Topic awaiting preservation: On Deities

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Atheism is the condition of being without theistic beliefs and alternatively the disbelief in or denial of deities.

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I never cared for labels, I still don't ? other then on a beer bottle. But having said that, if the label fits?I guess that's what I am.

I remember as a child (6-7 years old?), one of the few childhood memories that I have retained clearly and vividly, well most of it? I remember my brother and a friend engaged in what might be called "God-bashing". Not sure exactly what they said but it was something along the lines of F*** God or God is an Ahole?etc. They were very explicit in their descriptions of the Deity and it was not very flattering.

It was an infantile show of defiance ? what you would expect coming from a pair of 12 year olds ? other than the content itself.

I was dumbstruck, flabbergasted, shocked, but most of all terrified. I cowered in expectance of that heavenly lightning bolt that would strike both my brother and his friend dead?toast them in their tracks.

But the bolt never came?the angel of death never revealed himself/herself.

That was the day I became an atheist.

As a atheist I have seldom frowned on those who believe. In many ways I have envied those who believe or who benefit from their innate spiritualism?they can find comfort in difficult times whereas an atheist must at best rely on optimism.

Blaise Pascal: It is the heart which perceives God and not the reason. That is what faith is: God perceived by the heart, not by the reason."

My mother had quoted that to me, in the original French, many years ago. It stayed with me. My interpretation of this quote has led me to believe that, up until now (and I truly expect forever) I will never believe?.because it is not in my heart, it never will be.

On the reason side, I spent years formally and informally studying evolutionary biology and paleontology ? what I learned, at least about evolution versus creation, is irrefutable for me?.it can't be challenged because I will not bother to respond to this kind of debate, at least not seriously..i do love to bullshit about it though.

On a final note, last year one of my best friends got very very sick, much too young to die?.as they say "a Father (his Mother was dead) should never had to bury their children". They prayed for him, oh how they prayed the poor bastard would not die?but he did. He died. Robert is no longer.

I didn't pray for him. He was in my thoughts but I could not join in the prayer?

If God made us perfect well he screwed up pretty badly on Robert's immune system.

If there is a God, I have to conclude (yes, through my reason) that he could not care less about us?..so I have never understood how people can still want or need him in their lives.

I'm not saying he owes us anything..i'm just saying he couldn't give a shit about us..couldn't give a shit about suffering, about illness, about murder, about famine, about poverty, about pedophilia.

Maybe God is Adam Smith?the economist..with a Laissez-Faire attitude!

?.if this is our God I don't want any part of him.

For your reading pleasure -

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/24877

The topic has been discussed at great length, and sometimes with some great results.

There are plenty of atheists around these parts, with pretty varied views on the subject.

I am reconsidering.

There are so many organized "Aetheist" groups these day a free-lancer gets a bad rep becaus all the stupid things they day and so.

So henceforth I shall be a 'realist'.

I invite you to join me Zaddy.

I gained my disbelief at an early age as well, about 9 I believe.

My folks went to church a few times a month and made me go as well, though church was left at the church. I recall sitting in Sunday School one day and the 'teacher' was reading some drivil from the bible which made no sense to my young mind.

I queried the 'teacher' on the item and was essentially told to accept it and not question it.

Well, I read an entire encyclopedia from AArdvark to Zulu before I was 10.

I questioned!

We stopped going to church.

Havn't seen or heard or read anything since which would give me even a moments' question on my decision, lo those many years ago.

Religion simply counters all intellect.

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius, Roman Poet (94 - 55 BCE)

I am a Naturalist. I believe that everything is a part of Nature, and is the result and is governed by Natural laws. I believe in a "Super-Nature", which encompasses everything we know, and everything that we do not. It is like a shell within a shell (the existence that we know is the inner shell).

This does not preclude a being of such power that it could be considered a god. It does, however, say that this being must follow natural laws. This does not mean that we understand all the Natural laws - we only understand that which we can presently see and test with the tools and instruments that we have. I think as Mankind moves out into Space, that we will be able to greatly expand on the knowledge of the Natural and better our tools, instruments and understanding of it.

I have to say that to a theist I am pretty much an atheist, but to an atheist I am much more an agnostic. I can not say with certaintly that there is no god or higher power, as a logical individual I have to leave that posibility open, there is no evidence for or against.

However, I do have a strong moral convictions, that although they might be very different from those with religious backgrounds, can sometimes appear just as random. Not everything about me is logical, sometimes it just has to boil down to something you just feel right about.

As for my history of not accepting a god. It has to come from my father, who was religious until his Grandmother died and they told him it was gods will. I am sure his feelings rubbed off on me, and made me question the religious doctrine that was put in front of me. I remember being facinated by the stories in the bible when I was younger, thinking things like, I want to see a gaint or wow I bet I will someday meet a bush on fire that talks. But as you grow up and actually pay attention to it, you can see it in a very different contridicting light. So ultimately it just became a book of stories with some good morals and some bad morals.

And now I sit here not really caring one way or the other. I live my life perfectly happy with the people around me and the activities I take part in.

Dan @ Code Town

Again, I don't like labels....i'm just a "human bean". {no typo}

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ZaddyDog said:

couldn't give a shit about suffering, about illness, about murder, about famine,
about poverty, about pedophilia.

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He does though Zaddy. Maybe not the god you are thinking of, but my God does...

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Ehtheist said:

Well, I read an entire encyclopedia from AArdvark to Zulu before I was 10.

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Wow! That is some fast reading speed! Do you still remember most of it?

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Ehtheist said:

I questioned!

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But why have you stopped questioning, Ehtheist?

WS, so this view holds a door open for a god? Does it allow the god to have created things, like in a "hands off influence" way, tweaking and what not, or does this god have to have been created too?

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WarMage said:

Not everything about me is logical

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Logical people are so dull...

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WarMage said:

I live my life perfectly happy with the people around me and the activities I
take part in.

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As long as you are happy, that is what matters...but you want to be careful: happiness can come from the revenge of a prank or the numbness of a drink, but the reprecusions are a long time healing...

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

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Gideon said:

Maybe not the god you are thinking of, but my God does...

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and you should know, given it's your bible


He hears the silence howling --
catches angels as they fall.
And the all-time winner
has got him by the balls.
He picks up Gideons Bible --
open at page one --


Now rocky raccoon he fell back in his room
Only to find gideon?s bible
Gideon checked out and he left it no doubt
To help with good rocky?s revival

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WS, so this view holds a door open for a god? Does it allow the god to have created things, like in a "hands off influence" way, tweaking and what not, or does this god have to have been created too?

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I think I explained this very well - this being must follow Natural Laws (being that it would be a part of the Super Nature). If the Natural Laws allow such "tampering", then yes, it could do so. If the Natural Laws allow for this being to have created it, then yes, this being could have created it.

All of this, however, would mean that we, Humankind, could learn to be able to do this, as well. We would just have to discover/learn how to manipulate these Rules and Laws.

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WebShaman said:

discover/learn how to manipulate these Rules and Laws

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excellent point, that's exactly how i do it when Agent Smith is firing bullets at me.

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WebShaman said:

this being

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Maybe not a god, persay, but a life form originating from another planet? Is that the kind of being you are suggesting, some sort of super-thing. Like a jedi?

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WebShaman said:

We would just have to discover/learn how to manipulate these Rules and
Laws.

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Didn't they already do that In Hitchhiker's guide?

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ZaddyDog said:

and you should know, given it's your bible

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My Bible is precious to me, my belief that it is God's Word and all. But more precious than my Bible is Jesus. Because Jesus is precious.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

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Is that the kind of being you are suggesting, some sort of super-thing. Like a jedi?

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I'm not suggesting anything about any being, other than all beings must follow the Natural Laws.

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Didn't they already do that In Hitchhiker's guide?

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That is a fantasy book. In a fantasy book, anything is possible.

*shrugs*

Nice story.

(Edited by WebShaman on 04-19-2005 07:43)

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Gideon said:
Because Jesus is precious.

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Precious was also a dog.
dog is GOD spell backwards too.
Can anyone name the flick?

Catherine: Get me a telephone and lower it down here now.
Gumb: Poodle-y poo. Precious. Darling, are you all right?
Catherine: She's in a lot of pain, mister, she needs a vet. She broke her leg on the way down. I know it.
Gumb: Hey, don't you hurt my dog?
Catherine: Don't you make me hurt your dog!
Gumb: You don't know what pain is.

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WebShaman said:

Nice story.

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Yeah. Soon to be movie now, too.

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ZaddyDog said:

dog is GOD spell backwards too.

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That's right, dog is god spelled backwards. Good job, Zaddy.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

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Gideon said:

Good job, Zaddy.

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and ZaddyDog spelled backwards is Godyddaz!

ZD - "Silence of the Lambs"

Gid - So...it is going to be coming out as a movie.

Your point?

Yah, they have made a few movies about gid's favourite book of myths and fantasy (yawn), so what?

"All religions are equally sublime to the ignorant, useful to the politician, and ridiculous to the philosopher." -- Lucretius, Roman Poet (94 - 55 BCE)

srry to hear about your friend Zaddy. Nothing real good to say there trust em I know. Think about this.
IMagine a Ying Yang. THe chinese believed that the world must have balance and to balance there must be good and evil. Note that the Ying Yang is half and half with white and black. If this was the end of the story/moral there would be no black dot in the white half and noo white dot in the black. It is those dots that represent what was one of the beliefs of alchemists. One must indure one evil to gain one good. Thought that might help somehow. In the end you must believe what you want to believe. If you don't believe in a deity of any sort than more power to you. If you believe in a deity that most dont more power to you. In reality we all must get through life however we can.

History is nothing but a fable that has been agreed upon.
-Napolean Bonaparte

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WebShaman said:

Gid - So...it is going to be coming out as a movie.Your point?

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Did you know that it has already came out as a video before? That kinda disappointed me. Ruined the whole awe of the thing. Oh, well, gonna see it anyway
My point...Don't think I had one, sorry. Well, let's see if I can come up with one.
Hmm...How about that we all need some time away in a fantasy world like that insane one to keep our sanity. Sound good?

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Ehtheist said:

Yah, they have made a few movies about gid's favourite book of myths and fantasy
(yawn), so what?

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The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is one of my favorite books of myths and fantasy. My absolute favorite would have to be the Dhampir series right now. It has vampires and elves, what more could you want?
BTW, Ehtheist, found anything out about Lucretius yet?

Sangreal, but if you believe in a deity, and that deity fails, then what? I think that is what I got from most of these stories. Is that right? That most of you stopped believing that there was a God because He didn't do something you thought He would?

WS, about this nature idea, is it rooted in the Native American beliefs, because it sounds familiar? Not too many places for spirits to go, though.

"You must unlearn what you have learned."
~Yoda

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WS, about this nature idea, is it rooted in the Native American beliefs, because it sounds familiar? Not too many places for spirits to go, though.

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Uhhh...no, it is rooted in reality. Maybe that is why it sounds familiar...

Not too many places for spirits to go? However do you come to that conclusion?

*shrugs*