Topic awaiting preservation: Get WinXP SP2

Released about half an hour ago (or so I'm told):

Windows XP Service Pack 2


kuckus

There's been a LOT of smart people recommending caution with this service pack, it's expected to throw kinks into software that already exists on your system. If you have any mission critical software that you can't live without, I'd wait to install the service pack and keep checking said software's site for news of incompatability issues and how to patch/fix them.

wow, that was fast, kuckus
well, i am looking forward seeing what it "does". downloading now....


B | T | E | P | L

Nice one Kuckus!

Have you had a look at it yet? Beside the irritating enforcement of auto-updates, what else has it to offer?

As a gamer and tweak-freak, would I really see any need for SP2 on my XP PC? What has it got that I want, eh?

Any budding reviewers out there?

quote:

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JKMabry said:

There's been a LOT of smart people recommending caution with
this service pack, it's expected to throw kinks into software that
already exists on your system.

---

I'm a MS beta tester. I've experienced no problems whatsoever with the betas so there's no reason I should experience any problems with the final release. Most problems "smart people" attribute to SP2 are problems with third-party software. In fact, I'm still running SP2 v.2082 on my office workstation.



(Edited by metahuman on 08-09-2004 23:51)

software that already exists on your system = third-party software

sorry I wasn't more clear there



(Edited by JKMabry on 08-10-2004 02:37)

I can't think of an example where somebody's machine wouldn't have 'third-party' software installed. In fact, I can only think of one or two applications on my own machine that aren't third-party.

And what about 'second party' software?

In fact, what the hell is 'party' software? Is there any 'rave' or 'clubbing' software available?

:P

White hawk, if you've even been to a rave and not been pumped up on drugs, you'd realise it's actually just a crappy party. :P

quote:

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Beside the irritating enforcement of auto-updates

---

If I install SP2, then I won't be able to turn off auto-update?
Is that true? Gotta source or link or something?
I've been searching, but I haven't been able to confirm.

You want to protect your computer? Here's how: Go here. Worked for me

code-headed intern

wj: No that's not true, you can turn them off or on just as before. When rebooting after the installation you'll get a big blue screen where they very much recommend turning them on, but you can just as well click No.

quote:

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warjournal said:

If I install SP2, then I won't be able to turn off auto-update? Is that true? Gotta source or link or something? I've been searching, but I haven't been able to confirm.

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Control Panel -> Automatic Updates

quote:

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White Hawk said:

Beside the irritating enforcement of auto-updates, what else has it to offer?

---

quote:

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I've just installed SP2, and there are some nice additions. I personally find the security center annoying, but you can turn it off quite easily, along with the firewall. They've made some significant changes to IE too. The ActiveX installer system has been complety redesigned, and there's a built in popup blocker that's on by default (which I immediately turned off). They've changed the way they report errors and blocked content too, with a new bar that pops up flagging the items (which you can also turn off easily). They seem to have also finally made uPnP somewhat secure. Port 5000 is now closed, as reported by a remote scan, without using a firewall or the like. Security has also been beefed up for filesharing. When exposing my netbios to the scanner, it can still connect to my machine, though XP is now somehow masking my username, and totally hiding the existance of my shared drives somehow. I have yet to see how this will affect filesharing over my local network. I've noticed no impact on my internet connection. There are also a lot of little bugs here and there I'd gotten used to that seem to have been fixed. There's nothing I've encountered so far I don't like.

---

There are also significant performance improvements. I think SP2 is a must if you're a gamer.

(Edited by metahuman on 08-10-2004 18:26)

With SP2, auto-update can be turned off. I was concerned for a few minutes there.
Thanks, kuckus and meta.

I'm going to give it a week or so before I install SP2.

We've got the final running on about a dozen machines here, and there has not been any problems. I've been running various betas of it for months, and those also did not cause any problems. Keep in mind I'm an app person - not a gamer. YMMV.

*Oops - what happened to double-post protection?*

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-11-2004 12:21)

I've been playing around with SP2 for a couple of days and I can quite honestly say that it seems to be okay!

Just to be sure what this ~272MB (I need the redist. version for deployment at work, and have been charged with testing it on my own machine, worst luck) potential databomb was really doing to my machine, I had a ganders at the functionality changes page on Microsoft. It reads like a list of all those things that we've relied on from 'third-party' vendors for years.

Internet Explorer can now block pop-ups, combines all those annoying dialogues into an unobtrusive info. bar, has more control over illicit installations and plugins, and incorporates a plugin manager (about bloody time) - and there are countless sensible changes throughout the system that lead me to wonder why it took them so long to get around to it.

I haven't tested it extensively, but I'm quite confident so far that SP2 would suit a majority of user's needs (though a modicum of care should be taken). The first thing I did was switch off Windows monitoring of my firewall and antivirus - I think I'm more than capable of administering my own security software, but thanks anyway Bill.

I'd recommend SP2 to everybody. Muppet users can be more assured of their security, whereas software/web developers are going to want to start looking at adapting their code to accommodate new security practices. Either way, it is ultimately nevitable anyway, so you may as well just take it like a man.

In conclusion, this is a package of all the things that should have been incorporated from the very start (and then some).

ADDENDUM: - I just received a timely email from the master franchise (who aren't the most PC-literate people I've ever met which is odd as the whole company is all about IT) who suggested that we do not use the redist. but wait for the auto-update version. Not sure what to make of it...

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-11-2004 14:47)

quote:

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White Hawk said:

ADDENDUM: - I just received a timely email from the master franchise (who aren't the most PC-literate people I've ever met which is odd as the whole company is all about IT) who suggested that we do not use the redist. but wait for the auto-update version. Not sure what to make of it...

---

Weird. Perhaps that's so they can simply say, "Okay, everyone. Everyone, are you listening? Okay, now type "windowsupdate.microsoft.com" and follow the instructions to install W-i-n-d-o-w-s X-P S-e-r-v-i-c-e P-a-c-k 2. That's two, people. Okay, now follow the instructions. Bye!"

LMAO @ Metahuman - I think you hit the nail right on the head their (something I get the urge to do to them from time to time)...

ADDENDUM: Upon further investigation, it would appear that Microsoft's little warning "not recommended for individual computers" is what threw them. Cowards! Eat flaming SP2 you beaurocrats! MWAHAHAHAR!

*ahem*

I need a holiday.

Really.

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-11-2004 18:07)

who knows what sypware they've installed this time around, not to mention DRM
i'll pass...if it ain't broke.

Nobody's even mentioned the best thing of all about SP2:

The new system tray icon for wireless connectivity.

Nifty.

:::11oh1:::

the good
and the bad:
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-6264_11-5222856.html

Hahaha - it would seem that the franchise I work for will be avoiding SP2 until somebody, somewhere re-works the Softlocx elements they use for their Access database licensing. Apparently, once SP2 is installed, Softlocx is unable to function - leaving them without access to their inventories, customers, and rental transactions.

They have been on to the firm that provided them with the database, but been deferred twice already, and are now onto another company in the US who are "looking into the problem".

So far, nobody seems to have a clue as to what to do about it.

also there is an article at PCWorld.com suggesting that you NOT use the Firewall with SP2.

quote:

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More seriously, rival firewall makers claim that the API used to manage the Windows Firewall could also be used by attackers to modify the software or turn it off. Major firewall makers, including Zone Labs, McAfee, and Symantec are preparing SP2-compatible versions of their applications which disable Windows Firewall when they are installed, and enable it again when they are uninstalled

---

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Articles like this one tend to aggravate the crap out of me. It suggests that the sky is falling and this service pack is the best thing since sliced bread and will keep the sky in it's proper place. Every problem it mentions with the un-SP2'd OS I've never had a problem with, virus threats, intrusion threats, zombification etc

I'll install the SP sure, I like to keep my systems as up-to-date as possible, but I sure get tired of the hype when there have always been methods to protect yourself, and as CPrompt's article quote suggests, better methods.

I heard rumours from the Microsoft camp that not installing SP2 can give you warts.

Honest.

SP2 is alot faster then SP1. I recommend it.

quote:

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JKMabry said:
I'll install the SP sure, I like to keep my systems as up-to-date aspossible, but I sure get tired of the hype when there have always beenmethods to protect yourself, and as CPrompt's article quote suggests,better methods.

---

Yeah....I installed SP2 as well. I too will keep my system up to date as possible. However, I don't use the XP firewall. I chose to use the ZoneAlarm instead. Never had a problem with it so far. Then again I also have a hardware firewall. As of late though I have been running just about nothing but Linux.

There are more things that SP2 seems to fix, rather than just the firewall. I like my ZoneAlarm..

Later,

C:\


~Binary is best~

Despite the fact that SP2 seems to mean a lot of updating and patching elsewhere, it really does make sense to install. There is a lot more to it than a security monitor, re-vamped wireless icons/controls, and improved internet and IE security.

They moved a few buttons around too.


Seriously though, there are a lot of little tweaks and adjustments under the hood with this service pack, and I am still yet to pin down any real problems (apart from the company database requiring a patch before we can deploy fully).
Even a brief look here should be enough to convince most people of the sense in SP2.

Either way, I can't realistically imagine anyone holding out indefinitely against SP2 - they'd more than likely still be using '95!

Programs that may behave differently in Windows XP Service Pack 2
A list of incompability problems with XP SP2
SP2: incompatibilités records pour la plus importante mise à jour de Windows XP
Sorry the 2 last links are in French

Now, I wonder if 2K-SP4 is more vulnerable/stable than XP-SP1 or XP-SP2. As I have to re-install my computer and XP's gui never worked with me, I wonder nonetheless if it's really more stable than 2K. Notice that I'll only use IE when I'll have too. Thanks in advance.

Yeah, makes great sense to install

"It seems that SP2 for Windows XP isn't as secure as Microsoft touts it to be. Heise Security has uncovered two flaws in SP2's bolstered security measures, both of which may be used to get around the new trusted/untrusted executable origin checks"

Im not going to get into an argument about this (espiecally wiht metahuman as I have found him to be rude and patronising in the past) but why the hell not just prevent urself these problems and switch to Linux...

Wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

Despite the fact that this is a thread regarding Windows XP Service Pack Two, and not a debate over one's choice of operating system, I almost laughed at that one.

Here's my answer:

...because, despite my love of freedom, customisation, and advanced usability, clients like Morgan Stanley and Barclays (and various other important customers) actually seem to prefer a system that:

1) ...they know how to use.
2) ...works with all their existing software.
3) ...works with their own systems.
4) ...doesn't require a genius to work it (bankers not being the brightest bunch in this respect).
5) ...looks, works, sings, and tastes just like Windows.
6) ...is, in fact, Windows!

Not least of all, the average 'muppet-user' is comforted by the fact that they can walk into the next room and use the PC they find in there without having to re-learn the whole system again because it is a completely different flavour, style, and configuration to the one they were just getting used to.

S'funny, that.

Until the rest of the professional world decides that a near globally-uniform operating environment is insufficient for their general needs, I think Linux will remain the reserve of those who obviously know better. In the meantime, the case in point is that some of us have no choice but to consider the implementation of SP2 and the consequences therein - that is, if we wish to remain in business.

Now, this may be significant of all that is wrong with the world, and wouldn't it be nice if we could all just live off the land, be in harmony with the energies of the Universe, and share communal baths... but right now, that is the way of it.

Thanks for the suggestion, anyway.

And you found my post amusing?! Im not a fanboy as I imagine most will infer from what you have said. Your sarcasm, if indeed it is that, is unclear, so I'll assume that you are completely unfamiliar with Linux (otherwise you would spot the numerous fallacies in what you have said), and therefore disreagard your opinion as completely uninformed.

The actual problem, that you failed to mention, is people's lack of knowledge about Linux (and yes, this is _significantly_ different from "...they know how to use.") .

So stop being patronising. I love ozoneasylum, but I hate posts like yours. Take your attitude somehwere else.

Undoubtedly I will get repeatedly flamed for that (or completely ignored) but...well, Im not going to point out the obvious

Wrayal

edit: oh and yeah, I precisely didnt want to turn this into an argument about the merits of the varying operating systems. U turned it into that, I merely suggested an alternative

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

(Edited by wrayal on 08-19-2004 01:22)

*laughing uncontrollably*

Some people are just sooooo easy to bait.

And you even missed the points entirely:
1) Some of us have not the luxury of choice, for business reasons or otherwise.
2) Some others have no clue about anything but Windows, and they tend to pay the wages.
3) This is a discussion about SP2 specifically (though now something else entirely).
4) There is no problem that has anything whatsoever to do with people's knowledge of Linux (or lack of-). in respect of any posts above.
5) The very patronisation you so feared was amply demonstrated by your own patronising post.
6) My use of (or preference for) Linux does not reflect the knowledge or requirements of 'the customer'.
7) The fact that you are reading even this line amuses me to no end.
8) My last post was intended to be amusing - but I make no claims regarding the quality or maturity of my sense of humour.
9) I love baiting, provoking, and otherwise irritating the hell out of you, personally and specifically - and in fact, have had it in for you since the day you were born.

Okay, that last point was bulls, but I think you might be getting the idea by now.

Or maybe not.

Let's experiment with this one:

Wrayal, I order you to reply to this post!

Take your time, of course, if that you so wish...

Wow, I can only imagine the torment you're going through now.

"Do I post and pick at that pathetic line, or should I post and ignore it? Should I not post, or will that look deliberate? Should I argue at all, or am I [and this could be the clincher] just going to provoke more stupidity from this patronising London twit??"

Damn, I wouldn't want to be you right now...

You know what, you're pathetic.
Say what you want, the opinion of someone such as yourself matters not in the slightest to me. And yes, Im being patronising. So sue me. You do not torment me, you do not annoy me. Frankly, you are actually amusing, though not as you are intending to be, that's why I read your post Maybe, you might be able to somehow get me banned from theis forum god knows. Screw it, god might even care

I ORDER YOU TO POST AGAIN

no jokes, its actually really amusing...

wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

You just keep walking into them, don't you?

I have no power to have you banned, sued, castrated, or otherwise educated. If you'd care to check my joining date, I think you'll find that I have no seniority in respect of the time-frame of my membership here. This delusion of inferiority, while endearing, isn't really necessary - I'm not about to break into declarations of "4|)V4|\|C3D l33+|\|3ZZ", or demand that "j00 phj34r my l33+ tekniq" or anything - simply because that is (obviously) beneath me - though I'm sure you'd be terribly impressed and want to have my children or something.

Actually - you can have them. I don't want 'em.

And why do you have to be insulting? I'm so upset, I almost stopped laughing!

You'll notice that I was quite graciously self-deprecating in my previous post - more as an aid to your ego than a genuine attempt at offending myself (which, no matter how hard I try, always seems insincere - I'm not much good at fooling anyone, let alone me).

I'll take no offence at your inelegant outburst in acknowledgement of your confusion over whether or not you are actually having fun. I will, however, point out that from the (albeit, dubious) quality of your previous posts, I expected something rather more inventive (or even, perhaps, amusing) than the keyboard climax you've kindly sprayed across this thread.

I mean, come on! You've thrown my own pathetic ruse right back at me. Do that in a game of chess and I'll have your Bishops burned, your Knights slain, your Queen bedded (repeatedly - I love a good last-rank rush), and your King begging for scraps around the Pawn canteen.

...and I was soooo looking forward to a decent return punch.

You've disappointed me, Wrayal. Go stand in the corner.

...

Oh, bugger it - I can't be mad at you for long. Come back to bed.

I'll have to come back to this, Wrayal, as I'm sure you can appreciate the time (being in the same country and all), and I do have such a long day ahead tomorrow.

I'll log in at lunch and see what lovely little pearls of brain-ejaculate you've left for me.
___

In the meantime, my apologies to anyone who actually expected this thread not to descend into utter bol

Quality of my previous posts? whatever
whether or not Im having fun? Righteous anger turning to patronising amusement. Well yes, a touch confused.
same country? I though u were in england, but hey....
Im not quite sure what ur last post was meant to do? I _think_ appease me. expect for the obsession with ejaculation, but hey. Dont worry, Im not angry or anything, nor tired. More sick. What conceivable reason does a 15 yr old have to be angry at someone who amuses him when all he is doing is trying to pass the time as he waits for straight Cs in his GCSEs....

and some mod, please remove this crap. You guys dont need it filling the fora. Personally, I dont care, Im sick of this forum anyway

U wanted my (brain) ejaculate? There, you got it, now suck it up, I know you want to, so you can post something thinly veiled as an attempt at peace again

Wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

15? From your posts, I assumed a lot younger - or perhaps maybe backward?

Actually - that's a shock.

Cranleigh, Surrey? GCSEs? Hmmm - my confusion; I thought you were in Surrey, England.

No thinly-veiled attempt at peace, my little sparring partner - in respect of your age, I think I might do better to simply leave you be, and refrain from further intellectual putrescence.

Sorry if I made you cry.

Dammit, I nearly got away with that one...

Jesus, you two are so far up your own arses.

Knock it off, ya'll...

...take it to email if need be..

My sincere and unequivocal apologies. I am sorry, both to Wrayal and to everyone else who rightfully considers this recent exchange to be pathetic and immature. I beg your forgiveness, and shall make this my last post under this thread - I obviously have nothing more to contribute.

Yeah guys, Im sorry too (even you white hawk ). But the fact remains, Im out of here

Wrayal

Go to kimber-ja.demon.co.uk and click on the link to the raytracer!

Okay, look - I know I said I wouldn't post here again, but please, Wrayal, don't leave just because I was an ass. I really am sorry, and I'd hate to think that my stupidity ruined your enjoyment of this excellent forum.

I thought I was being funny and clever way, but I wasn't. Not by a long way.

I've set my email under my membership details - please get in contact.

This one really is an attempt at peace.

Why does that seem to come across as sarcastic?

So many bloody people around here argue the point in this place.

"You know you have been doing 3d too long when you walk into a church and think, "God, the polycount of this place must be huge!"

No, Luxo, that wasn't sarcastic - it was an honest apology.

I wasn't arguing any points, but starting a stupid fight. My bahaviour was deliberately obtuse and contrary, and I continued doing it despite the fact that I was aware of the offence it might cause. My behaviour was frankly shameful - and in the process, I may have caused Wrayal's decision to leave this forum.

For that, I am ashamed - and for that, I apologise. I am going to try to send an apology to Wrayal by email, though I'll be cautious that I'm not just bothering the lad.
___

In the meantime: I have been having a few doubts about SP2. The machines I have been testing it on have shown one or two little problems, but nothing I've been able to pin-down specifically. Though general performance seems improved, there are sluggish moments that were not so obvious before SP2 - usually while using Office Applications. Still investigating this.

One machine refused to connect to a WEP-enabled network after application of SP2. Two of us worked to fix this. We removed SP2, but were eventually forced to rebuild the machine with a previous SP1 image. It may have been an isolated problem, as I have yet to reproduce it on any other machine. It may even be possible that the wireless card in this one PC has been damaged, though it is behaving as expected once more.

I'm still pleased with a lot of the changes in SP2, but I think I might wait till they've ironed it out a little. SP2f perhaps? lol

(Edited by White Hawk on 08-22-2004 15:32)

I have installed it for about 2 days just I found out that I can't print anymore on my default printer. So I removed it and all worked fine again. I'm sure you all know about the big 'I dont want to run with SP2' list from microsoft.com :-]

Anyway, I recently found my uninstall backup for SP2 v.2082 (early early beta), and installed SP2 final. Works great. No problems whatsoever.

Just received an email from Head Office that has about fourteen pages of applications and games that won't play nicely with SP2.

Based on this list, I have stopped testing SP2, and will not consider using it in the near future. I have honestly about-faced on the whole SP2 issue, and will stick to using superior third-party security solutions.

One most shocking discovery is that Symantec security software is illicitly disabled by SP2 (so you won't know till it is too late).

Hmmm.