Topic awaiting preservation: The children of Beslan

I am sure many of you have been paying attention to this.

I feel something needs to be said, though what to say is not something I can come to terms with. No expression of outrage, anguish, sympathy or other such things could be sufficiently expressed. No empty and angry calls for vengeance could do more than belittle the situation.

Perhaps then, a moment of silence for the hundreds of dead and wounded children, and their families?

(for anyone who is not aware -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3628432.stm
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/04/russia.school/index.html
)

i was waiting for someone to post this .. nearly posted it myself last night but i couldn't think of anything suitable or adequate to say ...

i think for the moment silence will do..



sun
//...//

I sat and watched this unfold on cnn, and it was a really strange period for me.

I went from being shocked to being numb and then outraged, then just total sadness...

This is just another example of how low some people will stoop to gain what they want, but for the moment our hearts and prayers should be with the families who have been such terror and heartache.

It really is a reflection on society when people shoot children in the back to stop them escaping...

Like you DL i find it very hard to express how i feel and any words of sympathy just seem totally inadequate in comparrison to the events that unfolded before our eyes.. I am just wondering how they feel (those in beslan) if we are like this...

Its just a very sad day for the world in general.

Terrorists don't need a reason, just jeaolousy. They're jealous of everyone around them so they've decided to get rid of them... they make me sick. What did those children ever do to anyone to deserve that!

These guys will burn in Hell anyway so why not just finish them off first!!!

I shut my eyes in order to see | Online Portfolio | Journal | Community | Paintings | Cell #23041

You think you advance as a civilization, and then people go and slaughter children with automatic weapons and fragment bombs. There's no excuse, this was a very cowardly, low act that took lives as innocent as they come. Very sad day...

*mad as hell*

There is a cleric in England who is condoning this behaviour.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/05/wosse705.xml

I'll mourn later, for now just give me a gun and a clean shot... bastards.

Ramasax

(Edited by Ramasax on 09-06-2004 12:10)

It makes no doubt I'm really sad for the city of Beslan and the other victims of this useless war.

But I'm angry toward Vladimir Putin and his constants lies to his people and the world ( btw, it reminds me another president ).

Two weeks ago Russian authorities tried to make believe for several days that the 2 simultaneous plane crashes causing 89 casualties were some mere accidents. Bullshit!

During the events in Beslan, they said to the medias there was no more than 300 or 400 hostages, while we know now that they were more than 1,000 and there's more than 400 casualties ( including the unidentified persons ) and many missing people.

I'm also angry toward Mr Putin for making such an horrible situation possible by harrassing the Chechen people who for its vast majority only want to live in peace. Many other ex-Russian regions have had their independance, why not the Checheny ( Chechnya? ) ? By sending some troops there he's creating his own demons and both the Russian and Chechen people pay a high price for his hard policy.

quote:

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Ramasax said:
I'll mourn later, for now just give me a gun and a clean shot... bastards.

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This is so Ramasax.
The fact that some people behaved cowardly/like animal allows nobody to behave the same way.



(Edited by poi on 09-06-2004 14:55)

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poi said:

But I'm angry toward Vladimir Putin and his constants lies to his people

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This has nothing to with Putin or politics. It sounds like some form of excuse?
Only the most disgusting vile putrid garbage, i won't even debase animals by calling them animals, would commit such an atrocity...why try to find a reason to justify this..you can't ....it's not justifiable. I would exterminate those bastards?slowly.

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Shooting_Star said:

why try to find a reason to justify this..you can't ....it's not justifiable. I would exterminate those bastards?slowly.

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I'm not trying to justify that horrible mess at all. I'm just saying that all that could have been avoided if Vladimir Putin had given the indepence of the Chechnya a long time ago.

And contrary to you, I wouldn't "exterminate those bastards", but track them and give them a fair trial to teach them how civilized human beings behave and what justice is.



(Edited by poi on 09-06-2004 16:36)

Typical Frech reaction. It is always "What could we have done to have brought this on ourselves?"

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The fact that some people behaved cowardly/like animal allows nobody to behave the same way.

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To me it's called justice. Over 150 children dead, and more than 350 total people and you are worried about fair trials and blaming the Russian government. With all due respect, take your sympathizer rhetoric and shove it man.

Islamic extremism in all its forms is a scourge, and the only way to stop them is to kill them, f---ing period!

(Edited by Ramasax on 09-06-2004 20:20)

I've expressed my sympathy toward the families of Beslan.
What do you want more from me ? Don't expect me to follow the law of Thalion.

Whatever, I think that in respect to the children of Beslan we shouldn't talk about revenge or more violence in this thread. Let's repeat a sentence of the opening post by DL-44:

Perhaps then, a moment of silence for the hundreds of dead and wounded children, and their families?



(Edited by poi on 09-06-2004 20:45)

That sort of agony is beyond comprehension. Something has got to be so wrong with a world where people could bring themselves to do something so deplorable, no matter the reason.

Anger and hate?

Plenty of both to go around now, either way.

...and that's a terrible, terrible thing.

(Edited by White Hawk on 09-06-2004 20:44)

Just a note, it's not about revenge, it is about justice and preserving the freedoms of the civilized world for future generations.

A moment of silence is great, but it isn't going to do a lot of good. The time for words and word games are over, action is the language of change.

(Edited by Ramasax on 09-06-2004 21:02)

Give me the lead tank.

Um... where to?

(Edited by White Hawk on 09-06-2004 22:40)

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teach them how civilized human beings behave and what justice is.

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Justice is them being skinned alive, have nail guns shot into their eyes, their limbs cut off and stitching them back up and keeping them alive as long as possible, so they can feel the pain for longer. Then letting their corpses decompose in boar shit.

If not just for revenge, then as a warning for anyone else who wants to do something this horrible.

An eye for an eye,
pain for pain,
the lives of those bastards for the thousands they ended.

Now that I've said that, I'll have my moment of silence.

-----------------------------------------------------
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Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

quote:

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Just a note, it's not about revenge, it is about justice and preserving the freedoms of the civilized world for future generations. The time for words and word games are over, action is the language of change.

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Then do us and the civilized world a favor: Shut up and enlist in the military of your choice already.
Kill some civilians, they´re all potential terrorists anyways. What´s the big deal about torture, you´re fighting terrorism. What´s a little rape on the way, if it helps to break the enemy´s morale, right? Children? Well, they threw stones at your tank, didn´t they? And they´ll grow up to be terrorists anyway... Just call in the airstrike and let god sort ´em out...

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Justice is them being skinned alive, have nail guns shot into their eyes, their limbs cut off and stitching them back up and keeping them alive as long as possible, so they can feel the pain for longer. Then letting their corpses decompose in boar shit.

If not just for revenge, then as a warning for anyone else who wants to do something this horrible.

An eye for an eye,
pain for pain,
the lives of those bastards for the thousands they ended.

Now that I've said that, I'll have my moment of silence.

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You seem to be able to get quite enraged just watching the evening news about something that happened on the other end the world.
Now think about how you would feel if you had been there when your children were killed - can you feel the hatred rising inside you?
How about having your wife and daughter raped before your eyes, your hometown flattened to the ground - and knowing the perpetrators would be called heroes upon arriving home...
That has been the situation for a whole population in chechnya for the last decade, but that´s not covered live on cnn every night, so you probably didn´t know...


I am returning this otherwise good typing paper to you because someone has printed gibberish all over it and put your name at the top.
- An English Professor, Ohio University

I don't know about anyone else here but I say seeing all this wasn't communisim and dictatorship much better!! Atleast all this crap couldn't happen!!!

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MW: Don't be a dick. I'll not shut up. This is a discussion forum, hence I am discussing. Me joining the military would do very little good when the world is full of morons like you who would ultimately have us bow to the demands of sub-human scumbags.

About the rest of your post, I think I will use a modified version of your sig quote: "I am returning this otherwise good orange-brown background to you because someone has typed gibberish all over it and put your name in the left column."

Now quit wasting my time with hippy crap.

tntcheats: How dare you think of doing such things to "freedom fighters." I mean come on, it was only a few children. No harm done and it sure convinced me they are ready for independence.

Templar: Read some history... You want communism and dictatorships, knock yourself out, but I will take the freedom to live my life as I see fit anyday. To each his own I guess.

(Edited by Ramasax on 09-07-2004 05:08)

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I mean come on, it was only a few children. No harm done

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Ramasax like everyone else here you are entitled to your own opinion so I won't say anything against that, just that what you've just said there is that our children are extensible!! How can you even consider that a thought!!

Ok so it was only a few a children no harm done!! Tell me this what if those were your children there! How would you feel, wouldn't you want to get that double barrel out and shoot those bastrads that call themselves freedom fighters in the croch!!

The words freedom and captivity actually mean boundaries, the difference is that the latter has a smaller one. They both have there limits and even if you are a free man you still have humanity to look into!!

Like you said this is a disscussion from and we are disscussing not arguing and I admit we all here say a lot of shit and crap but everyone stays in there limits, what you've just said there that's just... I literally am just all broken up at the thought that someone can actually think like that!

If those people were "Freedom Fighter" then they would've kidnapped the president or attacked a military camp, they would've attacked someone their own size. Now tell me, can those children possible retaliate... NO they cannot. They are stuck there, those "freedom fighters" you call are nothing but a bunch of cowards and terrorists! Instead of going forward and martyr with valor and bravery they've kept innocent children hostage... that is not humanity, that's insanity! The only place they deserve isn't any jail nor any asylum it's to BURN IN HELL!!!

Oh and your little thing about live your life your own damn way, go ahead do as you please just remember like everyone else you're no different. You too will stand on that pedistal and will be judged like all the others in front and behind you. And to stand up there my friend with your head up high knowing your fate is positive... is the only thing I for one live my life for!!






Ramasax if you don't wish to read the whole thing read this atleast:
I do not wish to start a fight or any argument... this is just my opinion like yours! I don't care whether you read the entire post or not all I wish for is for you to think like the victims here which are not the children but the parents. Don't support something you don't have the entre truth on.

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(Edited by templar654 on 09-07-2004 14:24)

(Edited by templar654 on 09-07-2004 14:27)

First of all, the killing of women and children is always a horrible thing, irregardless of why.

However, has anyone even tried to put themselves in the shoes of the Chechnians? Has anyone even looked at what has been done there?

It is horrible, beyond meaning, beyond measure. It is being kept silent, as well. It makes the massacre at Beslan look small. No, what happened at Beslan is not pretty, it is not justifiable, and it certainly was not a nice thing to do.

But neither are the things being done in Chechnya.

Russia needs to look long and hard at the issue, and decide if Chechnya is worth what they are doing there. Because things like Beslan will continue to happen, of that I am sure.

And it neither helps the Russians, nor the Chechnians.

My heart goes out to the parents of the children.

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

I agree with WebShaman. Russia should consider Chechnya and pour more attention there, in a way it is the root of the problem(s)

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quote:

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Ramasax like everyone else here you are entitled to your own opinion so I won't say anything against that, just that what you've just said there is that our children are extensible!! How can you even consider that a thought!!

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I think he was being sarcastic. (Hence the eye rolling)

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think like the victims here which are not the children but the parents.

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Dude, rethink that statement. They are both victims.

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Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

I'm not so sure about the Chechnians, but this whole thing with lawlessness and disorder in Iraq is something I said would happen.

The reason these people are ruled by despots and sadists is because only despots and sadists could govern them. Without dictatorial rule, their society falls apart.

Tribal and religious extremism do not play well with the Western idea of civilised society - yet that is what we are trying to impose upon them. They need someone who will unify them in terror and oppression, because they know no other way.

Take that away, and they tear eachother to pieces.

The Russians have made a similar mistake now. What with all our Western pansy-tactics and poking our noses where they don't belong, Russia is forced to deal with issues in a manner akin to what we in the west might call 'justice' or 'fairness' - but which now smacks of hypocrisy and half-heartedness.

If they were left to deal with things the way they know best, they couldn't have made a worse ***-up of it than they have - and at least then we could have picked on the big bad Russians rather than ranting on about killing yet more men, women and children in response to this latest tragedy.

What these so-called 'freedom fighters' did was awful beyond description, and if I had time alone with one of those bastards, just describing what I'd do to them would probably get me sectioned. If there is a hell, I hope they burn in it.

In the meantime, however, while most of us are still ignorant even of the many attrocities committed by the allies during WWII, how can anybody claim to know the first thing about the history of these modern events - let alone this latest crisis in Russia?

Would you feel it fair to slaughter a few Irish people in retaliation for the evil acts of terror and murder committed by or on behalf of the IRA?

Oops! Britain was supposed to have done that anyway, eh? I get it now, the terror was a retaliation to British slaughter. Long memory your average Irishman, you know?

Oh yeah. I forgot. America funded them, didn't they? Should I demand a similar toll in American lives, then? Oh no - of course - that would make me a terrorist!

...but the IRA 'fought' (meaning, 'killed women and children with bombs at a distance') for the freedom and justice of the Irish people - because, of course, you know that our barbaric and oppressive reign of evil has caused them suffering for centuries, or something like that...

But that's all history now, eh?

Recent world events seem to be encouraging every kind of fanatic, extremist, or would-be 'freedom fighter' to wriggle up from whatever pit they've been occupying, just to throw another sickening attrocity at those they see as having caused their terrible grief and suffering.

Surely they know that these acts only breed hate? Hate just like the hate they feel for those they 'punish'.

...but while it is becoming fashionable to be a terrorist, mind that you don't aspire to become what you hate:

Be angry. Be sickened. Be outraged and grief-stricken and horrified, and by all means express your hatred of these acts of evil - but unless you plan to drop a bomb or two on Chechian schools (already been done, I should think), or maybe flame an orphanage in retaliation, just who the hell are you planning to punish?

"Give me a gun, a bomb, or even a bloody knife, and I'll go repay them for your children..."
...and how long before I'm the next terrorist?




I've said it before, and I'll say it again. the whole human race is FUBAR. Do it properly - drop a bomb on the whole bloody lot of them!

(Edited by White Hawk on 09-07-2004 17:37)

I would just like to say two things

1) most of this is exactly the kind of nonsense I was hoping to avoid with this thread.

This is about the horrible suffering that happened, and will continue because of this atrocious act. It's not about political issues, or justice, or vengeace, or what is right or wrong. The kind of reactionsim displayed in many of these posts is exactly the mindset that leads to such senseless violence in the first place.

2) Call it what you wany, but there is *no* justice in such a situation. Hunting down and punishing the culprits is vengeance, plain and simple. Note that I am not saying it's wrong - but don't dress it up with names like justice just because calling it what it is makes you uncomfortable.

I thought I'd stay quiet and let some spit their hatred. But as I consider myself one of the 3 (first) morons who introduced the twist in this legitimate thread I break that radio silence for one last post. Sorry



(Edited by poi on 09-07-2004 23:32)

quote:

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DL-44 said:

1) most of this is exactly the kind of nonsense I was hoping to avoid with this
thread.

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WTF did you expect? How can this topic not become emotional?
What pisses me off are posts like webshaman's (as if he's been there and seen anything first hand) which seem to say....well yeah but there's a reason these people are angry...wrong

they fucking shot children in the back, children, innocent children...end of fucking story.
they deserve to die in the most cruel and foul fashion.

did i mention they were children? that they were shot in the back while running?

edit: i'm still pissed - so i edited......we shoot rabid dogs...so why don't we shoot rabid scum too?

(Edited by Shooting_Star on 09-08-2004 01:06)

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I feel something needs to be said, though what to say is not something I can come to terms with. No expression of outrage, anguish, sympathy or other such things could be sufficiently expressed. No empty and angry calls for vengeance could do more than belittle the situation. ~DL-44~

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I feel very much the same, but decided to post my thoughts here to simply say, my heart grieves for the children of Beslan and their families.
Any more discussion on the subject I'll leave for another thread.

I don't like leaving on my last post (and have woken to post again) but I think I was trying to say what's just been said, and got it all twisted-up instead. I know we all have things to say, and I think that the world would be a worse place if people were unable to express their reactions to this terrible thing.

Unfortunately DL-44, you opened a vein that was fit to burst. You couldn't possibly have avoided the result, and in that, there is no dishonour.

Beneath it all, I think we all feel pretty powerless. Empathy is one human trait that raises us above the base scum we are capable of being - and love, compassion, the ability to grieve for people we've never met; these are admirable traits which cannot help but instill in most of us an anger and hatred that exceeds rationalisation.
We can all feel for those poor men, women and, especially, children who suffered that ordeal, as well as those who now survive; relatives, friends and neighbours. We have felt this before and I doubt we've felt it for the last time, which is both sad and terrifying in so many ways.

I couldn't bring myself even to fully imagine the terror and grief of those poor people in Beslan, and I can only guess at the years of grief ahead for that whole community so far from the compassion and charity of the rest of the world. Perhaps the coming letters might bring them some comfort, but I doubt anything could after what has happened.

I'd like to believe that our compassion, our shared belief in basic human rights and freedoms, and the tenacity of the human spirit are what may, one day, earn that peace we all hope for - not the hatred, anger, grief and need for vengeance that we feel in their name, however justifiably.

There isn't a single person here who hasn't said something that I've felt like saying, and you all have my respect. I'm sorry if I made it sound any other way.

Political rubbish aside. ()


.

(Edited by White Hawk on 09-08-2004 02:49)

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Tao -
Any more discussion on the subject I'll leave for another thread.

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That is "WTF" I expected, shooting_star.

A bunch of bullshit politicizing is certainly not what I had in mind. All of it is totally meaningless in this context. Period.

What pisses me off is when people can't have a little fucking respect for a situation, and leave their bullshit rhetoric out of it for a change.

I'm with Shooting_Star. These type of topic's are meant to turn emotional. It's possible that one of the inmates is even a parent or relative of one of those kids, then what will you do? This topic was going to turn emotional the minute you wrote the subject.

Like I said before you have to put yourself in the victims shoes and yes the children are the victims but the parents are actually more a victim than the children. Having to stand out there in the cold not knowing whether you child, the child you gave birth to and raised is even alive is literally Hell in it's self.

DL-44 it's not that we're all uncomfortable with these words, because we aren't everyone has a terrorist lurking inside them all it needs is a little spark to light the flame. Just tell me one thing if you were one of the parents or one of the children... would you still consider these words uncomfortable?

I realize people have martyred, killed and commited suicide for that slight ounce of freedom. But like I said before those people fought for freedom, they fought those who could opress not those who were innocent. They were true freedom fighters these are nothing but worthless savages. And I'd know, I live in Pakistan, no one can even imagine how much blood there is in the foundations of this country. Look up the history books, trains filled with bodies would go from city to city and at each station the number of bodies would always increase. Only a hand full of those who fought in these wars are actually considered 'freedom fighters'.

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quote:

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These type of topic's are meant to turn emotional

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Emotional, yes. There is nothing wrong with emotion. It's all the bullshit that got dragged along with it that is problematic.

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Like I said before you have to put yourself in the victims shoes

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Yes, and in so doing you should realize that all these empty words that have been spat around do nothing but belittle the whole situation.

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it's not that we're all uncomfortable with these words

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Clearly some people are, and would rather dress up their notions of vengeance with prettier words like "justice".

Bah. Whatever.
I guess I overestimated the level of respect that might be present here when I posted. Next time I'll just skip the important stuff and start a thread called "spout off your meaningless political rhetoric and phony sense of understanding" thread.

on the news tonight i saw this little girl... absolutely gorgeous ... except for the eyes. they were hauntingly void of expression... as if her ability to feel was broken.

they were the eyes of someone who had witnessed things no 6-year-old should ever have to see.

i choose to believe in the incredible resiliance of human beings, so it is my fervent prayer that this girl will find the emotional reinforcement she needs to live a stable, productive life after what she's been through. others have.

as for the rest of us, empathise. express indignation.. whatever it takes to help you feel a little less powerless about it all.

but when you're finished, be grateful for your children, your families, your freedoms... and for the fact that emotions do not have to dictate what we do next, because it's common sense. like begets like.

terror breeds terror. violence, violence.

and lessons not learned ...



sun
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edited: for clarity (i hope)

(Edited by LaSun on 09-08-2004 18:38)

quote:

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DL-44 said:

I guess I overestimated the level of respect that might be present here when I
posted. Next time I'll just skip the important stuff and start a thread called
"spout off your meaningless political rhetoric and phony sense of understanding"
thread.

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it must be hard for you to be right all the time.

On the other hand, it seems to be exceedingly easy for you to pop-off a whole lot of quick and empty words about just about anything. =)

Difference is, I'm not the one arguing over who's "right" here. Just telling people that all your stupid arguments in this thread are totally meaningless.

right again, can't argue with that kind of logic

quote:

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Clearly some people are, and would rather dress up their notions of vengeance with prettier words like "justice".

Bah. Whatever.
I guess I overestimated the level of respect that might be present here when I posted. Next time I'll just skip the important stuff and start a thread called "spout off your meaningless political rhetoric and phony sense of understanding" thread.

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Who the hell do you think you are DL? You have a massive superiority complex. It's not about vengeance, it's is about bringing those who commit these atrocities, whether by death or imrpisonment, to JUSTICE, and do you know why? So that they cannot do it again and again and again like they have been for the past 30 years! If you want to call that vengeance, then so be it. I should expect no less from you, as I remember distinctly you referring to the "alleged war on terror" which is why I have stayed away for a time.

If you pansy asses in the world would wake the fuck up and see this threat of Islamic Extremism, and yes that is exactly what this was, for what it truly is maybe we COULD actually change things.
They found an 18month old with multiple knife wounds, many of the young girls were raped, they were forced to drink their own urine. That, my friend, must end, and I don't care what it takes to make it happen, but it must happen. The time for talk is over, for the sake of all future generations action must be taken now.

All people like you want to do is talk and feel sympathy and sulk. Well, I feel a lot of sympathy, I shed my tears just like the rest of you, and I am more than obliged to talk, but I don't sulk, that's not going to change the way things are. The only way this will end is if we unite against it and fight it, because the language of violence is all that these cold-blooded low-life scumbags understand, everything else is deemed as weakness and emboldens them more.

So yeah, you;re damn right I get fucking angry, and I think my anger is very much relevant and fitting in this case, and in the case of the 2 airplane hijackings last week, and the bus bombing the week before, and every other senseless PLANNED (note the emphasis here) attack on civilians. Tell me how my anger shows a lack of respect to the victims here? In retrospect, I see your veiled cowardice and wordplay as a major fucking lack of respect. You just don't get it and I am done wasting my time here.

No disrespect intended of course.

Ramasax

"They stabbed babies and raped little girls."

yeah, but the russians were mean to them...so shouldn't we feel sorry for these poor terrorists?

we should try to better understand their hatred, become friends with them. right?

WRONG AGAIN.

these bastard, scumsucking, POS terrorists need to be terminated...end of story...

now go argue with yourself.

First, I agree - terrorists should be exterminated .

Before I begin, I'll state that I don't think it disrespectful to be angry about events like these, but I also don't feel that it is cowardice to want to demonstrate or express something other than mindless aggression in the face of irreconcilable events. Anybody who bandies such nonsense is way off the mark and missing the point - but that's nothing to get pissy over anyway.

That's it.

Now I'll lower myself to this, though I'm already ashamed of having wasted my energy on it. I'll print it small so you don't have to read if you don't want to. I'd suggest that anybody who is easily offended just skips this one entirely.
___

What a F***ing stupid thing to write! Nobody is asking anybody to feel sorry for terrorists! How about one of you climbs back down out of your own arse for a bit and actually reads something once in a while? And I don't mean the Mirror either - a pathetic excuse for a wank-rag if ever I read one!

The whole f***ing point is that nobody knows who's gonna' turn out to be a terrorist. What are you going to do?! Are you going to go around asking people, "Excuse me, but are you a terrorist by any chance - only, if you are, I'm going to have to shoot you in the face. No? Okay - know anyone who is?"

It's all very well screaming for revenge - but who are you going to get satisfaction from? The children of the people who live in the same town as a guy who may have been involved with the terrorists? Might as well be, because those children are the ones who are going to come for your children's children with all the same fury and lust for 'justice' that you so vacantly harp on about now!

Terrorism works because it is covert and concealed right up until they find your sweet spot and rip it right out of you. That is the whole point, and the whole reason why people are arguing with you. It's not about whether it is right to feel hatred for the terrorists, or to want vengeance - it is about the pointlessness of saying "let's kill them all". trust me - if several international intelligence agencies can't spot a terrorist, you sure as hell f***ing can't either!

Here's another alternative - strike back at them the way they've struck at the Russians. Go kill a few people in the name of justice and see how quickly they learn a lesson. Do you think the people who suffer because of your vengeance are going to go all gooey on you? "Oh, thank you for shooting my son for me - he was always so caught up in spouting off about justice for my poor murdered family, I feared he might be a terrorist!"

And, by the way, I think saying that the Russians were mean to anyone is a little bit of an understatement. Ah, screw it, understatement? The f***ing Russians have systematically raped women and children for fun throughout almost every campaign they've ever been involved in, then played lovely little games with their still-living broken bodies; for instance, bayonet-f**ing them, nailing them up and taking pot shots, or simply setting them alight and seeing what they do. They had a great time doing it to the Germans and the Poles (indiscriminate, huh?) during WWII, and show every sign of following their wonderful traits in modern conflicts.

In fact - nobody is all sweet and innocent. I can think of very few countries that haven't got some very black marks against their historical conduct.

I tell you what - let's take the acts of these sick, depraved, dispicable scum terrorists as representative of their entire culture/race/religion (hell, species!) eh? Let's just slaughter the whole f**ing lot of them! Let's hunt them down and put them in extermination centres - call them labour camps for the media! Will that do for justice? They've been suffering it for generations anyway, ffs, so wtf difference does it make?

While we're at it, let's go and finish off the Iraqis - they're only going to breed more terrorists, aren't they? Hell, why not wipe out the f***ing catholics while we're at it? They get a lot of fanatics, and their priests are always fiddling with kids, aren't they? What about Jews? Don't trust'em. Just round 'em up too. And blacks next? They cause a lot of crime, yeah? How about college drop-outs? They're a waste of space. Goddammit! We're surrounded by potential filth!
Let's just vet anyone who isn't you, yeah? Can't go wrong there.

You are so full of s**t that you're vomiting it.

Anyone who didn't get that and thinks I'm insulting them is obviously an idiot and worth insulting, so I make no apologies. I can't believe how ludicrously obtuse some people can be. They know what the argument is, what the sentiments are, and decide to argue that a perfectly reasonable and rational point makes someone a sympathiser of terrorists. That is such pure unadulterated bollocks.

___

If I'm standing in a club full of people and somone knocks my pint over, I get upset. I try to find out who it was, and I demand 'justice' (in this case, another pint) - but what would be the point in running around screaming about killing the bastards who did it? Shall I just run around knocking pints over? Why don't we all just do it?


Short answer: We already are.

Shooting_Star

quote:

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What pisses me off are posts like webshaman's (as if he's been there and seen anything first hand) which seem to say....well yeah but there's a reason these people are angry...wrong

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First of all, you really assume a lot, don't you? No, I haven't actually been to Bethlan, nor have I been in Chechnya (nor would I want to). But I know the region well. You say there is no reason(s). Really? How much do you know about Chechnya?

The slaughter of the Chechnyans is a horrible thing. They stood up for independence, and the Russians answered with no. The conflict rapidly escalted into violence. It is still going on.

quote:

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"They stabbed babies and raped little girls."

yeah, but the russians were mean to them...so shouldn't we feel sorry for these poor terrorists?

we should try to better understand their hatred, become friends with them. right?

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You call mass rape, mass executions without cause (other than outright anger), and genocide just being mean?

I don't think anyone is saying feel sorry or become friends here. Instead, what more level-heated inmates are saying is, examine the roots of the problem, and understand why it happened!

Because by turning a blind-eye to the root causes is not helping matters at all. By de-humanizing the humans that carried out the events at Bethlan, you are doing the human race a disfavor, and not contributing towards an environment, where a solution can be found.

You should ask yourself, what drove them to enact such extremes of violence?

I also want to thank DL, for maintaining a level head, and supplying us with a rather decent thread to express our grief for the children and parents of Bethlan. It is too bad that some others used this thread to bleat out useless dogma, and mindless shouts for vengeance and death.

This thread is supposed to be about recognizing that human beings have suffered, died, and have been traumitized and reacting accordingly in a dignified manner!

If you wish to rant, then do it in your own thread, please.

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

it's a bit too late to save this thread, i think. maybe we should let it go and open a new one for more respectful discussion of the situation in Beslan. i'm following the story very closely and would love to discuss it with anyone more familiar with the region and with the history behind the tragedy ...

oh, very good idea, sun. off to do that now

--------------
no. damn it.

*stands to leave with LaSun*

I'm with you on that one.

quote:

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WebShaman said:

If you wish to rant, then do it in your own thread, please.

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fuck you

ahhhhhh, *now* we're getting intellectual.

Finally!

for everyone, from me:



edit: oof, considering the originalthreadmatter that^ seemed a bit off to say the least, just wanted to clarify that I'm not heartless on the issue, just felt the need to contribute to the derailment. That_is_all.

(Edited by JKMabry on 09-10-2004 01:11)

I love this forum!

(Edited by White Hawk on 09-10-2004 02:08)

Shooting_Star, if you are going to de-evolve into vulgarities, then take it to mail.

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

quote:

---

If I'm standing in a club full of people and somone knocks my pint over, I get upset. I try to find out who it was, and I demand 'justice' (in this case, another pint) - but what would be the point in running around screaming about killing the bastards who did it? Shall I just run around knocking pints over? Why don't we all just do it?

---

What if someone kills your children? Wouldn't, with your example, you take their lives? Just like knocking your pint over and you knocking theirs over in return. Cause I don't think they're exactly able to give you another kid.

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funny websites | funny signatures | funny jokes

Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

tntcheats, it is not so easy to take someone elses life. And the reprecussions of doing so, are really far reaching.

That said, this thread really isn't the place to discuss such...why don't you moessy on over to the other Beslan thread?

WebShaman | Asylum D & D | D & D Min Page

I won't post again in either.

And I guess I can understand, somewhat, the reprocussions.
So I guess this is the first time in a while I've seen an opinion swayed.

-----------------------------------------------------
funny websites | funny signatures | funny jokes

Ozone Asylum KILLED my inner child.

(Edited by tntcheats on 09-10-2004 16:28)