Preserved Topic: Peanut Gallery for "Should Drugs Be Legal?" II

Continued from here

All comments/compliments/opinions/questions should be asked/stated here please.

Try to be respectful to the debaters, no flaming or verbally asaulting them, respect their opinions too!

Slimies are aloud, but because these threads tend to get long (we went through 4 on the last one) I ask that you do not post your graphic sigs (taglines are acceptable) to keep the filesize down to a minimum.


Keep it up, folks!


[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 09-28-2002).]

quote:

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Slimies are aloud

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Woohoooo

Man this was a waste of a post...

Yes, it was.

And I, am back!

~slapped mother around a few times~

A true mamma jamma you are

ummmmm .. tom?

what's going on tom?

is there a time limit in responding in the formal debate?

I mean .. one more day and it would will be a week since I posted my opening statements

I'm itching over here .. itching I say itching!

me
.::. cEll .::. 513

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 09-28-2002).]

[This message has been edited by RammStein (edited 09-28-2002).]

Ahhh just chill sit back and puff the peacepipe....

[puff puff .. still itching]

Erm in case you cannot read english check my last post use translation device, chill out borrow ws's peace pipe and wait untill i get back from filming . Unfortunately real life work sometimes fucks up ya plans but as it pays my bills i kinda have to work, and what ya worried about, that my fact finding mission in amsterdam may cause problems, anyway enough of this craziness...LMAO...must the stuff they smoke in these cyber cafe's in holland,,,, as i am about 1750 km's or approximately 1000 miles from my pc and my notes etc.... unles ya have a good way of me posting in the formal please be patient..

well damn .. lol .. got all these facts heh .. still waitin' to see them .. [playing devil's advocate here]

quote:

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Unfortunately real life work sometimes fucks up ya plans

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well aint that the truth...

Whoa, so this isn't real life? I just knew you were all figments of my frazzled imagination...

~Slaps Master Suho~

Imagine that!

Hehe...
*considers pulling the lever...should I, or should I not...indeed, that is the question...*

*Puff, puff* Ahhh...who's up next?

[waiting impatiently for tom]

[puff puff]

[sighing]

Yea Suho,

We are all computer generated characters who post randomly generated answers to your questions.

bump bump bump... debate debate debate! Bring on the next segment!

sorry folks this photo shoot put my shedule back a few days if no one objects to keep the ball rolling i wouldnt object to ram posting his next post in the formal, i am looking at a pile of 5000 slides that need scanning by end of this week. I am 100% commited to this debate its just that real life caught up at bit me on the ass real big with this photo assignment and as its mz first professional shoot for a large customerr i cant afford to screw it up, i hope you guys can hang on in there for me please, and ins the suggestion i made is your call...

OK I am in the process of tzping everything up for this debate, the last debatre took soetime to get up and running and there were more participants, what i will NOT DO is make a half assed lame attempt at a post and do a rush job just to suit you insider..i remember your sorry ass post here, so dont use the pissed off slime with me especially in non relevant posts, my post will be ready when i am happy with it, unlike you it appears i actuallz give a shit about the quality of my posts, so get off my back !!

Ram my apologies for the delay but work was piled as high as hell, and i dont want to rush an argument i am pretty passionate about just to please some others. Thanks for ya patience dude.

to everyone else sorry for this slight digression, normal service will now be resumed.


And one more thing insider I AM SAVING MY WORK AS I TYPE IT!!!! and taking a quick break to post in another thread doesnt delay a post in here

starting today .. I'll be away for two weeks .. so if you don't see a reply from me in the formal debate please bare with me .. I'll be away from a computer most of the time I am away .. I'm taking a "vacation" for myself and getting away from my current real life situations .. I'll be going to Joplin, MO for two weeks to see friends and be by myself on the open road

all take care


.::. cEll .::. 513

Yo Rammstien Have a great vacation and see ya when ya get back, and dont worry my post will be here waiting for ya

Lighten up a bit InS, it's not like were in a real big hurry. Besides, most of the people here have lives to attend to outside of the asylum. Strange as that may seem, it's true. Anyways, just chill...

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

Lives??? ....... outside???

(yeah don't I know it now that we have a one year old running around!)

Cat's got his tongue ^

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

Hide that cat!

well I made it to my destination and just wanted everyone to know I am ok and just chillin' with a Jager Bomb in one hand and a key board in the other .. and I'll atleast get to check the net once a day .. so tom if you want to post go ahead .. I can respond to you from any location .. hehe .. I'm just that good .. hehe .. but I'm humble about it .. LMAO


.::. cEll .::. 513

Yo Ram, ok just for You i will get the post up and running asap.

Now get back to thee beer and shrooms. cya when ya get back have a good one Tom

^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^ BUMP ^

what happen to the Formal debate?


.::. cEll .::. 513

I think tom was abducted by aliens...

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

No i wasnt it just slipped down my list of priorities, i had to put a collection of work that i have done in the past together so only had the chance for an odd post here and there, i am finishing off a site that i am working on, then will put my formal argument into its finished state, at the moment it consists of a bunch of notes, so i need to collate it and make it readable, sorry for the delay, glad to see you back Ram, sorry to here ya news, but it looks like you are none the worse for wear, having been through a messy divorce i know how ya feel.

tom

Heh. Drug'em up, I say!

Peacepipe, anyone? *puff, puff*

Let the drugging begin! Errr...match. Debate. Yea...what is in that peacepipe?

Ahh...trickster rabbit is here...Wheeee! Can you see him? He's all pink...hehe....come to think of it...he looks awefully like Emps bum...it is Emps bum!



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 10-25-2002).]

*bump*

so whats going on with the debate?

I think it's going no where .. just because unless you there are others that would like to get involved


.::. cEll .::. 513

IROTD

quote:

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I love durgs

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-A friend simultaneously rolling and tripping.


[dis]contempt+[.org]

IROTD = ?

I'm Rolling On The Dashboard?
I Really Ought To Die?
In Reality, Only Turtles Dream?
I Ran Over The Dog?

... ya got me...

Ahhh...InSiDeR Reference Of The Day (IROTD)???

Hehe...kinda like that...

Soo...is the Formal Debate dead??!!??

If so...then it's time to start a new one...hmmm?



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 11-11-2002).]

its not dead just really low on my list of priorities, i owe ram and the rest of you a million apologies for the delay.

If its felt that the delay is too long, another one could be started up and we could get back to this one later, i have shit loads of work on here at the moment. and i have to get it finished in 2 weeks, as i am off home for about 3 weeks to england(my home), to catch up with my son, who i havent seen in months, and to see my dad who i havent seen in 18 years...

so once again i am really sorry for the delays but i have a million and one things to do here....

please give me a few moer days and i will try and get some time for this...


thanks to all tom

<whiny voice> I don't feel like making a new one... </whiny voice>


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

Well, I certainly don't mind allowing for more time especially when the 3d world makes its demands. I hope you spend some good time with son and dad!

Just as long as you plan to continue the debate, it's cool with this member of the Peanut Gallery.

I just read my previous post .. damn was my english off!


.::. cEll .::. 513

Well, it's been a few more days. Is this one going to still happen? Do we need a plan B? Ideas anyone?

I want to continue hosting.

see the formal.

unfortunately the previous peanut seems to have dissapeared (my fault for dragging this out so long)

OK Ram Back to you, i approached this from a different angle than i originally intended, as i looked at the facts and figures i had, i realised that they could be argued as ram has pointed out for and against untill a draw, so i have based mine on logic,experience,and a sense odf what is right.



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 12-08-2002).]

Never fear about that first peanut gallery for it can be found in the archives:

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Archives/Archive-000007/HTML/20021009-17-000542.html

I'm very pleased to see this back under way Now I'm off to read the next installment.

*cough* Thankyou

Ramm your up!

Hmmm...*looks at peacepipe* Drugs are dangerous? Really? Hmmm...

Oh well...*puff, puff*

Peacepipe, anyone?

Good to see that the Formal Debate is continuing...on with the Debate!

... and it's good to have you back, WS Been on vacation I hear?

Well well... back on the debate again...

Legalizing "drugs" is such a broad topic. Wouldn't it have been easier simply to argue for/against legalizing cannabis? That's the heart of the matter...

WS - pass the peace pipe and I'll bring the munchies...

Bodhi - Cell 617

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 12-08-2002).]

Yeah Bugs...vacation (and honeymoon)...in Florida. Vacation was great, and spending Thanksgiving with the family was very nice. Kinda missed the Asylum...but the break was also welcome. Well, that's now history *sigh*

*passes peacepipe*

On with the debate! Err...think I already said that...what is in that pipe??

Ok whattafuk is going on here?

so do drugs give us anything huh?
nope, they just take....they eat your brain ...also people believe they solve problems but nah they just bring more....they fuck up your system...who needs em...and dudes there is really nothing kool about em....just plain old mexinan basura-jk-....why feed your body with shit when you know that you can do better.....damn it, why repeat history it happened to million trillion people everyday why do we have to repeat the same bullshit...damn, we humans are fucking stupid!

opps sorry I haven't thought this was going to continue .. let me get myself up to date


.::. cEll .::. 513

Edit: Ummmmm.........could someone please tell me if I'm allowed to rant here. I'm not breaking some formal debate rule if I do rant ~a bunch~ am I?

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~Existence is a mere pattern.~
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[This message has been edited by Rooster (edited 12-10-2002).]

Rant away, rooster.

I actually don?t see anything wrong with legalizing drugs. I think it?s more about personal freedom than anything else. The problem is the fact that people try to make connections between negative things in life and the usage of drugs. I say if someone wants to sit at home a smoke pot all day they should have to right to do so. Or if someone wants to get all coked out in their living room they should have the right to do so. It?s not like legalizing drugs is going to somehow force non-drug users into becoming new drug users. And I think if someone wants to do so many drugs they O.D. and die on their living room floor, it?s your life and you should be able to live it as you please.

Some people try to defend the illegalization of drugs by saying that drugs will in turn make users act out crimes to get more drugs. I think that these people need to learn what exactly personal-responsibility is, in terms of actions. Doing drugs is one action, and committing a crime such as burglary or murder is a totally separate action; and such crimes are morally wrong no matter what the reason being.

And some of you would say, ?drugs are bad? and, ?drugs can kill?. Yeaaaah....... everything in this world is a drug. In fact, not too long ago nearly every American celebrating Thanksgiving got high on drugs. I bet some of you ate so much that you felt really sleepy and happy huh? That?s because you did an excessive amount of a drug called, food. The entire reason you feel sleepy is because you ~are~ drugged.

Point is, an excessive amount of anything can harm you, even food. The body has a limit to the amount any compound and the limit differs for each of them. People should know the body?s limit in regards to the drugs their taking. One of the main reasons people die from drugs is the fact that they don?t know the limits of the body. It?s not like getting a pharmaceutical drug from your doctor with him/her telling you what the proper dosage is. And do you really think a drug dealer should be managing the science of drug dosage, I don?t.

Let?s be realistic; with drugs being illegal the entire process is handled by people who are far from doctors. And do you really think that making something illegal stops people from doing that action, no. Morals stop people from doing actions they believe to be morally wrong, not laws. Laws have never stopped anyone from doing as they wish. Laws only bring consequence not prevention. As of now drugs are illegal, there are people who don?t like drugs so they don?t them, and the people who wish to do drugs do them regardless.

Also, for the people who believe that drugs rot your brain and render you somehow completely incompetent; you?re so wrong. Again there is a huge difference between doing something and doing something excessively. Doing an excessive amount of drugs will fuck up your body and mind; and an excessive amount of exercise will make you both anorexic and malnourished.

This might come as a surprise after writing an entire page about legalizing drugs, but I personally do what I consider a ~healthy~ amount of drugs myself. And no I?m not out robbing people trying support my drug ~habits~, or whatever someone wants to call it. And no my brain is not all rotted out inside because I do drugs. Why? Because I don?t sit at home smoking pot all day long, that would be excessive. I would consider myself a very intelligent and competent young man. At the age of nineteen I own my own business and I go to a very good university where I major in aerospace engineering. It?s not the drugs making this world a bad place it?s the lack of self-control, respect, dignity, tact and personal morals.

Okay.......I suppose I?m done ranting.


Some of these ideas were already covered in the formal debate. If I'm breaking some formal debate rule, tell me and I will promptly erase.

::
~Existence is a mere pattern.~
::

[This message has been edited by Rooster (edited 12-10-2002).]

No rules broken, Rooster. That's why this is the peanut gallery for the Formal debate...so that people can rant, rave, smoke the peacepipe, whatever...without 'breaking up' the Formal debate.

I am clearly for legalization of drugs...and I've already explained many times why. I am, however, against drug usage (at least, the addictive variety). Reason being, that addiction makes it very hard to stop using the damned things (like cigs...grrr!). I don't mean to make such things illegal, but instead to tax them, and open centers for those who wish to quit, and can't...treatment centers. Also, I feel that information and education of accurate information should also be made available. One cannot solve problems by treating the effects...one has to go to the root of the problem. And the root of the drug problem is, why do people use drugs in the first place? Solve that, and one will not need to treat the effects...

People will do what people want to do, regardless of the laws in effect. The laws only really matter if you get caught. Most intelligent people, drug users or not, won't generally get caught doing something they shouldn't. In the realm of possibilities, it could happen. but it's not something that happens every day.

Some of the harder drugs, like morphine, delidas, and yes, even cocaine, are legally available to specific patients under strict doctors orders for specific treatment of terminal and often painful illnesses. Coke was originally intended to be used for medical pain relief. (and let's not forget the history of that soda pop!) But these restrictions do not stop people who wish to make a profit from the illegal traffiking of these substances. I hear on the news often that pharmacies have been broken into and mass quantities of "controlled" substances are taken. In fact, just a couple of years ago, right here in plain ol' Greensboro NC USA, a pharmacy was broken into for the new hot stuff - Oxycontin. The crooks busted into the back of the pharmacy from the store next door. Right through the wall them came...
Legalizing some of the harder drugs would provide some quality control, reduce the profits of illegal drug traffikers, and provide additional tax revenues to the federal government.
As for education, everyone should check out The Vaults of Erowid to learn about what drugs really are and what they do. This organization exists to provide information and to educate the general public about the real effects of drugs. Because people are gonna do it anyway, it's important for them to be able to access this information... Pass the word.

And really, when was the last time you saw a news story about a pothead who went violent on someone? Happens all the time with alcohol - and that's been legal for years! Most potheads I've known spend more time turning into meatloaf on their couches... Went to a New Year's party several years back... Bunch of college kids were there... At the hour of midnight, the keg was empty and those drunk kids just went nuts! Kicked over a very expensive stereo, trashed some furniture, made a lot of unpleasant noise, and because they were underage (another law no one pays a whole lot of attention to) no one would call the police for fear of being fined for providing alcohol to minors. All in all, much hell was raised, and several friendships broken that night. And the poor potheads sat quietly in the back room shaking their heads at the stupid drunk kids... When large quantities of alcohol are involved, bad things can happen. When large quantities of pot are involved, most people just go to sleep quietly in the corner...

Of course drugs are dangerous. So is crossing the street if you're not careful.

*good stuff WS*

Bodhi - Cell 617

[This message has been edited by bodhi23 (edited 12-10-2002).]

quote:

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And really, when was the last time you saw a news story about a pothead who went violent on someone? Happens all the time with alcohol...

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(real big sigh)........................

Please think a little deeper. Alcohol does not make people angry; angry people get drunk and break shit. Alcohol simply amplifies the user?s per-existing emotions. Alcohol and anger are two separate issues, it?s just that one or sometimes both are used a scapegoat to try to justify a lack of personal responsibility.

There are few people left in this world that suck it up and admit they?ve done something wrong, and that?s it?s their own damn fault. Everyone tries to blame some other factor other than themselves.

T.V. does not make kids shoot up schools; crap music doesn?t not make kids shoot up schools. Psychologically unstable kids shoot up schools. Theirs something wrong with that kid already, it?s not the T.V. or the damn radio.

Just like, ~People kill people, not guns~.

Or, ~I got real drunk and cheated on my girl friend~. No, the person probably didn?t like their girl friend that much to begin with, the beer just gave them a half-assed excuse to be overly incompetent.

Note: bodhi23, I?m not trying to give you are hard time, I just wanted to quote you so I could rant some more.


::
~Existence is a mere pattern.~
::

No problem Rooster. What you say is true. Alcohol is not the cause, simply the excuse. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the effects of alcohol are such that it becomes easier for people to let go of socially imposed restraints and inhibitions, and it tends to lead to violence more often than not. I was really thinking about all of the news stories you hear where they say the words: "alcohol related incident" or what-have-you. (Though the more I drink, the more I tend to want to go curl up in the bed and pass out. It's one of the reasons I don't drink to excess anymore. Not fun. But a good beer every now and then is a good thing.)

You don't often hear those kinds of stories about marijuana. Most of what's heard on the news about marijuana is that the cops made some big bust in some neighborhood. But there's never any discussion about violence and resistance where that's concerned. In all of the footage, the people who are getting busted just look stoned and unhappy about the whole thing. But they don't put up much of a fight about it. Whereas a drunk person would be more likely to hurl insults and smart remarks at the authorities. Think about it for a while. Haven't you seen COPS? When was the last time they showed a clip of the cops busting a group of stoners? It's just not exciting television. (Not that COPS really is exciting television, but you see my point, yes?)

I'm just really starting to worry about the whole human race in general. Drugs or no drugs.

But honestly, I don't think the government should be telling me what substances I can or cannot ingest if I so choose, provided I'm not infringing on anyone else's right to live their life the way they want to. There's more important things going on in the world that the authorities should be paying attention to.

Bodhi - Cell 617

[note: I wont be able to respond on the formal debate until next week .. I'm going back to California to sign divorce papers this weekend so my mind hasn't been to focused on anything else .. tom great to see you back]


.::. cEll .::. 513

Yo Ram thanks, well after my marathon delay i think ya can take as long as ya want mate

Change is coming in Canada. http://www2.mybc.com/news/cbc/fs.cfm?source_id=CBC&id=1234164