" everybody is protected by the Constitution, whether you?re an immigrant or not. "
Besides that not being true, this country spends billions of dollars ever year on these people.
Something should be done, although I doubt that militarizing the border is the answer.
I was expecting you'd be talking about the UK, where the immigration problem is very much in the highlights this week. I am myself a (legal) "immigrant" in the UK (I have actually been here for two years), and believe me, I do pay for this illegal immigration stuff with mostly my time, patience and money.
I will be digressing a bit here, but to get a life in our "modern world" you do need a good credit history, and there is no other way to build up one's credit history than over time and regular payments. No need to say that I left Switzerland at exactly the wrong time, which is when I hadn't had a full time job or rented a place yet.
Getting settled in a foreign country is tricky and takes an awful lot of time, especially when people don't believe you when you say that coming from Switzerland you are entitled to live and work in the UK without a visa. Plus processes to open a bank account or do any similar thing now takes many more steps and time because the immigration issue got out of control.
Now to gather my thoughts and expose my point... To be honest, I do think that the issues starts with situations like here in the UK, where the MPs themselves do not "have the faintest idea" of the numbers [of the illegal immigrants in the UK]"... this is very scary, and screws up the whole system for honest people who come to work and integrate in a foreign country.
quote:DL-44 said:Please at least keep in mind that there is a huge difference between being an immigrant, and being an illegal immigrant.
And that was a huge mistake on my part. I did mean to use Illegal immigrant.
quote:DL-44 said:And um.............you'll have to elaborate on the "popular" part of it
That mistake being fixed, I meant that it made me sick to think, that not only are people here illegally, but they also feel that they can benefit from protesting.
The argument I dislike most is "They are doing jobs Americans won't do." That's pure bull hockey. I've had some of those jobs Americans won't do. I think they need to rephrase that argument with "Americans won't work for 2 dollars an hour and no benefits from sun up to sun down." I'm doing better for myself now.
quote:That mistake being fixed, I meant that it made me sick to think, that not only are people here illegally, but they also feel that they can benefit from protesting.
Well, at least somebody is fucking protesting. Don't you understand, we need more citizens like this because they "get it". They understand that an active populace can affect change. Anyways, how many of those protesting are legal and how many are not? We do not know this.
I personally have no problem with the illegals, because the majority of them come here seeking a better life for them and their families. That is a basic human drive and you cannot condemn people for that, at least not in an honest fashion. In fact, I admire their motivation and dedication. When is the last time you saw a white or black man standing out in front of home depot looking for work? We just collect welfare and lay around watching TV if we can't find work.
You also need to realize that the powerful Western nations suck all the resources from other parts of the world, pushing them down to lift ourselves up higher. Cannot blame anyone on the outside for wanting to be on the inside.
What I do have a problem with is the corporations who capitalize on the cheap labor, and in essence are the driving force behind illegal immigration. They would not come if there was not work available for undocumented individuals. They want to put up a fence on the border and put soldiers on the border (expensive, dangerous, and it won't work, and not to mention it will probably end up affecting American's civil liberties as well), but have we seen any solid legislation calling on punishing the greedy little pukes in suits for their actions and/or inaction?
No, those in government never seem to actually go to the root cause of a problem because that would affect their friends investments, their investments, and the economy in general. It's all about the almighty, yet ever dwindling, dollar. When we face a dilemma, we always go after the powerless branches of the tree rather than the roots, thus taxes go up, government gets ever larger, and things always get worse.
Bastards. We need a revolution. This is class warfare by any other name and so many do not even recognize it.
I think if we granted the amnesty to those here (because you are not going to deport them all, and anyway, we need them because white America is not reproducing) and cracked down on the employers who are the ones truly breaking the law, the problem would take care of itself. Over time, the hispanic population here would garner better wages and integrate into society just as all the other cultures who've come before them have, more or less anyways.
None of this matters anyway because it is only a matter of time before the US, Mexico and Canada join to form the Pan-American union and borders are extinguished altogether so that we can form a economic block powerful enough to compete in the global economy against a growing China and EU.
Live and let live, focus on the assholes in charge, not on the little people scrounging to get by.
From: Lost Angeles Kalifornia, via Hawaii.... Insane since: Jun 2001
posted 05-18-2006 17:14
I was going to avoid this topic as Im sort of mixed on this. Having just moved to LA from Hawaii and experiencing the protests first hand, I'm truly convinced that there is no "solution" to the problem.
I mean if you're here illegally and have been for say, 20+ years, where you gonna go if they deport you? What happens to their children who were born here? Being born in the US, doesn't that make you a US citizen? (im asking, im not sure....)
I believe there should be a process in making the illegalls "legal" but with all the millions of them already here, where do you start and most of all, who pays for it?
I'm used to the theory that American came to Hawaii and stole the land from the Hawaiian people, as they did with native indians, and the hawaiian people rally all the time to get rights back, land back, and eventually their own sovereign government. (i.e. they want everyone to go back to the mainland) But of course this will NEVER happen either. Just plain economy, politics, and business....
The only thing that frustrates me is that alot of ...(how do i say this without offending....) people of latin descent, that live in my neighborhood are unrully, ignorant and inconsiderate of anyone but themselves. Always drinking on the sidewalks, playing loud music till late hours in the night, and always yelling...... GAAAWWDD!!! And I live in a descent part of LA too!
(ok sorry, it's early, haven't had my coffee, and I'm sleep deprived....)
Being born in USA makes you a citizen. So does joining the armed forces I've been told. (That's got to be better pay than fruit picking.)
quote:...because the majority of them come here seeking a better life for them and their families.
Wouldn't they have an even better life if they became legal US citizens? Look at the immigrants from India. I went to school with one and his family owns a small hotel. I'm sure you've seen more than one hotel owned by an immigrant from India, I know I have. How long will it take them to stop and think... You know I could make even more money if I just learned English and passed a test to become a US citizen.
quote:Well, at least somebody is fucking protesting. Don't you understand, we need more citizens like this because they "get it". They understand that an active populace can affect change.
I work so I don't have time to go protest things. Maybe some of the students that were skipping class to protest will get jobs and then realize what 25% or so of the amount held from their check goes to.
Wouldn't they have an even better life if they became legal US citizens?
Yeah, sounds great. Until reality comes back into the picture.
The road to citizenship for the average illegal immigrant, through the standard legal process, is obviously something that a great many people would love to do.
It is also pretty clear that a huge number of them choose the risk of entering and living illegally instead. Why do you think this might be?
1) There are limits on the number of people who can legally immigrate into the US. There are limits to the number of people who can enter the country on work visas, on educational visas, etc (and of course, if you are here on an educational visa, you cannot work, so you better be quite rich!).
Becoming an actual citizen, even for those people, is still a very long process.
2) If you have no money, no exisiting family here, forget it.
3) If a person is willing to risk death to get here, live a limited, dangerous, uncertain life while here, in fear of being deported, unable to improve their lives beyond a certain point, what does that tell you about their situation, and about the options open to them?
Do you imagine that there are 'become a US citizen' schools, welcoming all of Mexico's poor and desperate, teaching them english, filling out forms, prepping them?
quote: At0mic_PC said:
Maybe some of the students that were skipping class to protest will get jobs and then realize what 25% or so of the amount held from their check goes to.
You mean like - oh, building roads, schools, hospitals, armies, medicare, and the multitude of other things our taqxes go to? Or are you suggesting that all of our tax dollars are somehow spent because of illegal immigrants?
quote: At0mic_PC said:
I work so I don't have time to go protest things.
So.....working eliminates time for the things that are important to a person?
Funny...I work too. I bet everyone else posting here does too.
Do you think maybe it's just you?
.
Sounds like you are in desperate need of a good dose of reality, atomic...
Here in Texas where we are right next to Mexico there is a hugh population of hispanics who are illegal. Some of my husband's family members are here illegally. They were very poor in Mexico and wanted a better life and they have one. They have been here for about 8 years. The husband was deported once but was back the next week. He just walked through customs. He is blue eyed and he dyed his hair blond so they mistook him of an Anglo. He said no matter how many times they deport him he will always be back. His wife has a job and he has his own business doing road work for stranded persons. He fixes tires and hauls their car off and does minor car work. They are good people who used to go to bed hungry. Have we ever experience real starvation? Who has been to Mexico and experienced begging by a multitude of children because they are very hungry. Their parents send them out to beg very young to fend for themselves.
These relatives of my husband are hard workers and very smart. The wife already does web design and has three of her children in public schools. She has a job at burger king and she is illegal. Figure that. Anyway, they want to become citizens and learn good english. Already they can understand much. I think to have borders to keep people out is very wrong. What if the Indians did that to the Nina, Pinta and the Santa Maria. They did not ask for papers and not let them dock. Instead explorers took over their land and massacred them.
Already San Antonio is almost all hispanic. In my opinion no border patrol, army or national guard can stop the flow of immigrants from coming to USA to work and live.
I am hispanic of Mexican descent but I did not come from Mexico. Nor did my side of the family. I am from here because Texas use to be Mexico. My ancestors never went anywhere. But my husbands family is from Mexico City.. Some have made Texas and California their home but they are here legally because back then if you married a citizen or had a child here you were automatically legalized.
I don't see much blacks or anglos working in housing constructon, road construction, kitchen resturant help, hotel maids, builidng construction or pool construction or lawn service or trash service. And what about all the fruits and veggies you eat?. Who picks them? They do the jobs nobody wants to do because the pay is very low. When you are hungry you take anything and so what if they want to send the money to Mexico to feed their families. We live in the land of the rich and prosper. We should be able to share the wealth with others and not be greedy. Its not as if they are not working for the money .They work just as hard and maybe even harder than anyone else.
quote:What if the Indians did that to the Nina, Pinta and the Santa Maria. They did not ask for papers and not let them dock. Instead explorers took over their land and massacred them.
There's a lot I could say about your post, jade, but most of all I'd like you to explain this statement to me again. I'm trying very hard to find any logic in it at all.
What type of government will be in place if that happens? And what happens to "We the people?" Could this be a "more perfect union" or a "new world order?" What about my rights?
quote:What type of government will be in place if that happens?
Plain and simple. Corporations. This is exactly what the "New World Order" is.
As far as your rights go, well, a corporation's primary goal is to make money for its shareholders. So I suggest you buy some stock quick.
As far as your country goes, it does not exist anymore to begin with. These so-called "free-trade" agreements such as NAFTA and CAFTA, not to mention the WTO and the World Bank whose sole purpose is to facilitate a globalized economy, have already set the stage for stealing away what remains of national sovereignty, and in the long run will result in the theft of what little remaining personal sovereignty you have left as well.
They will own the water, the roads, the power, the armies, and even the means to produce food (do a search on seed patenting). In short, they will continue along as they do today, only what little protection we get from governments will be gone.
You are a slave to the system now, and you will be more of a slave in the near future if things continue going the way they are. The middle-class is being phased out.
OZONE Asylum
posted 05-17-2006 02:23
To be honest, I do think that the issues starts with situations like here in the UK, where the MPs themselves do not "have the faintest idea" of the numbers [of the illegal immigrants in the UK]"... this is very scary, and screws up the whole system for honest people who come to work and integrate in a foreign country.
