Topic: Guantanamo

I did a quick search in the Asylum for "Guantanamo" and it brought back thirteen results. None for 2006, three from 2005, eight from 2004 and two from 2003.
I mention this because I thought there must have been a more recent discussion here that I may have missed during one of my walkabouts and I wanted to see what the consensus of opinion was.

Again I hesitate. It has taken me over an hour to complete the first paragraph, the reason? Guantanamo is a highly charged subject and I have no wish to antagonise. It would be easier for me to say nothing, but I find I can't. I was looking to "Lazarus" a recent thread but there is none as far as I can see.

Guantanamo is for me a blight, a cancer, a complete travesty of "justice" that all people, not just Americans, should demand the termination of. How anyone can think it is serving any useful purpose at all is beyond me. The useage of the word Guantanamo now is symptomatic of everything that is wrong about America, and the so called War on Terror.
I have been on three protest marches over as many years specifically targeted at the obscene Guantanamo practice and each march has been attended by tens of thousands if not near a hundred thousand people whose numbers have been quoted a lot lower by the police and news.

There have been recent developments and I hope this is the beginning of the end of that hateful place and practice, but I have real fear that it may well not. We cannot talk to any other country about human rights violations and "axis of evils" while the spectre of Guantanamo is proof positive of America's duplicity to it's critics.

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The US Supreme Court has ruled that President Bush does not have the authority to order detainees at Guantanamo Bay to be tried by military commissions.

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This verdict undercuts a key element of the administration's plan for dealing with the hundreds of people held at the US Naval base in Cuba.

Here are a few quoted responses to the verdict:

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George W Bush, US President said
As I understand it - now, please don't hold me to this - ... there is a way forward with military tribunals in working with the United States Congress.

And one thing I'm not going to do, though, is I'm not going to jeopardise the safety of the American people.

I understand we're in a war on terror, that these people were picked up off of a battlefield, and I will protect the people and at the same time conform with the findings of the Supreme Court.

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Neal Katyal, lawyer for detainee Salim Ahmed Hamdan
I would caution those who say that this is kind of "President Bush lost today". President Bush didn't lose today; America and our founders won today, by adhering to our most fundamental values as a people.

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Michael Mori, lawyer for Australian prisoner David Hicks
It doesn't come as a shock to me. The military lawyers who have been defending the defendants at Guantanamo have been saying this all along. Any real lawyer who isn't part of the administration knows this violates the Geneva Conventions.

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Jose-Luis Diaz, spokesman for United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Louise Arbour
On the merits, it would seem to be a vindication of the need for vigilance in the protection of all human rights, including those of persons suspected of terrorism.

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Am I missing something here, does anyone think that Guantanamo is making the world a safer place? I think it acts as a beacon for all who want to "prove" the injustices brought apon the world by the USA.
I would like to state again for those who may be unsure, I am not anti-American, but I am anti-crass stupidity and anti-war mongering "Masters of War"

Perhaps the medication is not working and I am seeing the world through doom tinted spectacles. What are your thoughts?

War is not the answer.
Tao

::tao:::: ::cell::

(Edited by Tao on 07-13-2006 03:22)

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War is not the answer.

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Tell that to Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raython, Carlyle, General Dynamics, General Electric, KBR, Northrop Grumman, Blackwater USA, etc.

As the armies of the major nations shrink, the number of corporations that provide military assistance grow. War has never been so profitable.

As far as Guantanamo goes, my thoughts echo yours Tao. Guess there is nothing much else to say anymore.

Ram

Guantanamo is just a name.

Such places exist all over the world.

The problem with Guantanamo is that it became a "known place" - thus its usefulness is now debatable.

Guantanamo is nothing. If you had a real look at how governments do business, you would probably get sick. Or lose your faith in mankind. Consider Guantanamo just the tip of the iceberg, if you wish.

It is not the places like Guantanamo that is the problem. It is the people and societies that tolerate, and yes, even support such places.

It is you and me.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

I was hoping to find a photograph taken of me a couple years ago at an "Anti War" protest march wearing a T-shirt with "Not in My Name" printed front and back.
Alas, I have not been able to find it so I can't post it up here yet...

I realise that the world is a nasty place WS and I do not have any "faith in mankind" to lose. I do have faith in a few people I have met and some personal friends, but that is about it with humans.

I am a member of Amnesty International and as such I have heard of quite a few places that imprison wrongfully and abuse prisoners. This knowledge does not lessen the impact of Guantanamo for me. Every incidence of torture and abuse like this is equally wrong. The fact that this time it is not a dictatorship or "Third World government" but the largest democratic superpower the world has known, is deeply frightening.

Again I say, not in my name. I have marched in London, Liverpool and Manchester against the war in Iraq. I do not support this war in any way at all

War, huh, yeah. What is it good for?

::tao:::: ::cell::

(Edited by Tao on 08-10-2006 02:43)

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The fact that this time it is not a dictatorship...

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We have a "president" who is virtually above the law and his political opponents are too afraid to oppose him in a substantial way. We have a leadership that outright lied to the American people to drag us into war and plans to take us into further conflict. We have a leadership that has spent over $1.6 billion in propaganda over the last few years. We have a leadership that was questionably elected the first time and the second time was elected only because the MSM and politivcal opponents are in a state of either apathy or fear to report the truth. We have a leadership that has sold out the American people time and time again. We have a leadership who tells us for the foreseeable long-term future, our only purpose is to fight the "War on Terror." That is no future!

In short, while we may not fit the traditional term of "dictatorship," we are certainly much closer to that than any form of democratic Republic. Welcome to the new world and the new American Empire.

I tend to believe that we have entered a new phase in American history. The empire is in its death throes, fighting tooth and nail to keep our influence (political, economic, etc.) in the world, and it is prettyy scary to think what these people in power might resport to in order to retain dominance. Guantanamo is a very small piece of the puzzle, and only the beginning.

Of course, from what I am seeing, you blokes over in Airstrip One are not much better off.

Next stop, Iran.

Ram

ps. Yes, I have become a pessimistic bastard as of late. The ignorance of the majority of my fellow countrymen has led me to this demeanor. Without the people waking up, we are powerless to stop their plans for global dominance at any cost, and thus will reap what we have sown. Good times.