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Zynx
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: In the Midsts
Insane since: Aug 2005

posted posted 09-09-2005 03:35

" Zahi Hawass wants the Rosetta Stone back?among other things
By Henry Huttinger

Egypt is once again calling for the return of several celebrated antiquities currently on display in museums across Europe and America, including the Rosetta stone, the famous granite slab that was crucial in deciphering hieroglyphics.

The campaign to recuperate priceless artifacts taken by colonial powers is not new. But in recent weeks Zahi Hawass, Secretary General of the Supreme Council of Antiquities and the public face of archaeology in Egypt, has grown more strident in his demands in a campaign that coincides with a world tour of Egyptology?s favorite son, King Tutankhamun. Hawass has even threatened to shut down British and Belgian archaeological digs in Egypt if the artifacts are not returned.

?The Rosetta stone is one of the most important pieces in the British Museum, but it is more important for Egypt,? Hawass said. ?It is an essential piece of our Egyptian national and historical identity and was disgracefully smuggled out of the country.?

The Rosetta stone?a dark slab on which a Ptolemaic decree is written in Greek, hieroglyphics and Demotic script?was discovered in 1799 by the French military. When the French surrendered to British forces in 1801, they tried to smuggle the 1,609-pound stone out of the country. It was intercepted by British troops and promptly delivered to the British Museum, where it has remained on display ever since.

Past efforts to retrieve Egyptian antiquities on display abroad have proven largely ineffective. Speaking at the 250th anniversary of the British Museum in London in 2003, Hawass demanded the return of the Rosetta stone. His call fell on unsympathetic ears, and he expressed his indignation to reporters following the event.

?If the British want to be remembered, if they want to restore their reputation, they should volunteer to return the Rosetta Stone because it is the icon of our Egyptian identity,? he said at the time.

Hawass has appealed to UNESCO to mediate the dispute and has encouraged 21 other countries also seeking the return of plundered artifacts to do the same.

?Our previous attempts at returning the Rosetta stone were ineffectual, but we hope that by organizing an international lobby, we can pressure with greater force the countries and museums in possession of such artifacts,? Hawass said.

In London, British Museum Communications Manager Hanna Bolton told Cairo, ?The British Museum has not received an official request for the return of the Rosetta Stone.? Bolton refused to elaborate further, saying she was ?confused? by Hawass? statement.

Even with the backing of UNESCO and the collective voices of two dozen states, Egypt?s ability to convince Western museums to return priceless artifacts taken long before the concept of international property rights is uncertain.

There have, however, been some successes. On 19 July, the Australian government handed over several 2,500-year-old funerary statuettes, a bronze axe head and amulets that were confiscated in Melbourne. The artifacts had been smuggled out of Egypt under false papers as reproductions and were subsequently sold.

The Greek government and numerous international action groups have been campaigning for decades for the return of the Elgin marbles from the British Museum. The collection of marble sculptures was removed from the Parthenon in Athens in 1801 and taken to the British Museum, where it has been housed ever since. The museum has been notoriously unresponsive to Greece?s and other countries? appeals, perhaps because artifacts such as the Rosetta stone and the Elgin marbles are a major draw for the British Museum?s five million annual visitors.

The principal obstacle facing countries like Egypt and Greece is the lack of any international legal framework that would allow countries to file suit against museums in possession of such artifacts.

UNESCO mainly serves as a negotiating forum. It lacks the teeth necessary to force governments to return plundered antiquities. ?It is not an international court of justice or arbitration court,? said Mounir Bouchenaki, assistant director general of UNESCO?s Culture Sector.

Hawass, ever the flamboyant face of Egyptian archeology, is undeterred. He told Cairo, ?If UNESCO fails, I will do it without them!?

Copyright2005 Cairo Magazine. "

" You are no match for Lord Gorlok! "

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-09-2005 08:12

And?

Zynx
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: In the Midsts
Insane since: Aug 2005

posted posted 09-09-2005 17:11

And I guess you don't have an opinion.

Last I checked, Egyptian priests created the stone FOR Ptolemy.

So why hasn't anyone asked what the Greeks thinks?

" You are no match for Lord Gorlok! "

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-09-2005 17:23

You never asked for an opinion.

And an opinion about what?

Diogenes
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: Right behind you.
Insane since: May 2005

posted posted 09-09-2005 18:21

This going back into history and trying to right ancient wrongs in light of modern mores is assenine.

Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right.
Isaac Asimov
US science fiction novelist & scholar (1920 - 1992)

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-09-2005 20:12

There is this -

quote:
?The Rosetta stone is one of the most important pieces in the British Museum, but it is more important for Egypt,? Hawass said. ?It is an essential piece of our Egyptian national and historical identity and was disgracefully smuggled out of the country.?



And this -

quote:
The principal obstacle facing countries like Egypt and Greece is the lack of any international legal framework that would allow countries to file suit against museums in possession of such artifacts.

UNESCO mainly serves as a negotiating forum. It lacks the teeth necessary to force governments to return plundered antiquities. ?It is not an international court of justice or arbitration court,? said Mounir Bouchenaki, assistant director general of UNESCO?s Culture Sector.



On which point of view did you want an opinion?
How do you see it?

(Edited by WebShaman on 09-10-2005 00:41)

Zynx
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: In the Midsts
Insane since: Aug 2005

posted posted 09-10-2005 00:34

A post where anybody can give their opinion. I'm not out to win any contest here WS. I thought it was an interesting idea that Egypt says it's there's, and the UK says it's there's. I wasn't being forceful to anyone.

I don't see how Egypt can lay claim to this item. Yes this artifact was created in Egypt, by Egyptian priests, but it was also done so while under the rule of the greeks. And it was stolen by the English, while Egypt was under French rule. Do we now ask that all things be returned to their rightful creators?

So here are a few things, not in the hands of their creators
The Hope Diamond.
The Crown Jewels.
The car JFK was killed in.
The chair where Abraham Lincoln was killed in.

" You are no match for Lord Gorlok! "

WebShaman
Maniac (V) Mad Scientist

From: Happy Hunting Grounds...
Insane since: Mar 2001

posted posted 09-10-2005 00:46
quote:
I don't see how Egypt can lay claim to this item. Yes this artifact was created in Egypt, by Egyptian priests, but it was also done so while under the rule of the greeks. And it was stolen by the English, while Egypt was under French rule. Do we now ask that all things be returned to their rightful creators?



Ok, now that is a good start!

quote:
I'm not out to win any contest here WS.



I didn't have the impression that you were.

All I was "nudging" you towards was getting your thread off to a start. You see, when all you do is post a snippet of an article, etc that really doesn't help to continue the thread much IMHO.

Zynx
Bipolar (III) Inmate

From: In the Midsts
Insane since: Aug 2005

posted posted 09-10-2005 01:14

I guess I was blinded by my defense on you. Thanks for your patience, and help

I believe the hope diamond is in US's hands. The Smithsonian institute? Yet it was originally created in India.
I believe the Crown Jewels are in the UK. Tower of London? Also originally from India I believe.
JFK Car, Dearborn Michigan USA, created in Detroit, Michigan, USA. Purchased by the US governemtn.
Lincoln chair, Dearborn, Michigan, USA. Originally a chair in FORD Theater, District of Columbia. Created by someone for Henry (Harry) Ford, treasurer of the theatre.

How draws the line. Is it about it's creation, or ownership, and where it was created, or in the case of Lincoln, who paid the highest price.

In this case, this seems to be more about money, as at least the UK, has been a great protector of this ancient object, which is a major about the history of man on this planet. We all own it.

" You are no match for Lord Gorlok! "

(Edited by Zynx on 09-10-2005 01:16)

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