Topic awaiting preservation: Creating a vector image from a raster image

Hi,

I am a novice at graphic design. I started designing logos simply by creating a tight colored pencil drawing and then scanning it and saving as a jpg. Now I have a few more logos under my belt designed in adobe photoshop. While working on my last one I realized that I don't have a clue. I gave my client raster files but I need to learn how to use a vector program and deal with color also. I have Corel Draw 8 but I dont know how to do it.

AnnieJo

Practice, practice, practice...

One thing you can do is import the jpg into cdr and set the view to wireframe. The jpg image will become greyed and you can trace it by hand with the draw tool. Holding it down and drawing will give you a many noded line... lots of clean up.

Try double clicking every so often around the edges [double clicks create new nodes] so you get as few points as possible, straight lines are ok in the beginning phase.

Then use the node select tool, select all nodes, and convert to curves.

Now, when you click on individual nodes little handles will pop out and you can adjust them to get the "line" to follow the curves. Also, grabbing the line at different places and adjusting it's position can change the curve features....

Good luck.

______________
Is This Thing On?

Webbing; the stuff that sticks to your face.

Your topic implies that you want to know if there is an automate way to convert a raster image to a vector image. No there isn't. Tracing the raster image by hand as UnknownComic was describing is about the only way you have to convert a raster image to a vector image.


.

-- not necessarily stoned... just beautiful.

or you can take it into Photoshop, desaturate it, run curves to get some good contrast, blur it a wee bit, import the result into Flash and do trace bitmap on it. Flash will thn export several formats that are good to go in Illustrator

You might want to try the 'OCR-Trace 8' program included with Corel 8. It's under Graphic Utilities...and depending on the complexity of the logo it may well worth your time to learn how to use it.

One of its nicer features is that it can import Photoshop files PSD. You'll have to determine which trace works the best... 'outline/centerline and you will have to convert it to B&W but you will end up with a 'vector' image which you can then drop into CorelDRAW and reintroduce your colours. ..and then you can save it out in an acceptable format.

Read and re-read the help file...gotta get your hands dirty... no way around it.

Good luck =)

It's a pretty good little trace program when it gets right down to it.

http://www.silhouetteonline.com/

I use it , it works, there's a free trial, there will always be some editing to do.

~vectors are your friend~

(Edited by kromaZ on 11-26-2004 15:12)

Thanks for the advice, I will give it my best shot. in the meantime, I am really interested in learning the ins and outs of graphic design so that I can give my clients what they need. Does anyone know of any good books or online courses that will help me get started? I have found the Corel Draw manual to be a bit cumbersome. Incidentally, what do graphic designers use adobe photoshop for?? If vector drawings are the norm is it not a good idea to design in a raster program? Do you provide your clients with both a raster and a vector image? I have done 3 raster logos so far and they have reproduced into print well as business cards, flyers and letterhead. I understand that a vector image is needed for large scale renderings such as billboards and signs. I am really more of a fine artist, I paint portraits and murals. But the demand for logos keeps me coming back to these projects where I feel out of my element. I have this arrogant notion that I can promise something to a client and then figure out a way to make it happen. P. S. I have noticed that most graphic designers refer to Adobe Illustrator is it a head and shoulders better application than Corel Draw? Oh, and whats the deal with channels? Is it okay to use pantone colors with the picker tool or do I have to create channels to get an accurate hard copy? How do you do this? I have tried using the help index and found it to be very cryptic. How do you calibrate your monitor to reflect the most accurate color on your screen? Can I change an RGB image into a CMYK by simply adjusting the mode of the file? will my clients need both to give to their printer?

AnnieJo

quote:

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hyperbole said:

Your topic implies that you want to know if there is an
automate way to convert a raster image to a vector image. No there
isn't.

---

Really?

How do I convert a graphic from raster to vector format?

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

Well your not asking for a lot are you? This could get long.......

I will try to go over a few basic points, but it takes training and experience. If you should look into professional techincal school or private training. Not to discourage you but the programs I attended at Hennipen Techinical Collage were Print Production I, II, and Color Prepress, each being 15 month programs, and that was long before Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark existed. So get ready for the long hall.

quote:

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Incidentally, what do graphic designers use adobe Photoshop for??

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Adobe Photoshop, is at an image editing application, and is best suited for editing and correcting photographs and continuous tone images. It has evolved over the years to be so much more but it?s still best suited for photographic imaging. It is resolution dependent, meaning that you must take the resolution of the final output into account.

Here is an example:

Let?s say you have a logo, that you created for a website. Which would be produced at screen resolution, Meaning 800 px = 800px on screen. Most monitors reproduce somewhere around 72-96 ppi. But take that same logo and send it to an inkjet or imagesetter it will appear pixilated.

So for print the same logo would need to be produce at 300-1200 ppi depending on the type of image and output device. Color and Grayscale photographs are prepared for conventional printing are typically prepared around 240-380 ppi depending on equipment and workflow, Line art (Think, black and white clip art.) is typically prepared at 600-1200ppi depending again on equipment, detail in the image, and workflow.

[There is much more to this but that?s a 2 hour class on it's own.]

Adobe Illustrator, Macromedia Freehand, and Corel Draw are vector-drawing applications. The majority of image elements are mathematically defined and thus resolution independent. With in reason, Postscript does have a limit, if I remember correctly it?s 2000 or 2400 percent.) Which makes them perfect for logos, illustrations that you either A: Don?t know the final usage for or B: Need to frequently retarget for different media.

quote:

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If vector drawings are the norm is it not a good idea to design in a raster program? Do you provide your clients with both a raster and a vector image?

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It depends on the project and the design. A good designer needs to learn what applications are best suited for each project based on the desire results. One can achieve the same results using several methods. Just like you can make carrot juice with a hammer, blender, or a Power Juicer. But speed, quality, and usability all depend on your method of production. Not every design can be realized using vector element, some my need to be produce using raster element or a combination of the two.

A good designer should be able to achieve quality results from both, Adobe Illustrator, Freehand or Corel Draw. While Adobe Illustrator is the defector standard in the professional print world. Adobe created Postscript the language used to drive most professional printing equipment. So it only natural that Adobe product would integrate the best in this workflow. If you know what you are doing there is no reason you couldn?t get quality results from Corel Draw or Freehand.


The only real problems occur when using Corel?s or Freehand?s native file formats as most publishing applications don?t except there native format. In which case you should simply use EPS or PDF when delivering files to vendors or clients. For logo work I often supply my working files along with an EPS, a PDF, and window media format (WMF) just incase they need them for use in MS office suite. Most of the other problems are user error, you must know how to properly perpare your files and what are each applications limits.

This is a little advanced but I include it just for completeness.

Color management has been an issue in the past when working in RGB in Corel Draw and Freehand color management is best left turned off. The problem with Corel Draw was it fails to embed the profile in the document so you either have to remember or record which profile you used so you can apply the same profile if opened in another application or on a different machine. (This could have changed but I only have freehand 10 and have used Corel draw for years.)

quote:

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Is it okay to use pantone colors with the picker tool or do I have to create channels to get an accurate hard copy? How do you do this?

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Color for print reproduction, while my speciality and favorite subject, it's far too large a subject for me to go though on a forum. There is lots of great info via Google on this. Here are a few hits to get you started or you could hire me.

http://www.pantone.com/products/products.asp?idArticle=683&idArea=12
http://www.printindustry.com/newsletter_6.htm
http://graphicdesign.about.com/library/weekly/aa060399.htm
http://www.printstop.com/tips/tips_color.html

How do you calibrate your monitor to reflect the most accurate color on your screen?

Well first your should never trust fully trust your monitor.
There are devices, which will aid in controlling on screen color, check out http://www.colorvision.com but this yet another subject large to cover here and calibrating you monitor is realy just the first step.

If you are serious about, color calibration it you should read ?Real World Color Mangement? by Bruce Fraser, Chris Murphy, and Fred Bunting. The second half dealing with application specifics is perhaps not the easiest read for a novice. The rest is explained very well. It's a must read if you what to get accurate color calibration.

For accurate color you should also getting a proof from the printer who will be running the job. They should sign off on that proof, and match that proof with in their defined tolerances, which should be discussed and agree upon prior to the job going to press.

quote:

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Can I change an RGB image into a CMYK by simply adjusting the mode of the file?

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Again Yes and No, it depends.

Yes, you do convert a RGB image to CYMK by changing the image mode. But?.., and a big but. For best results, you?ll need the proper setting; which are different for every printer, press type, and workflow. Using the Adobe Photoshop's defaults will work ok, but who what's ok color? The default's produce a happy medium at best, designed to produce acceptable results across the widest array of possable workflows. It's best to consult with the printer prior converting RGB to CYMK.

Also keep in mind that not all possible RGB colors are reproducible in CYMK. A color change will occur, and will need to be planned and compensated for. If you work in RGB always keep the RGB origial with profiles embeded. You never know when you may need match a different target for a future press run.

quote:

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will my clients need both to give to their printer?

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My best advice ask your client or printer.

Here are some sites with tutorials and articals to check out, Perhaps they will help:

http://www.dtp-aus.com/ -- This is a great site lots of good info.
http://www.creativepro.com/front/home -- Lots of good article in there archives.
http://studio.adobe.com/


I would also consider getting these books:

Getting It Printed: I recommend this book for students.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0891348581/qid=1101875612/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-2907860-6830308

Graphic Desinger's Digital Printing and Prepress Handbook
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1564967743/qid=1101875612/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/104-2907860-6830308


Pocket Pal: A Graphic Art Production Handbook: A must have referance for every designer.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0883623382/qid=1101875750/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-2907860-6830308

Pocket Guide to Digital Prepress:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0827371985/qid=1101875750/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/104-2907860-6830308


Real Work Color Management:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0201773406/qid=1101875825/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-2907860-6830308?v=glance&s=books


Professional Photoshop: The Classic Guide to Color Correction:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764536958/qid=1101875865/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/104-2907860-6830308

Hope this help.

J. Stuart J.



(Edited by jstuartj on 12-01-2004 06:54)

On the subject of raster to vector, there are application that can do this. But the results are varied. I find I spend more time cleaning up the "auto" traced files. Then would take me to simply tracing the logo by hand. And the result reproduce far better ane are more realiable in Quark, InDesign, and at the imagesetter or RIP, etc....

A Short Tip:

The higher the resolution the orginal scan the better the tracing will be. I believe the Adobe Streamline manual recommends scanning originals at 600ppi. Advice which can be applied to similar applications.

I do find auto tracing of 72 ppi, web-designed logos mostly useless. I most cases there is simply not enough data for Adobe Streamline to work with.

J. Stuart J.

WoW! Amazingly informative post there, jstuartj. Nice job!

quote:

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jstuartj said:

If you know what you are doing there is no reason you couldn?t get quality
results from Corel Draw or Freehand.

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I must add that Corel Draw is a great program... it comes with 1000's of fonts and can do multiple pages with great ease... I first learned vector graphics with CorelDraw4 so... my bias is there.

It exports to pdf and imports up to AI 8 on CorelDraw10... I am not sure what CorelDraw8 Imports up to.
But, on pdf, it uses the term "publish to pdf" and seems to "print" the file to the pdf document. This makes things real convenient. I know many printers use pdf directly on their "press". And of course ai and ps handle pdf's created in CorelDraw very well. I have one guy who "loves" ai and wants all files in that format so I needed to find a way to get good conversions from cdr. Obviously eps and dxf are good all around interchangeables but the pdf's are kinda cool.

One tip is to include as much info in the pdf as possible, especially font info. Ai gets a little testy when opening fonts.

I just seem to find that cdr is more intuitive than ai... for me.

The node handling in cdr is a lot different than in ai, unless I am missing a switch in ai. It just seems like there is less control and a more complicated way of controlling the vectors in ai. I can click on a node in cdr and the handles pop out for easy handling or I can grab the line itself and change the curve that way. In ai it seems as if I have limited control over the "paths".

Am I missing something?

The best thing I've found with ai is the ability to use the brush tools to "spray" spiders across a page, but that's just me.

______________
Is This Thing On?

Webbing; the stuff that sticks to your face.

Don't know, I have never need anything other then Illustrator. Different strokes for different folks. It's just what you get use to I started with Illustrator and before that what was Aldus Freehand at the time.

I found Corel Draw, better suited towards office graphics, targeting Power Point, Word, Publisher etc... Projects destanded for laser, color copier, or inkjet output. Corel's Postscript and EPS support has always been lack luster. Where is Illustrator is more production oriented, and is geared more towards the professional CYMK print market.

(Edited by jstuartj on 12-01-2004 09:59)

J Stuart J.

Thank you for sharing a wealth of valuable information with me. I feel like a just opened a door to a cram-packed closet and everything spilled out on me! I obviously have light years to go before I can provide what trained graphic designers can. However, since the topic keeps coming my way and I have more than a casual interest in it I will do my best to learn. Thanks for the great links and such.

AnnieJo

Believe me, I have seen my share of "trained" designers don't understand most of it or worse know it so wrongly that they think they are right and can do no wrong. But I perfer the ones that have money then care. It seam most design programs cover very little of this subject and desinger are force learn on the job, which could lead to some expensive hard lessons.

Be sure to communcate with your printer, the best desigers establish a partnership with there printers. Consider there advice strongly. But keep in mind they'er also in business to make money. So don't follow advice blindly. If you don't understand why, don't be afraid to question it further. Any printer worth using should we willing to explain exactly what they need to produce an acceptable design if not find another.

J. Stuart J.

Believe me, I have seen my share of "trained" designers don't understand most of it or worse know it so wrongly that they think they are right and can do no wrong. But I perfer the ones that have money then care. It seam most design programs cover very little of this subject and desinger are force learn on the job, which could lead to some expensive hard lessons.

Be sure to communcate with your printer, the best desigers establish a partnership with there printers. Consider there advice strongly. But keep in mind they'er also in business to make money. So don't follow advice blindly. If you don't understand why, don't be afraid to question it further. Any printer worth using should we willing to explain exactly what they need to produce an acceptable design if not find another.

J. Stuart J.