortionists here in the States.

Its all about keeping the consumer in the dark. Make them think they are getting what they pay for and who will worse for it? hehe

Just have to love it! and its only gonna get better as Globalization takes off and the power transfers to fewer ppl!

Gawd bless humanity!

Eh, I really don't see too much wrong with these practices.

For some odd reason everyone seems shocked that corporations are interested in money. Microsoft is called a money greedy corporation. MLB owners are greedy. Etc. Well we do live in a capitalistic society. The truth is these people are out to make money just like you and me.

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cheers.jay

Yes, I understand about making money, but at the expense of a grieving family?! There are just some places you have to draw a line ya know ...

As for me, just stuff me in a Hefty sack and stick me out by the curb.

I can't see any reason whatsoever to go to all that trouble for a dead body. It's completely irrational as far as I'm concerned... unless you're an ancient Egyptian My parents have already told me and worked it out that they want to minimize all expenses and be cremated when they go. As far as we're concerned, our bodies are just temporary transportation to pass through this world.

But more to your point, BeeKay, yeah it's pretty sleazy to milk grieving families like that. I'm quite the capitalist and I'm all for our form of government as well, but both of these absolutely require an ethical populace to work properly. These practices you're describing are far from ethical.

. . : newThing

Jestah: not everyone is out to make money ! lol thats a pretty naive statement plus there is actually a difference between need and greed imho.

Greed/selfishness/self preservation is a human condition, got roots way back into mans evolution. Shame really.

My people had a much cheaper solution...and as for 'pestulant' corpses...does that mean that all the animal carcasses are also 'pestulant'? I don't think so...Mother Nature is really tidy with corpses...

Why a burial? Why not cremation? Just scatter my ashes into the wind...

Di you know that even for cremation they will STILL harge you for embalming, the coffin, flowers, gravesite if you want to bury the ashes or a scattering ceremony, blah blah blah, blah blah...I agree though that these corporations are 'just out to make a profit', but there out ot make that profit in the most digustion way possible, at the expense of human emotion. So any of you who may think of saying 'leave the poor conglomerate alone, they're just trying to survive like the next business', pause and think of how YOU owuld feel to be hit with the death of a close, loved one, and THEN be hit with the 20, 30, 40 thousand dollar bill for memorialising them?

Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

When you suggest we should not leave the "poor conglomerate alone", are you talking about government intervention? Or are you talking about increasing consumer awareness?

At the expense of a grieving family?

We live in a capitalist market where people are out to make a buck. I'm not one to defend 'big business' but when a good is provided, whats wrong with charging for it? Here a funeral parlor has provided a service and should be paid in return. At the expense of a grieving family? How about at the expense of a hungry family? Or an uneducated family? What about a sick family? Does this mean food stores, lawyers, and doctors shouldn't collect money?

How about at the expense of an unartistic family? Should designers not seek payment for the goods they provide? Of course not, they should be paid accordingly.

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cheers.jay

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 04-23-2002).]

Read the original post again. The discussion is not about making an honest buck by providing a service. The issue is overpricing and providing services that are not needed, etc.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Hunted around a bit and found out you most likely can do a do it yourself funeral should you desire to avoid funeral costs. You might even be able to bury your loved ones in the back yard!!
http://www.motherearthnews.com/doityourself/diy187.funeral.shtml

If you have problems with the link, just back up to the home page and find the article from there.

I'm gettin' cree-mated (tomorrow). Bugger the cost. I'm goin' to the place in South Springvale, The Necropolis...lovley place, all kinds of green trees and shit...

God i'm so drunk....



-= 'I'm not insensitive...I just don't give a shit =-

I dont think capatilism makes people jerks and sleeze balls. I think some people are just jerks and sleeze balls and will use whatever system their in to whatever advantage they can. Greedy people are not greedy because they live in a capitalist society. If you look at the literature from most cultures/societies you'll probably find stories where the greedy person is an antagonist. That tells me that those cultures/societies had at least a few greedy members somewhere alone the way.

Unless you live in a society that can find and eliminate jerks and sleeze balls before they enter the society you'll always have jerks and sleeze balls in that society. Heres a kicker I'm not a full-time jerk, but I am a part-time or occassional jerk.

So the question to me becomes does running a funeral parlor make people jerks and sleeze balls, or do full-time jerks and sleeze balls naturally gravitate to that professon?

Cremation isn't really a cost-effective solution either. You are still required to purchase a casket in which they put you in and burn it along with you. 98% of the ashes in the urn (which they also charge you a hell of a lot for) are the charred remains of your casket. Large sacks of water like us don't leave a lot behind once burned.

Osprey, excellent point! Almost any system of government or economics can work depending on the people who live by it. Capitalism is an amoral (morally neutral) system, it totally depends on the populace to determine the morality of its implementation.

St. Seneca, can't you just insist you don't need a casket or an urn for the cremation?

You can say that you don't want the urn, but you aren't really given a choice about hte coffin.



Koan 63:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

Read the article I linked to a few posts up. If you shop around, you might get lucky and find someone who will do the cremation at a reasonable price ... without all the frills.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.