Topic awaiting preservation: Venezuela gives Exxon ultimatum

Maybe its just because I feel as if we've been hosed, especially over the past few years, but when I read this I almost got a warm fuzzy feeling. =)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4544390.stm

Hugo Chavez, I suspect, is insane, like Dr Evil insane. I hope I'm wrong, Venezuelans deserve better.

Wakkos? Is this guy nuts or not?

Seems logical enough to me. Sure, the USA might invade them for "fighting the war against terrorism", but other than that I don't see the problem.

I on the other hand feel that he is doing some really good things for Venezuela. I am not all that keen about him extending his own terms in office, but if he is getting the job done for them I do not see why this is a problem either. I have not heard much about the people being up in arms. I have read about other countries being upset, and I have read that political oponents are upset. But I have not heard him doing things that are bad for his people.

I would love to be corrected if I am wrong.

Dan @ Code Town

My take on the guy is utter confusion but I obviously lean towards/fear that, he's nuts, or more specifically power mad. His record for the moment is fine, that is providing for the poor of his country, but the tone of his rhetoric, his associations, and lessons from history all lead me to The Fear.

I don't think that this is a man that will be a trustwrthy leader that will deal in any fair way once he possesses the power he's moving for.

The people are not up in arms I believe because he is providing for them, I just don't believe that it's his long term plan to work his ass off for his people.

I know you Dan are a bit of a socialist/communist flavored guy and I admire the optimism of your position (and forgive me if I've got it wrong) but I just don't have the faith in people that you do, I believe that absolute power corrupts absolutely and this is where I "see" Chavez heading. It's a hella long way to Miami from Venezuela on a homemade raft.

And reiso has a very valid point, he risks much with his political strategy, if you can call it political.

I'd like to know what more Venezuelan people think but alas, our resident Venezuelan is no longer very resident I'd love to be wrong and see this guy turn out to be a benevolent wise leader but if you hear him speak it's scary as hell. Charismatic Hitler-like ranting (I don't say that to provoke any feeling or try to affix a label, it's just what he reminds me of).

You don't have me all that wrong. I am not so much a strict socialist/communist, but am very much against large corporations, large governments, and especially against lobbying groups. I also do not have much trust in people doing good things, but I do think people in these positions are going to act like intelligent people.

Power is a pretty good motivator, but I find it hard to believe that a person is going to be motivated towards both power and (for lack of a better word) evil. People do have goals, and many of those goals can be described as pretty damn scary. But I don't see anything here that is scary.

I believe that by taking a stake in these companies is correct. They are using a finite resource from his country for international use. Their country should get as much out of these large companies as they can. Venezuela is well within their rights to exclude any of these companies from their country if they don't play ball.

His strategy is pretty interesting, and he is not unique. America is not as strong as it once was, and we can not control everything like we have in the past. Our trade deficite and our over-sea war have put us in a position of both economic and military weakness. Our words are just not enough to cause other countries to bow down and do our will. They are acting more and more on their own and for their own benefit. Good for them. It can be pretty scary when you have some countries that you have not heard much about start dictating to us how we will do things. He is coming on very strong because he wants to push his advantage as far as he can before we clamp down. Although we are now weak it doesn't mean that we don't have some pretty damn big claws, but with such big claws it takes us a lot longer to actually swing.

Venezuela is not a military threat, they are an economic threat. They have the oil and with the way we are living now, we need the oil. That gives them a lot of economic power, and that can be pretty unsettling.

Dan @ Code Town

I too don't see a 'whole' lot wrong with what he's doing. I see it a bit like the line from the movie 'Network'... "We're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore."

It reminds me a bit (maybe a lot) of what happpened in Cuba where in the 1930's the mafia paid US backed Cuban dictator Batista a ton of money to let the mafia run gambling casinos. Virtually none of the money made it to 'the people' ... one 'revolution' later Castro takes over in 1959 and while quite clearly has become all too power-hungry...he did, initially, a lot of good things for the people...and things would of course be a lot better 'now'.... if the US would lift those bullshit sanctions.

I'd almost be willing to bet =) that had the money been spread around the mafia would still be there and I really don't see much of a difference between the business practices of the mob or mobil. Both want as much as they can possibly get.
What was it your mom used to say... Don't be greedy! (?)

Taking a step off topic here -

quote:

---

Warmage Said:

Power is a pretty good motivator, but I find it hard to believe that a person is going to be motivated towards both power and (for lack of a better word) evil.

---

Unless I dratically misunderstand what you are saying, this is a very bizarre statement that ignores all of human history and all of human nature.

Now, back on the actual topic - JK, I share your overall feeling on Chavez. However, as far as his actions in regard to the oil supplies of his nation.....all that can be said is good for him, and good for them.

Would we allow foreign companies to control our natural oil supplies? It's insane to expect other nations to do so.

Yes, I was hardly on topic, just took the opportunity to toss out my oh-so-coveted opinion on Chavez (did I mention he may be a complete nutter?)

I'm actually quite keen on his policies here and I'm glad for him and Venezuelans that they've found the fortitude and opportunity to do so.