Man I am really in the pits, for all I know that after slaving 4 years at College I finally make it to the top of the accoulades in nearly every subject there is ranging from Multimedia Applications to Assembly Language Programming. Once the fancy convocations over and all the gowns are packed up I finally realise that I'm unemployeed and can't find a job!!
Hello to the real world, it seems that great marks and a fancy track record doesnt land you a job and neither does it help in standing out of the competition. I'm at a standstill when it comes to the large but highly ruthless job market. It seems there are vacancies for just about everything I CAN'T DO. Either they ask for a great deal of experience(Like hello people there are fresh graduates out there) or I suddenly realise that I dont have what it takes to work.
It seems all my studying and eductaion was a fraud and a ploy just to keep me under the false assumption that the industry needs me. I'm frustrated and tired and frankly need advice. The more I learn, the more technologies I try to study to keep up to job requirements the more I find out THERE'S MORE!!!!!
In a case liek this what should I do, I'm caught between doing what I like, doing what I know and having to learn stuff I don't like but can get me a job :S
Tyberius Prime
Paranoid (IV) Mad Scientist with Finglongers
From: Germany Insane since: Sep 2001
posted 02-17-2005 17:03
Hm... I must admit, I've rarely had trouble finding work - but then, I've usually started from a low position, asked for an internship, done my homework about the company I was interested in, talked directly to the people there (dropping of a resume is a sure way to land into some file... or the bin).
What have you tried so far?
Have they declined you, or did you not apply because it was something you 'couldn't do'?
quote:I'm caught between doing what I like, doing what I know and having to learn stuff I don't like but can get me a job
That's a little something we like to call "reality".
There are very few cases where coming straight out of school - no matter how impressive your grades - is going to get you a top position.
As TP said, you are going to have to start somewhere that may not be your preferred job. Then you'll have to work at getting into the positions you really want.
quote:it seems that great marks and a fancy track record doesnt land you a job
There is an awful lot more to being able to do a job well than having good grades. There is an awful lot more to convincing someone that you are right for a job than showing them a piece of paper.
It seems that, like a great many people, you've pushed through your education for the wrong reasons. Your education is for *your* benefit. It's not something you do to say you've done and then expect people to be knocking down your door because of it.
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 02-17-2005 19:46
Took me 3 months after graduation to find a full time position. I was lucky that I had some freelance work to help me through that period.
I posted my resume on monster, and dice and all the other job sites, and nothing really happenned there. I did end up having a lot of Indian sounding people calling me and offering me jobs 600 miles from where I listed that I would be willing to work.
The thing that finally got me a job was personal contacts. If you know someone in an industry you might want to working have them submit your resume. There are many places where you can get hired, and nothing you do will be great, but it will give you a little money to get by until you can work your way into something better.
I am currently working my crap 9-5, and will be working up from there. Even though I have tons of schooling, and tons of experience doing my freelance stuff, when you go to get a job in a big company that stuff doesn't mean much, it is a very different world inside the corporate structure.
Having a good interview and practicing for that is important as well.
You seem to have got an indepth schooling in the more esoteric/technical parts of the trade but did they actually cover the messy/practical sides of things? I wouldn't give a damn about your grades (I can find dozens even hundreds of people with those grades) and there would be other things that are likely to swing things in your favour.
TP has mentioned the importance of networking and grapevining and this is vital - other things include:
A good portfolio of work - if you haven't got it then now is the time to get moving and not just project pieces but working real world examples. If you don't have them now is the time - do stuff for friends and family, see if there isn't somewhere that covers a hobby of yours that needs some help or contact a local charity - they will be crying out for a simple site or some flyers or posters or something.
A great CV - not just a good one. You need to get your foot in the door before you can dazzle them with your skills. Good advice is to keep the CV bare bones (and unchanging from job to job) and hit them with T Letter to detail how what you bring to the table fits the job requirements.
---------------
You might have all these bases covered of course but thats not what I'm hearing from your post
This is all great advice that you have been given here. It's a tough hard old world out there and you need to keep your spirits up as well.
I also hope that your spelling is better on any application you submit than it is in your post. These things do make a difference
eg;
accoulades should be accolades
unemployeed " " unemployed
doesnt " " doesn't
::tao:::: ::cell:: "Those who look for monsters should look to it that they do not become monsters.
For when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you"
Its not like I haven't got any practical knowledge or experience. I have experience but its pretty varied and not highly specialised. My portfolio includes not only my best projects from college but also some freelance work. However when it comes to my freelance experience, most of the proejcts I've done (even the most complex ones) are those that could be easily completed by following a simple tutorial, in short the standard of my freelance work could be considered somewhat mediocre by industry standards.
quote:Have they declined you, or did you not apply because it was something you 'couldn't do'?
Now that you mentioned it my careers being hacked at by a double edged sword. Currently when I look at job requirements I understand that theres a lot to learn, and jobs where the requirements even remotely match my own skills, I feel a sense of 'fear' that holds me back - a fear of not being able to perform upto any organisations expected standards and sometimes I don't apply, and in the cases I have overcome this hesitation and applied with full throttle, I haven't recieved any response.
So infact I'm like being held back by a feeling that I'm not qualified enough. The toll is so bad that nowadays when I try to learn or brush up on my skills I loose interest kinda backing out.
I've thought of grabbing whatever job I can find, but frankly spending a reasonable time frame doing a job I don't even like - I mean I don't see how that experience will help land me a job I really like later on in my career. Like how is working as a junior technical assistant in a mobile telecom company gonna help me later on in my career to apply for a job in Multimedia Development.
I am confused though at the moment cos I'm caught between the things I can do and the things I wanna do but lack the necessary training or skills to do em. Like if I had to make a choice between Multimedia Development & Cartoon Animation both of which I have very little experience(like micro little) i.e. two fields which I really like and stuff like web development & database programming both of which I am pretty ok but simply loathe, what do I do.
I mean even if I were to chose the work I like, I'm confused between two totally different fields namely multimedia development & Cartoon Animation, like in the race to be at evens with both fields I end up learning very little of both.
I have a pretty good CV but honestly its a blind arrow, instead of deciding what to do I've kinda left it up to fate to put me into a suitable field and in the process - TADA remain unemployed.
What should I do, I mean should I sacrifice what I aspire to do, and take up a job I don't dig just to keep the bills running or should I do something else...
PS. thanx (I mean thanks) for pointing out my typos
Does the Uni not offer follow up services you can make use of to help hone you for getting the right jobs? Careers counselling, interview practice, CV rewriting, etc.? This kind of thing might just make the difference between getting a job you don't want and working up or getting soemthing closer to what you want to do.
quote:paritycheck said:
Its not like I haven't got any practical knowledge or
experience. I have experience but its pretty varied and not highly
specialised. My portfolio includes not only my best projects from
college but also some freelance work. However when it comes to my
freelance experience, most of the proejcts I've done (even the most
complex ones) are those that could be easily completed by following a
simple tutorial, in short the standard of my freelance work could be
considered somewhat mediocre by industry standards.
To be honest an awful lot of work in the industry is churning stuff out - "we need a layout by close of business tomorrow!!" You won't get much time to boot up DreamWeaver and throw something together.
I suppose part of the problem is your expectations - all the really cool and interesting stuff is usually done by people with much more experience while the basic work is handled by the newcomers. Unless you have something knockout in your portfolio you pretty much have to resign yourself to having to knuckle down and do quite a bit of basic work before you are given the fancier contracts.
You talk about direction but I think that might have to come with time. At the moment jobs are asking for server-side coding abilities, a talent with graphcis and multimedia skills so it doesn't sound like you'd have much difficulty getting an entry level posiiton. You might be suprised where the work takes you from there,
However, it is worth keeping an eye to the future and you say you want to go into multimedia/cartoons but the bulk of your skills are in the server-side field. On the face of it the answer is "tough" - there are hundrds of graduates trained in those specific areas being pumped out but on a broader and brighter note it needn't be an either/or situation as one of the big growth areas is doing things like connecting Flash to a database and related things so there is nothing to stop you looking into that area.
From: there...no..there..... Insane since: May 2001
posted 02-18-2005 18:13
quote:The thing that finally got me a job was personal contacts.
right there says it all. unfortunately it's sometimes not what you know but who you know. never burn any bridges either with people you work(ed) for. never know when you might have to call on them again
From: Rochester, New York, USA Insane since: May 2000
posted 02-18-2005 18:57
quote:Like how is working as a junior technical assistant in a mobile telecom company gonna help me later on in my career to apply for a job in Multimedia Development.
Because you are now on the inside of a mobile telecom company, you will see the internal job postings, you will be showing your supervisors you true skillset. From here you can apply to the Multimedia Development position, with the experience and reccomendations of your supervisors. Any big company will have many divisions through which you can move into. You should let it be know in the beginning that you are interested in the position as a stepping stone towards your other goals. It is never bad in an interview to tell the person interviewing you what you are interested in, for example: "I am interested in this possition because I can apply skill x1,x2,...,xn towards improving the cusomter experience, and I feel that this position would give me valuable experience towards reaching by goal of being [i]Position Y[/b]"
You also should know that you are going to be trained for any position that you go for. It is unreasonable to expect that you can walk into a company and just sit down and start working. You normally have about 2 weeks or so of training towards the job you will be doing. You have experience co-workers around to help you, and if you ask questions you will get answers. You shouldn't go in expecting that you know it all, you should go in with the attitude that you have a strong backgroup, you can quickly learn the job, and help your team grow.
And for the interview the specific skills you have only go so far. Things like working well with other, enjoying complex tasks, ability to break a large problem into small parts, those are all things that are important to mention. You don't need to be perfect, but you need to show that you are willing to work hard in order to become a good employee, who contributes to the companies sucess.
quote:Like how is working as a junior technical assistant in a mobile telecom company gonna help me later on in my career to apply for a job in Multimedia Development.
Maybe it won't.
With the outlook you seem to have at the moment, *nothing* is going to help "land" you a job.
Of course, half the problem is that you are expecting some external force to somehow "land" you a job, rather than getting off your ass and *getting* yourself a job.
I don't know many people who have the luxury of just waiting around for the job they *really* want to jump up and grab them. You've gotta start somewhere, and sooner or later you're gonna have to pay the bills. The longer you sit around expecting a job to pop-up for you, the worse it's going to get.
There's a lot more to be said for plain old hard work than there is for degrees or on-paper-qualifications.
to quote:
quote:? Nothing can stop the man with right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. ?
? Thomas Jefferson
Working as a tech assistant might not give you any credit for being able to handle a job in multimedia development. That much is true.
But it gives you credit for being "employable". If you handle that job well, and can can get references you are well on your way.
I have to admit (having a background as a hiring manager within IT) that I have not the best experience of newly-grads.
I might have had bad luck, but some has been acting as if I (or the world in general) owe them a position and that do not have to fight for it, or even put in an effort. Way too comfy.
Now if I interview someone that might not have been doing what I actually need for a position in their latest job (but show it somewhere in their resume), but have a resume telling me something about their work ethics and character, that goes a long way.
Usually I found it easier to get someone to brush up/expand on their skills than their ethics and character.
Just my 0.2c
A Personal reflection:
Myself, I started out as an intern being trained to be a salesperson (which I did not want). They found out that I knew my way around PS and PM and had a knack for understanding marketing so I got a position in marketing instead. From there things started to snowball, and I actually just left a position as Europeean Ops Manager for a webpublishing platform this wednesday out of my own choice since I wanted to move on. That was not exactly a dream job for me (way too much tech stuff) but it opened a few doors and gave me invaluable contacts. So you still can get caught in jobs you do not want even after many years in the industry. It's more of a matter of how you handle it, what you can take with you from it and what your goals are.
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 02-19-2005 09:51
The main two problems I see here are :
Not concentrating on your good points - with your defeatest atitude, you have already convinced yourself that you won't get a job. Instead of concentrating on what you think you can't do, concentrate on what you can. A shift in attitude not only makes a world of difference personally, but others recognize the change in body language as well. This includes interviewers.
False expectations. I don't know where you got the idea that a big, fat, high-paying job that exactly matches your skills is going to come and swoop you off of your feet, now that you have finished your degree.
Life doesn't work like that for 99.999% of the populance of the world. To obtain such, one either needs an incredible amount of luck, and incredible amount of talent (recognized) or know someone with an incredible amount of power and money (influence).
Since you probably don't fall into the above catagories, you are just like everyone else - you need to invest a lot of honest hard work, sharpen up your skills on convincing others what you can do and providing evidence of what you can do, and set your goals realistically accordingly.
A job is better than no job. Having a job gives you time to look and find a better job, either in the company where you have the job, or in another. In the meantime, you can cover the bills with the current job, and learn new skills, and sharpen old ones (and keep important skills current - this is VERY important!).
I can't stress enough the comments that DL has given you - you may not like hearing what he is saying, but it is spot on. Get up off your behind, and get your hands dirty. If you want it, you have to go out and get it. Whining about it will not change anything.
hmmm.. I guess you guys are right. I have been under the crazy assumption that waiting for a perfect job would be the answer - turns out its too detrimental to my career as it is. The thought of juggling between work hours at a job I hardly like as well as playing out and learning the stuff I aspire to do, was pretty scary at times and also I thought practically impossible:S. But frankly waiting doesn't seem like the appropriate solution.
I've got a great cv though but frankly it largely consists of practical expertise I have in areas I'm not very fond of(like sever sided coding, database programming oop - YIKES ). My Multimedia work though varied is pretty bland, probably due to the lack of guided training I've had in the field(and partially due to a crappy teacher who really turned our multimedia module into a boring english class), what should I like do to my cv to like give the impression that I'm targeting myself for a job in Multimedia Development or the like.
Any good points for improving my cv (and also to stay focused) would be greatly accepted. And thanx for putting the fire back in me guys
what should I like do to my cv to like give the
impression that I'm targeting myself for a job in Multimedia
Development or the like.
Simple answers include:
1. Do more interesting multimedia work. It would be handy if this was practical (see my above mentions of doing free work on your hobbies or for charities) - try hooking it up to the server-side skills you have - it will create a more seamless transition as you might be able to get a job doing mainly server-side work connected to multimedia and learn the ropes and move more into the multimedia aspects (always handy to have a career trajectory worked out on how to make one job a stepping stone to your ideal job). If you can't do anything practical then create some example pieces.
2. Take some courses - learning never ends and I think potential employers would want to see you improving your skills all the time. I'm unsure what courses there are available to you - there are some good free one's here in the UK.
quote:what should I like do to my cv to like give the impression that I'm targeting myself for a job in Multimedia Development or the like.
Number one is make damn sure your grammar and communication skills come across as better than they have in this thread!
Number two, as Emperor said, is to simply do more MM work, with a focus on making an impression.
Combining skillsets is *always* a good thing. Being able to apply what you know in one area to something altogether different is what learning is all about, and will show an employer that you didn't just knock off the apporopriate courses with no intention of putting your education to work.
This begs the question, however - if 'multimedia' type work is what you want to do, why is it not more strongly represented in your schooling and portfolio?
Like how is working as a junior technical assistant in a mobile telecom company gonna help me later on in my career to apply for a job in Multimedia Development.
because it pays the bills while you work at night and on the weekends improving your stuff so you CAN get the job you want
posted 02-17-2005 13:29
) or I suddenly realise that I dont have what it takes to work. 
::cell::
). My Multimedia work though varied is pretty bland, probably due to the lack of guided training I've had in the field(and partially due to a crappy teacher who really turned our multimedia module into a boring english class), what should I like do to my cv to like give the impression that I'm targeting myself for a job in Multimedia Development or the like.
-->
