Topic awaiting preservation: The US' torture network

This has come up before:

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/22138

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/22225

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/22292

but they are all in the Sink now.

This report focuses on the Jetstream being used to transport detainees to places with more leewy on what is considered acceptable:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6757281

The ability of blogs to investigate and spread information is interesting too.

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Heh - caught the Agency with their pants down, looks like. Not like that is really new news...just out in the open.

Wonder who screwed the pooch?

Hmmm... I can't load that article. According to Firefox it tries to hand me some bad cookies then redirect me a whole bunch of times.


Justice 4 Pat Richard

the article won't load for me either, something about redirection for this url exceeded

I have a copy of it around here somewhere if people are still interested.

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

Sure am... and I'd love ot know what's really funky with that site besides the fact it's owned by microsoft.


Justice 4 Pat Richard

The article itself is just more conjecture based on partially investigated claims. Not tht I am defending the CIA, which has always done things in secrecy, but there are far too many unanswered and unexplored questions to simply assume that it is being used to transport prisoners for torture.

In any case, for anyone interested, I believe this is the original article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A27826-2004Dec26

quote:

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Emporer: The ability of blogs to investigate and spread information is interesting too.

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The ability of blogs to spread disinformation is also interesting, and scary. Will there be any real "truth" in the future, or just factions of humanity dissemating their own biased opinions? If the latter is the case, in the age of information, what hope do we have or ever truly coming together?

Ramasax

quote:

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The ability of blogs to spread disinformation is also interesting, and scary.

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Why should governments and news agencies have the monopoly on disinformation?

One of the arguments pro-gun-ownership is always that every citizen should have the possibility fight back should his own government or a foreign power threaten his freedoms. I sympathize with this argument although I think for people in the first world both are not too real concerns for the near future.

Information/disinformation is a weapon too, and a very powerful one in today´s world - so I think that´s certainly a front where everybody should have the possibilty and the right to fight back.

quote:

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Will there be any real "truth" in the future

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Is there any real truth now? I don´t think so. It already depends on which sources you trust. There is no such thing as an unbiased source.

quote:

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, or just factions of humanity dissemating their own biased opinions? If the latter is the case, in the age of information, what hope do we have or ever truly coming together?

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As I said, I think this is already the case and has been so since long before the advent of written language.
The chances of coming together are greater than ever; because with increased wordwide information flow everyone can get the same information.


Duct tape is like the force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together....
- Carl Zwanzig

As I recall, it was twitch^ that screwed the pooch.

:::11oh1:::

That poor poor pooch. We never really did get it rehabilitated, did we?


Justice 4 Pat Richard

A bit article looking at various memos made available and the British invovlement in developing some of these torture techniques and leaving a legal door open for it to be sued:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,1417225,00.html

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

More:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7164399/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1438982,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,,1439904,00.html

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

The title of the third article sums it up well, "One huge US jail." Omit US though Emps, because from what I hear you guys just passed your "Patriot Act" (Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005) as well. Or is that Patriot Act II for you? I am still catching up with the thousands of pages of legislation here which I had largely ignored.

quote:

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From article 1 above: The CIA has kept details of rendition cases a closely guarded secret, but has defended the controversial practice as an effective and legal way to prevent terrorism.

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Effective and legal, sure. Of course, we must look to the USC to define terrorism (Title 18, Section 2331, as amended by Sec. 802 of the PA) to find out that hey, we're all terrorists.

quote:

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(5) the term ?domestic terrorism? means activities that?
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended?
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.

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I'm no lawyer, but I can read the writing on the wall here. If what was formerly a criminal prosecution is now defined as terrorism, the civil rights of a citizen are out the window.

With regard to foreigners:

quote:

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(1) the term ?international terrorism? means activities that?
(A) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended?
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum;

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Already I have seen most of the Bill of Rights dismantled (1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 9th amendments), and have not even gotten through the 300+ pages of PA1. I am a little afraid to read the second.

Waking up pissed me off. Fogive my semi-off-topic rant.

Ramasax

quote:

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Ramasax said:

The title of the third article sums it up well, "One huge US
jail." Omit US though Emps, because from what I hear you guys just
passed your "Patriot Act" (Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005)
as well. Or is that Patriot Act II for you? I am still catching up with
the thousands of pages of legislation here which I had largely ignored.

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Oh yeah we are not only in that same pit as the US (we own Diego Garcia), etc. but we seem to want to throw away our Human Rights willy nilly.

Its a question that I have asked before but no one has ever had an answer to - we were under constant terrorist threat for decades with actual bombs and killings and yet we never needed such Draconian measures and yet we are now told that terrorits actions have been foiled (although this, when it is possible to find anything solid out, turns out to be distortions bordering on lies) and somehow we need the ability to imprison people on the say so of the Home Secretary largely because we are one of the few countries left in the world which won't allow legal wire taps as evidence in court.

Basically if they've commited crimes then i want to see them locked up in jail but if we can't actually prove anything how do we know we aren't just making the same mistakes we have made in the past when we have imprisoned people for long periods because the authorities wanted to be seen to be doing something: Bridgwater 4, Birmingham 6, etc., etc.

The updated PoT Act has been rather stalled and watered down because of the huge concerns over it but its still not good that we even think we need this.

___________________
Emps

The Emperor dot org | Justice for Pat Richard | FAQs: Emperor | Site Reviews | Reception Room

if I went 'round saying I was an Emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!