Topic: Link to page within frameset

I have a frameset, that works with three frames, a menu, a sub-menu, and a body. What i want to know is, how can one make an external link not to the main frameset, not to one html file, but to the frameset with a specific page appearing on one of the frames.
What is also bothering me is that people bookmarking the page will always bookmark the frameset, and not a specific configuration of it, correct?


thanx in advanced

~this is not a signature~

You're going to have to do some cookie magic for this. Either that or have a link where you can parse the query string.

Yes they bookmark the frameset not the configuration.

( hasn't anyone told you frames are evil ;P ... this is one reason why.)



.:[ Never resist a perfect moment ]:.

Right, that is bad. I thought frames would be a good solution. Like i said, what was asked was a menu that would open another one. This last one would control the actual navigation. No fancy javascript, or other scripts allowed. Css was greenlighted. Still, frames seemed the better solution.
Except now, for the whole linking and bookmarking thing.

I guess i can bypass this problem if i use i-frames smartly, if no other solution comes up.

~this is not a signature~

Don't use frames.

^ that's all their is to it really. Frames suck, and this is one very good illustration of why.

Does that embargo include iframes?

~this is not a signature~

All iframes are is frames, but inline, they still suck... Even though I was forced (and I don't like it one bit) to use it on my site for my shoutbox, but I have been working my arse off to figure out an alternative...

If I were you, I would look into the CSS alternative. I will do some looking tommorow for something that might work.

:: WWW || Deviations || ThoughtPrism ::

if you found an alternative, that would be nice

What exactly is it that you are using frames for?

I personally don't see much of any reason for ever using them (regular or iframe). Reloading a cached page usually isn't much of an issue...

it's about navigation. it allows you not to have to update every single page everytime you make a change to the website's tree structure.


what i am working on can see here:
www.animanet.net/inu/demat/main.htm
still inside its egg, tho.


frames work really well. no doubt about it. if it wasnt for that linking thing

(Edited by Arthemis on 05-31-2005 19:10)

Your server supports server side includes (probably at least a couple different kinds [Apache, PHP]).

SSI + the CSS overflow property = virtually no need for frames.

Yep, that's what server side includes are all about - make one file, include it in all of your pages via any number of server side languages.

More info:

http://www.gurusnetwork.com/tutorial/server_side_includes/

http://www.gurusnetwork.com/tutorial/php_templates_2/

quote:

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Right, that is bad. I thought frames would be a good solution. Like i said, what was asked was a menu that would open another one. This last one would control the actual navigation. No fancy javascript, or other scripts allowed. Css was greenlighted. Still, frames seemed the better solution.
Except now, for the whole linking and bookmarking thing.

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Still, thank you.

(Edited by Arthemis on 05-31-2005 20:08)

Uh, why can't you use SSI?

because the boss says so

Does the boss know what SSI is?
Can he spell SSI?

Frames are inferior to SSI in almost any case - period.
Big companies do not use frames on their main sites - y'know why? Usually because they pay people that know what they're doing and those people know that using SSI is better than using frames.

That's the good occasion to explain the pros and cons of frames, SSI ( or any server side language ) to your boss.
The time ( and money ) you wasted on this simple problem alone should be enough to convince him of the hassle of the framesets.

However, if you can't take the server side way, you'll have to do it à la 1998 style, that is to include a nifty piece of javascript in *every* html page of your site that will test if the top.location equals the self.location and then will load a page that will rebuild the frameset with some document.write( ) and load the right content page in the content frames thanks to a parameter sent in GET. It's ugly as hell and the script needs to included on *every* single content page, but it works.

reisio:



(Edited by poi on 06-01-2005 00:46)

If you don't mind, arthemis, some questions -

1) what is the arrangement here? Are you designing for a client? Or doing this at your job in addition to what you might normally do there? Or....?

2) whos is the boss, and what reason (if any) does said boss give for such decisions? And is this boss actually qualified to make such decisions?

No fancy javascipt I can understand (sort of).

However, server side scripting is something that should be a part of every site (ok, almost every site) IMO. To say no to it when it is available is really just plain silly.

actually, this boss, probably knows more than most "people that know what they're doing". its not really about using ssi or not, but more about currently existing protocols on the use of the machine. i'll just stand still and wait for some feedback. in the meanwhile i'll play with some <iframes> and <object data> to see if it helps.

poi, thanks. i knew such thing existed, but never had to investigate. i'll keep it in mind.

dl: this is a page for the university campus. For one of its departments. Under the request of a designated professor. The design is set. The problem resides in the special request of having a menu that changed another menu that controled the page. And they had to be separated and positioned, exactly like presented on the current aspect. But without clientside scripting.
The way i got it to work is the way that was requested. Everything is in its proper position. The top menu controls the left menu who controls the main page. The problem is that it's using frames.
What i need now is to have it working exactly like it does now, but without using the frameset.
I saw some use of css for creating navigational menus, but nothing similar. And so, i think the to ssi or not to ssi aspect is secondary right now.

(Edited by Arthemis on 06-01-2005 02:09)

DL-44: as reisio ironically said, I doubt anyone qualified to take a technical decision would decide to go for a frameset.

quote:

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server side scripting is something that should be a part of every site (ok, almost every site) IMO

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I've never seen a server which do no offer server side scripting.

Adding the menu and submenu can be done via Apache in at least 2 ways :
1. by using the request URI as a parameter of a sever side script that will load the navigations and append the requested page.
2. if the server can run PHP, you can do something like:

<Files "*.html">
    ForceType application/x-httpd-php
    php_value auto_prepend_file ../navigation.php
</Files>

quote:

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And so, i think the to ssi or not to ssi aspect is secondary right now.

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So the central issue is getting this layout to work without frames?
It must be remembered that iframes are still frames...so ditching frames and using an iframe doesn't accomplish anything.

Now, let's make sure I am understanding the predicament...

1) you need a top menu
2) when an item on that menu is clicked, will load a page which will also have a sub-menu
3) It needs to not use frames.
4) It needs to not use server side scripting or javascript.
5) it needs to be updated easily? Or this is a wish and not a requirement?

Ok, there are pretty much 3 ways of acheiving a setup like this

1) Each page has whichever menu or set of menus that is needed hardcoded into it.

- This is bad because changing a menu means changing potentially hundreds of files.

- This is good if a nuclear attack wipes out all web servers with PHP, SSI, or any other server side language functionality.

2) You use frames.

- This is bad becuase it causes many issues with indexing, bookmarking, and the like. It also depends on the integrity of the frameset, which can be comprimised by the user. And, well, it's just bad.
- The good side is that it allows you to update one file for each menu.

3) You use javascript to write the navigation menus

- This is bad because of user agent dependencies, and it is a bit akward
- This is good because it allows easy updating (change one file, all files include the updated file)

4) You use a server side include system to include the appropriate files wherever they are needed.

- This is good because it is endlessly flexible, has no user agent dependencies, and allows you great control and ease of updating. The only limit to what can be done with this type of setup is your knowledge of the language (and with SSI or PHP, you can pick up enough awful quick to get you going easily).

- This is only bad if you are told you can't do it.

FWIW...



(Edited by DL-44 on 06-01-2005 02:44)

quote:

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DL-44 said:

This is good if a nuclear attack wipes out all web servers with PHP, SSI, or any other server side language functionality.

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Mmmm, some of the messiest code I've generated in a long time :
http://reisio.com/temp/demat/
http://reisio.com/temp/demat/demat.zip

(only tested in Mozilla Firefox & Internet Explorer 6)

(Edited by reisio on 06-01-2005 07:11)

Wow, that is some good stuff =) I wish I could use write pages like that...

:: WWW || Deviations || ThoughtPrism ::

thank you reisio. i'll read it carefully =)

just have everything but conteúdo, and maybe <title>, etc. SSI'd

continued here http://www.ozoneasylum.com/26738