Topic awaiting preservation: How to tell if you are a Creationist (Page 2 of 2)

^ Nice diagram.

Webshaman- Sorry for posting twice I have very very poor memory skills. As far as what I mean. I am not sure I had a real meaning behind that quote other than mischief. And yes I am only using part of your post fopr that mischief I am merely pointing out that there are points in which you are not arguing completely evolutionistic stuff. Also I haven't seen any real differance between this thread's content and the evolution vs creation thread. Other than this one seems to make Gideon a more specific target for attacks.

Briggl- Here is the 3rd side of the evolutionism vs. Creationism fight. (yes fight it is no longer a debate but merely mud-slinging from both sides)
It is entirely possible that while there is some sort of 'divine' being that created stuff that, that stuff, after being created evovled.

History is nothing but a fable that has been agreed upon.
-Napolean Bonaparte

DL, not really. Just telling me that point comments are away from a point that I am making doesn't help me much to understand why you feel that way. If you told me why they are away from the point I would be glad to correct it.

It is a nice diagram, though. Well thought out.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Hmmm...

I accept that Evolution is a fact - the exact model of it is still being studied. Now, that doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with a deity, higher being, etc, so long as one does not take a stance that precludes a creator that is in difference to the fact of evolution!

That means - maybe there is a creator, and maybe that creator set evolution into being as its way of affecting the creation of living things. Now, that is entirely plausible. I personally have seen no evidence of this, but then, I have also not seen any evidence against it.

It is also entirely possible, that a creator first created things through the big bang, for instance, and all the rules were then put in place.

It is also possible, that everything is happening naturally, without a creator.

I tend to believe in the last option, a "Super Nature".

@ DL - told ya so!

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Gideon said:

To many Creationists the Creation is treated like a law (gravity for example). Now, I understand how this is a bad view point to have. Understandable, but bad for a scientist as you have commented. Or is it? Having a basis for further experimentation is kinda key to some experiments isn't it?

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Yes, having a basis for further experimentation is part of the scientific process. But when the experiments do not support the theory, the theory has to change.
With "Creation Scientists", when the experiments do not support the theory (the literal Biblical account of creaton), they try to find explanations about why the theory is still good, rather than changing the theory to fit the results.

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Sangreal said:

Briggl- Here is the 3rd side of the evolutionism vs. Creationism fight...
It is entirely possible that while there is some sort of 'divine' being that created stuff, that stuff, after being created, evovled.

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That is not a third side. It is one option on the "evolutionism side".
Either:
1) God always existed, and created "stuff" that then evolved, or
2) the "stuff" always existed and evolved.

Both options are much more likely than that God created "stuff" a few thousand years ago and also planted evidence of millions of years of evolution at that time.

WS, that is the exact mindset that I had not 6 months ago. You hit the nail on the head. And there are many who believe that. I, personally, don't for many reasons. Those reasons (if I get enough time for it) are going to appear on that other thread, and I would rather not put them here.

You are right Briggl. Biblical Creationists do that. At least most of that. You see, most Biblical Creationists are stubborn, and you will agree with me on that (maybe that should have been in the "how to tell if you are a Creationist" thread ). But they are stubborn because they don't want to abandon the Bible's teachings. But they don't just abandon the results. They dig deeper. More often than not, they find somethings that are incredible. I hope to look at a Creation lab's site some time soon, and it should be quite enlightening.

About the 3rd party, I think Sangreal is right there. It is more of a sub party to the Creationist party, but it is almost different enough that most people consider it a different party.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

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But they don't just abandon the results. They dig deeper.

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Horseshit.

Plain and simple.

We've been through this over and over. Every artilce you have ever posted from 'aig', and any that I've nosed around and read, is full of people coming up with complete bullshit in the pretense of explaining away real science.

They don't "dig deeper", they shuffle and juggle until they can confuse simple minds with half-ass nonsense.

Perfect example: you posted an article which purported to refute the process of fossilization.
It's key point: there is a water fall in (engalnd?) rich with limestone sediments which encrsuts objects places in it's path in a matter of weeks as opposed to the millions of years that fossilazation requires.

This is the tactic of creation "scientists". They find one issue, and then replace with something distantly related, and "disporve" the something distantly related claiming that it disporves the original issue.

In a sense you are right - they dig awful deep into the pile of bullshit for their answers...

*Watches Gideon dig around in shit*

Maybe He can use the diagram that DL so carefully created as a sort of "treasure" map.

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DL-44 said:

This is the tactic of creation "scientists". They find one issue, and then
replace with something distantly related, and "disporve" the something
distantly
related claiming that it disporves the original issue.

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No, that is a perfect example of finding an instance in our world today and trying to extrapolate that into the past. They were saying that if this happens now, could it be what happened then? They are not doing a "bait-and-switch" argument, but finding some facts that might lead to a conclusion.

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DL-44 said:

Every artilce you have ever posted from 'aig', and any that I've nosed around
and read, is full of people coming up with complete bullshit in the pretense of
explaining away real science.

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Would you go to a Creation site to try and prove your way of thinking? I doubt it. I go to these sites because they have real information about Creation. DL and WS, I just wish you could understand how dumb your argument sounds. You keep pushing off these websites because they contradict your views. Would you be pleased if I did the same? When I try and tell you that these men and women are reputable scientists, you assume that they all make up their findings! Why? And don't even think about saying "because they do" because that is not a reason. And unless you think you know science better than a scientist, don't say because their arguments are faulty.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

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You keep pushing off these websites because they contradict your views.

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~weeps into his hands~

I will say only this: no, you are incorrect. they contradict their *own* views, and they contradict reality.

The rest of what you said.... I am truly done trying to have a reasonable conversation with you.

Good luck in your search.

Bye.

^Truly an outstanding example of incredible patience. My respect DL.

However, I think I told you that in this case it was in vain.

Well, since you are done with him, and I am, as well, are there any other takers who wish to attempt to continue a dialog with him? If not, I guess we can let this thread die.

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink" - I think this thread (and others) have proven this without a doubt.

I gave up many days ago. As I said Gideon and the likes are doomed. May their god bless their ignorance.

Yah WS, give it the quietus.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

If you guys are done, then I guess I am too. But you still haven't answered my question. Oh well.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

Your questions were all answered. You just dop't want to hear the truth and the facts.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

What truth and facts? I just hear people calling others uneducated fools. I don't hear any facts going around.

Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

That's what I said.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)

No that's what I said, you said:

quote:

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Ehtheist said:

Your questions were all answered. You just dop't want to hear the truth and the
facts.

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Then I said:

quote:

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Gideon said:

What truth and facts? I just hear people calling others uneducated fools. I
don't hear any facts going around.

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Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you, rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

What, shall we retype the hundreds of posts so far in which we have offered a wide array of scientific fact, and links for further reading on scientific fact, just so that you can once again ignore reality for the sake of your 'happy place'?

Your questions have been answered. Sorry you didn't care to learn anything from the answers.

If you are unsure about what the answers were, the re-read several threads in which we've talked about the issues.

If you're still not happy with them - that's your issue...

Here is a little more fuel for the pyre.

The first part of Genesis, ya know where the alleged god played in the mud? It was written about 500 years AFTER the second part, when this allegation supposedly created Adam and Eve.

Furthermore the serpent in Eden was in fact a political jab at the Caananites, who held the snake in high esteem.

So, what you have here is a long-standing political diatribe where-in various writers tried to make political hay at the expense of their opponents. Like all matters political, long on promise, short on delivery.

Which is what I have been saying all along.

There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
Oscar Levant
(1906 - 1972)