Topic awaiting preservation: explaination of the court room Jesus

Discussion from other post:
It is like this story once told to me:

You know that you, tnt, have sinned (in a Christian aspect). I can say with almost certainty that you have most likely coveted something, lusted after something, or been violent at something before in your life. Well, let's say that there is a policy just issued by the President that if you do evil, you shall be punished with one year per evil act. And I can't be a judge, but just going on my understanding of an average of sin like that in the world today, you might be in prison for a long time. But you are given a bail of 100,000 dollars. But, all you have is a ten. Then, as the guards come to take you away, a complete stranger who loves you comes into the court room and hands the judge a 100,000 dollar check!

Do you get what I am saying?

Sangreal said
And just to play the Devil's Advocate, as i so love to do, answer me this question then, in stopping a man (in this case tnt) from recieving his punishment, is he not therefore doing an evil deed himself. For if this stranger were to go about bailing out everybody from their evil act than nobody would care about doing the wrong thing because they know they can get out of it in just the nic-of-time.
anyways


Oh, and Sangreal, yes that is true. I wondered about it for a long time. Why would it matter if you sinned, because Jesus is just going to take your sin away? Why not have the best of both worlds. But, after reading Romans and a few parts in the gospel (he he he) (inside joke for those of you who are wondering "what?"), I have come to understand many reasons why you shouldn't tempt God, and why you can't just sin and expect Jesus to come to your aid. Quite eye opening. The good part is, that Jesus does come to your aid when you repent. He doesn't just come into the court room and pay up, that isn't what I said. He came into the court room because he loved you. Not just because he happened to be strolling by the court room with 100,000 dollars burning a hole in his pocket. And besides, that is just a spiritual representation. That is what happens in Heaven's court. You still reap destruction from the sin sown anyway, Jesus tries to help in that too. The catch is that He can only help if you ask. He only pays your way if you believe in Him. If you believe that He really is your own personal Lord and Savior, there is no limit of the help, guidance, and love that He will pourout into your life. There is a nice little quote I like, that goes someting like: In order to stand tall, and walk in the Light of the Lord, you must first get on your knees and humble yourself.

Do not rebuke a moker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

(Edited by Gideon on 07-31-2004 19:24)

(Edited by Gideon on 07-31-2004 19:26)

I'm sorry to say that I have not one clue what it is you are attempting to say with this post Gideon. Perhaps you are referring to/from another post?
Also, I think you have a spelling error in your signature. You say "Do not rebuke a moker or he will hate you", I think you mean mocker not moker.


:::tao::: ::cell::

quote:

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I'm sorry to say that I have not one clue what it is you are attempting to say with this post Gideon.

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ditto =)

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Thank you very much Tao, I didn't see that. And yes, it is a discussion from another post that was started about the supernatural. Sangreal said that he wanted it about supernatural other than God, so I moved the discussion. Sorry for the cofusion. If you want to see what we were discussing in it's entirety look at the post InI has put up, thanks. As for your Q's:

quote:

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InI said:

the bible in all of it's forms, including muslim and jew "variations" (which
don't differ until the birth of Jesus Christ),

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First off, that isn't entirely true. The Bible is just an extention of the Torah, the Jewish book of faith, just as Christianity is just an extention of the Jewish fatih. That is one of Jesus's main pet peeves that He kept saying over and over again that He wasn't there to end the Law (OT for Christians), but to fulfill it. Does that make sense? As for Islam, I will use one of my favorite phrases: Love the people, dispise the religion. Mainly for the reason that it does so closely relate to what Christians teach, except the main part. The one part overlooked by Muhammen (sorry if I spelled his name wrong) was that Jesus was the Son of God who died on the cross to pay for our sins so that we can go into Heaven. That is why I think of Islam as the Devil's religion, not because of the good morals, Lucifer isn't against the good morals, he is against Jesus. That is why I don't like Islam at all. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go kill anyone, hurt anyone, or even say anything mean about someone (intentionally), just because they are Islamic. God still loves them, Jesus still loves them, and I still love them (maybe not happy, but love for my relations is still there).

(sorry, that was a little long winded, but I felt I must clear that up.)

As for the rest,

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InI said:

clearly states and restates I shouldn't try to picture the divine.

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Shouldn't try to make idols of God. Why? Why not make pictures of God? Because when He said that to the Israelite nation at the time He had not been in any form. He said that you can't make a golden (or other material) picture of Him because He had not revealed to them an image to make. Also, when you make an image, you start worshiping the image and not God, and then you revert to Idolatry again. That is why I believe that no one can truly 100% be sure where the Ark of the Covenant is, because Jews were worshiping that and not God. That is why, I believe, that it disappeared. Also, one of the leaders in Israel broke the staff of Moses because people were starting to worship that like it was a god!

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InI said:

I shouldn't care about what God wants, as a human,

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Where in the Bible does it say this?! Of course you should care what God wants, and what He wants you to do. That is one of the reacurring themes in the book Judges (good book by the way, many great, historical stories in there), that when the people of Israel started to think about God, and what He wanted them to do, that is when He sent them a "judge" to lead them out of suppression.

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InI said:

I am not supposed to understand or discuss the nature of God

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I don't know what you entirely mean by nature, if you mean what He wants, that is revealed in the Bible, discussed in seminars across the globe, on radios, television broadcasts, magazines, and even chatted about in coffee shops. If you mean what He is, what He does, what He likes, what He doesn't like, that also is discussed several times all over the Bible too many times to count.

quote:

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InI said:

I am supposed to understand the nature of"good" as it applies to human
societies.

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And, I am not entirely sure what you mean by this, you might have to clear it up a bit for me later.

I hope I gave you some good enough answers for the time being, and I hope I answered the right questions. If you need anything else cleared up I would love to help, and there is also a great book that would just love to be read and meditated upon. And I am sorry for the long post, I just need lots of room to answer Q's like that.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

And here I've spent 6 months wondering what the hell a "moker" was....

sorry...

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

*scratches head*
*looks around a bit*
*scratches head again*
*decides sleeping is easier than trying to figure out what InI meant*
Seriously, what did you mean by "drugs in my country?" Aren't there drugs in every country? But that is besides the point. I tried to help and answer your questions. If they aren't really questions, please tell me so that I can shut up. I tend to get long winded on things like that (for future reference).

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InI said:

the hel... fu.. what you're trying to depict ! bad sin ahead

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All I have to say is "?"

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Gideon even I am confused by what you are trying to say here. What happened to the courtroom? *DOES A VERY VIOLENT PEN PEN all the way down the hall.*

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

by the way I AM GOING TO GET YOU FOR THAT GOSPEL COMMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!{Pen Pens back up the hall}

If one match can start a forest fire then why does it take the whole box to start a BBQ Grill?

Eh? You will have to clarify your question. My eyesight is going with my hearing.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

I used to believe in God. Jesus. All of that.

I had the same amount of guidance and all that wonderful help as I had before when I believed in it.

God and Jesus have never helped guide me. (I don't say they haven't helped me too because that would probably set people off on a little rant about how Jesus saved us from sin and all that) They've never talked to me. I didn't feel a warmth or belonging when I believed in them.

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"Dawn is nature's way of telling you to stop using that stupid quote."
- me.

Okay. You know what? Even the Devil believes in God:

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James 2:19 'You believe that there is one God? Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder!'

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He goes on in that section to talk about faith without works. Yes, faith is good, but what are you doing with it? It said even the demons believe in Him, but they aren't going to Heaven! As for guidence, God has spoken to you, me and everyone. His holy words are kept in the Bible for all to see and gain strength from.
Tell me, when you were a Christian how often did you read your Bible, pray, or just talk to God? This isn't an offensive question (at least I don't mean it that way) I just want to know if you tried to speak to God. There is a good dialogue from a daily devotional book:

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"Lord?"
"Yes, Kathy?"
"I like to hear yes!"
"Kathy?"
"Yes, Lord?"
"Then why do you always tell me no?"

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God wants to hear from you, you just have to open the door. Jesus said in Matthew:

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7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
7:8
For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
7:9
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
7:10
Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
7:11
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

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All you have to do is ask...

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

quote:

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Tell me, when you were a Christian how often did you read your Bible, pray, or just talk to God?

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I was one from 6-10 and read the bible a little here and there, never understanding it. I prayed and *tried* to talk to "God" daily.

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"Dawn is nature's way of telling you to stop using that stupid quote."
- me.

Dammit. Doesn't matter if one is an extension of another or the original, bonafide cult - they are all variations on the greatest (and I mean 'greatest', not just biggest) con ever perpetrated.


Religion.


Sorry - feeling grumpy.

I was raised to be a lutheran, but I never really got into any of it.
I personally don't believe in god, but I do have a lot of respect for those who do. sheer faith is just something I can't have.
I do have a question that maybe a christian or two could help me with :
this arc of the covenant, I was told by a semi-beleiver that it was a great weapon. I'm fairly gullable, so please don't lie to me, what is it?




...Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most (ozzy osbourne)

Ok, good question. I try not to lie, too much Baptist and Eagle Scout in me. What I have is from the Bible with a few things on the History Channel (please tell me if you don't beleve accounts from the Bible). From Exodus:

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25:10
They shall make an ark of acacia wood; it shall be two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high.
25:11
You shall overlay it with pure gold, inside and outside you shall overlay it, and you shall make a molding of gold upon it all around.
25:12
You shall cast four rings of gold for it and put them on its four feet, two rings on the one side of it, and two rings on the other side.
25:13
You shall make poles of acacia wood, and overlay them with gold.
25:14
And you shall put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark, by which to carry the ark.
25:15
The poles shall remain in the rings of the ark; they shall not be taken from it.
25:16
You shall put into the ark the covenant F62 that I shall give you.
25:17
Then you shall make a mercy seat F63 of pure gold; two cubits and a half shall be its length, and a cubit and a half its width.
25:18
You shall make two cherubim of gold; you shall make them of hammered work, at the two ends of the mercy seat. F64
25:19
Make one cherub at the one end, and one cherub at the other; of one piece with the mercy seat F65 you shall make the cherubim at its two ends.
25:20
The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat F66 with their wings. They shall face one to another; the faces of the cherubim shall be turned toward the mercy seat. F67
25:21
You shall put the mercy seat F68 on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the covenant F69 that I shall give you.
25:22
There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, F70 from between the two cherubim that are on the ark of the covenant, F71 I will deliver to you all my commands for the Israelites.

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The Arc was basically where the Head Priest of Israel met with God once a year to make a sin offering and consult Him on what to do. Anyone else at any other time died (see the story of Aaron's sons in Leviticus Chapter 10). The Arc wasn't a weapon, but a place of worship. I think where your friend got that it was a weapon is 1.) If he watches sci-fi or 2.) In many places in the Bible it is used to win a battle. I remember one instance in particular was at the walls of Jericho (Joshua chapters 4-6) that the Arc was marched in front of priests and musicians. They marched around it for six or seven days, and on the last day marched around Jericho 7 times. After the last time the trumpets blared and the walls fell down, making the victory easy. That might be what your friend is thinking about. But, it isn't a conventional weapon as some may think. It was supposedly lost durring the Babylonian captivity. The onlt thing is that it was supposedly found in a small African village. If that is true it has been there for hundreds of years.
As for tnt, that is good that you did read your Bible, and talk to God. The only thing is that when you stopped, around puberty, is when the age of accountablitity kicks in. At that age, it is thought that a child has more of an understanding of the world around him/her. That is when the child is accountable for him/herself and the parents aren't accountable anymore. At that age it is up to the child to find out what to do. From then on is when the child can decide on his/her own what they want to do. You basically stopped reading the Bible and talking to God at the most crucial time to be doing that. You said that the Bible didn't makes sense then, well, after the AOA it becomes easier and easier. The more you read and the more you can analize, the more you will know. That is what happened to me. Devout Baptist until I was 10. Then I stopped going to Church, reading the Bible, and talking to God (boy was that a mistake! Those were the worst years of my short life). Then, when I was 14 I got a kick in the butt and a reawakening. Then, I started reading my Bible again. I started going to church (the only one in my family since they [all Baptists] stopped coming about the same time. I started to get it. Jesus worked on me. Now, with every passing day I find myself more at peace, more joyfull, and an all around better guy. Every day for 2 years I got better! That must mean I am close to being done? No, I am still learning things, and I am still being continually blessed by God. It has been a wonderful 2 years. I would suggest picking that old Bible up, dusting it off, and try reading it again. It has some consepts in it that take a more mature mind to figure out. There are pastors in there 80s that still don't have the whole Bible figured out. There is just so much good in there that it can't all be digested in a lifetime. Maybe even 10 lifetimes. Reading more and more helps. The more you read, the better at reading you get. It is a very cool thing. I really hoped I have helped you tnt. I don't want you to be later on in you life and wonder what would have happened if you had read the Bible and followed God's Words. So please, just read it. If you don't want to read all of it at least read the New Testament.
And WH-it's ok everyone has those "grumpy days" I hope yours gets better.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Okay, and Sangreal, it is a response to you on the other post. On your paranormal post? I was trying to move the discussion so that you would be happy. Sorry that I confused you.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

What do you mean i am ALWAYS CONFUSED. In fact at this moment i am confused that i was confused. Nut anyways i was always raised to believe that it was a golden box were for a little while either god, a little piece of god, or all the souls of overly important dead people lived for a little while so they it or He could be transported. As a security measure it was turned into a bug zapper modified to fry any human or mortal that touched it so they built those gold staves. You know kinda like Galahad's Sword.

PEN PEN!!! BAWAGAHWAGAHWAGAH!

Um, you are confusing me now. Please try to make some sense.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

I just saw a video program that talked about the Arc of the Covenant that said that it was a golden box that contained the 10 Commandments.

PEN PEN!!! BAWAGAHWAGAHWAGAH!

Yup, in addition to other things. I'm pretty sure (someone correct me if i'm wrong) that it also carried some "momentos" to remind the Israelites. To my knowledge it had mana, some of mose's staff (that turned into a snake), and various other items. The greates part about it was that on the top there were two cheribum, and it is said in the Bible that God appeared there as a puff of smoke or as a pillar of fire (or something along those lines) and spoke with the chief priest (Aaron). I find that part about Israelite past very interesting.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

In short the arc is God's diary and anyone who tries to read it dies.

History is nothing but a fable that has been agreed upon.
-Napolean Bonaparte

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In short the arc is God's diary and anyone who tries to read it dies.

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Where do you come up with this nonsense??

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Sangreal said:

In short the arc is God's diary and anyone who tries to read it dies.

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In a basic sense, yes. Not anyone, but people that go against God's wishes do (He said that no one touches it but the Levites, and they can only touch the handle bars). Then, the cheif priest once a year can touch it to do the sin offering. If you want more about it to read: about it's making Exodus 25, 26, 37, 40; and its power Numbers 10, Joseph 3, 4, 6(Jericoh); and it having a mind of its own Samuel 4, 5 (Sangreal, you would like this, almost like your man-eating brief case), 6,7).

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

(Edited by Gideon on 08-28-2004 03:25)