I have not been on-line as regularly as I would like in recent times. This means that it has been a little more difficult for me join in the general "cut and thrust" of daily life here. Hopefully this will change, as all things must, over the next few months.
This is something I have been thinking of for quite some time now.
There are many things in our life that conspire to define us. From being inhabitants of planet Earth to being inhabitants of (insert home address here) and more still, if further definition is needed.
One of the myriad of traits that go towards defining the type of person I am in everyday life is my intolerance of bullies. Some people bully without realising it while others prey on what they see as other peoples weaknesses. For me for instance, not to say anything when I believe I hear racism, which is a form of bulling, is just as bad as my making the racist comments myself.
In our on-line lives, like here at the Asylum, the main thing that defines us to others are our words and how we use them, at least that is how it seems to me. It did not take long for me to realise that it is so very easy to write a post to a forum, in anger, without much thought, only to regret it later. I now take great care in my posts to try not to offend or insult. I also realise that there are people who post here who are not native English speakers so some latitude is needed when reading their posts, although I have to say the standard of English here is very high, from both native and non-native speakers.
This is why, you may see me from time to time take a person to task who I believe is being a bully in some form or other, whether they realise it or not. I understand that I run the risk of misinterpreting the situation but it's a risk I'm willing to take. This world can be a cruel nasty place, I have no time for people who want to add to that misery.
Here is an example.
A long while back someone here, I can't remember who just now, posted up a photograph of a young boy with Down's syndrome who is running in a race and looks delighted with himself. Below the photo was the caption "Arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."
I really dislike that sentiment, and I said so too in the next post. It must seem like I am being unreasonable, but I have lived and worked with people with Down's and I know that they generally are beautiful people who are really hurt by this arrogant thoughtless attitude. They have a lot to cope with in their lives without the cruel comments from others.
What are your thoughts my fellow Asylumites? I believe that in any worthwhile relationship on-line or not, honesty and communication are key factors. Or is this one of those things that defines me but is not true for others?
Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
From: The Land of one Headlight on. Insane since: May 2001
posted 03-07-2008 07:16
I've been speaking out against racism most of my life and frankly I'm getting exhausted. The older I get the more intolerant I become on such things as racism, fundamentalists of any and all stripe and the "they meant well" crowd.
Over the past half dozens years or so I've been severing or keeping at arms length friends, pals, acquaintances and relatives...relationships, some of which go back 50 years. That's how I've been coming to terms with my personal hypocrisy. After 50 years of trying to knock the racism out of them I can no longer attach the label 'friend'. And that's very very tough to do considering how generous and helpful to me, 'they' have been over the years. Can't get much more hypocritical than calling a racist, friend - when I've been battling against racism for what seems like forever.
My most recent dealing with the "they meant well" crowd came when I was attending a local Council meeting. A delegation of parents presented a progress report on the refurbishing of a playground which included replacement of playground equipment that no longer met current safety standards.
Part of the plan included shipping the old playground equipment to Africa where the safety standards aren't quite as stringent so kids there would have something to play on.
I drew some rather blank stares when I asked... So if the equipment isn't safe enough for your kids to play on what makes it safe enough for the kids in Africa to play on? Ahhh but they meant well... their hearts were in the right place.
Kaboom!
I could go on and on... but hey. Almost forgot... I remember the 'still retarded' photo and my hope then and still ..is youthful ignorance.
___________________________________________________________________________
?It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.? Voltaire
This post might be a little uncomfortable, but it certainly shouldn't cause widespread offence. If it does, then man-kind is likely already doomed.
I don't like bullies of any kind, and I give no quarter to them. I have managed to get myself into trouble in the past by intervening in altercations with seemingly undue ferocity - I really don't like bullies. I was even attacked by a woman for dragging her drunken boyfriend off of her on the street.
I'm decidedly anti-bully, but find it frustrating that I can't tell a good joke without worrying who it will offend. I find the term 'racism' has started to become little more than a gag on self-expression for a large number of people; it confounds honest communication. The fact that I can't use a word that others of a different creed are free to use liberally just smacks of absurdity, and makes a farce of equality. I'm surrounded by vociferous racists who just happen to be ethnic minorities, but they are overlooked.
I see a white woman attacked by a group of young black men being treated as a victim of assault. I see a black man attacked by a white man being treated as a victim of racism. This strikes me as a problem, and an increasingly dangerous one in my city as violent youth crime escalates, and the current political climate leads to friction between specific sub-communities.
I like a good joke, and sometimes it seems that may be at the expense of others, but I come from a culture that has been able to laugh at itself for many, many generations. I just wish everybody else had a sense of bloody humour too.
As an example - I love a good joke at the expense of the French. Why is this more acceptable than any other joke that singles out a particular culture? Why is the term 'paddy' less offensive than many other terms?
Deliberate and targetted racism is wrong. Jokes at the expense of the disabled ('differently abled'?) or differently proportioned are distasteful. Sexual discrimination is generally unacceptable... but there are lines, and they are not well drawn. For instance, why should it be wrong to prefer to employ a single man over a married woman who's trying for children, when in many cases, it makes sound business sense? Why should it be wrong to prefer an employee who can speak decent English in a British call centre? Why should it be wrong to profile your target when using stop-and-search powers to increase security on public transport (and for instance, choose to stop the young asian man instead of the little old lady)? Why should it be worse to insult your race than your intelligence or hair colour, when either should be completely unacceptable in the case of violence or deliberately offensive abuse? Why should it be wrong to advertise for a black actor to play Othello? Sometimes, PC just isn't logical.
As for the 'still retarded' gag; yes, it's distasteful, and it isn't kind, but it made a point, and it made me giggle. I refuse to be ashamed of that, even if I agree that the joke isn't pleasant. I admit that sometimes I have a distasteful sense of humour, and have sometimes laughed at people falling on their faces (shock, horror).
In my case, I'm very hard to offend unless my intellect and good manners are called into question. I have survived many a racist slur, cruel comments on my physique, and countless, endless 'four-eye' jokes as a kid... but I cry like a baby at any accusation of being stupid or uncouth. It's just the way I am.
I agree with you all basically. For me this is such a large, depressing and utterly complex topic I don't know where to start. My feeling is that intolerance is inevitable, somehow inherent to the human nature. An outcome of trying to simplify things and one's frustration with the complexity of it all.
But in a more general sense...
Appearances aren't the only source of conflict. People are different in so many ways. Culture, nationality, way of thinking, temperament, intelligence, wisdom and the list goes on forever. What are the things that everyone should be tolerant about? What are the things that we should disapprove? Where does the line go? I think that in a way it all boils down to intention and hate. It's probably important not to hate. But is it possible for a human being to hate nothing? We aren't always capable of evaluating the intentions of others. Should we hate people who have done wrong or should we believe in them, support them with guidance? It's ultimately our culture that defines and simplifies the rules for tolerance in our lives. But is that culture the right one? Is the strive for tolerance in all things the way of a good person? Probably not because absolute tolerance means apathy. We act based on our values. We do what we think is good for us. Being intolerant of irrelevant cultural or other insignificant differences is just ignorance is it not? Should we then be intolerant of stupid people? What if it is not their fault they're stupid. Is it then right to be intolerant?
I tried to post this last night but the coffee shop cut me off... lol. I agree whole-heartedly, Tao. there is such a lack of tolerance in society today its sickening. When something blatent gets posted or someone shows me how closed their mind really is... I can't stand aside and let that pass.
In regards to your post arthurio... hate is a very, very black and white term. I do not hate the people I argue with over such things as this post is about. In point of fact, I don't hate anyone. I do expect people to feel the consequences of how they act and who they are so they can learn on their own. I'm not going to tell them how to act, not my place or my job. If they insist on acting inappropriately... they will understand very clearly the consequences of acting in that fashion.
Without personal consequence people don't have the parameters to learn and grow.
From: Darwin, NT, Australia Insane since: Dec 2003
posted 03-08-2008 05:30
For myself, my pet hate is ignorance, which probably includes all the points made above... at least I'd like to be gracious enough to think that bullying, and racism, is down to ignorance.
People that just can't be polite, jam ya on the road, or footpath, grrrr; those that spout crap to people that haven't any immediate way of calling them out (politicians, I'm looking your way).
Maybe I'm gettin' older and ornery, but the general, and tolerated , level of rudeness in day to day life seems ta be escalating
For what it's worth, I think that too. I think integrity is a primary component of any interaction.
I think fear is helping biases in communication in general, and that social fear is a plague of our times -
we all fear way too many things and fear triggers defense, which triggers agression.
I think we assume way too much about other people, for example, an inability to evolve from their mistakes :
too many people stick to "once a liar, always a liar", or to conduct guidelines to rule their interactions, while perceptions
are individual, very different, and ALWAYS biased : nobody is ever 100% right and nothing is perfectly dark or white.
Too many people stick to blending a person's identity and their religious, or social, beliefs also, in the same vein.
I think respect is important, but should be mutual - I am not likely to display any respect towards anyone who lacks some to me, there is no reason.
With all these in mind : I judge people based on their current actions.
I always cut slack to people who I knew to be "like this or that" in the past.
I always cut slack to people who come to me with strange religious beliefs - and want to get to know what is so wonderful to them about it.
I never will show mercy to someone who knowingly stepped on my boundaries - those get what they called for.
Always. Jade does deserve a hug for she faced so many flames and managed to stick to her beliefs : she deserves praises for that,
she demonstrated more integrity than many mods around here will ever get to have in their lives.
Words are words - should be taken with a grain of salt, eventhough some may not be pronounced.
Acts are acts.
Visible politeness is not preventing manipulation, being a representative of the government never made
agent Smith a worthy "individual" in the Matrix. But he was polite. In the end, prejudices, misconceptions, and personal weaknesses
are the fuel to all conflicts, so words? Are not enough for me to define a person.
Do you deny that you deliberately misled everyone here when you started posting as argo navis? I seem to remember you saying something like "who is this InI " when you were searching the Archives. You actively denied knowing "InI"
So you started off your "new leaf" with a lie. This is what I mean by you being a very manipulative person.
Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
Absolutely not. I don't deny that, and explained my reasons already.
Do you deny my apologizing publicly for it? I can link to the thread - or summarize my reasons for that right here, right now.
And shall we use this thread to quietly adress these questions, so I can hear your views, you can hear mine, and we can call it quits?
I'd be glad to.
Yes I would like links to you apologising publicly for misleading everyone here.
I think I remember you talking about the reasons, but as you have already agreed with me that honesty is needed in relations I don't think your reasons add up to much.
Still, just in case I might have missed something I'd like to hear them again.
Those who look for monsters should look to it that
they do not become monsters. For when you gaze
long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
Kay, hold on. And thanks for the opportunity to EXPLAIN in calm and out of otherwise worthy threads.
So, search result :
quote:
Okay. It certainly is time to give it away. <drum roll>
Firstly, I am sincerely sorry for the way I sneaked in : I wanted to spread a new, and natural image of myself before
revealing the truth. I *do* feel bad about the comedy bit of it, and ask for apologies.
If I had landed back *under the sunlight*, it would have been *creepy vibes* allover the place, and I did not want that either.
Now, you may agree or not with my reasons, that is your entire freedom, but let me expand a bit on them - at least I'll have tried :
quote:
1) prior to coming back here, I tested the water about being direct, by telling Webshaman, on chat, who I was.
His reaction left me speechless - I won't quote it, but it went far, within a second.
He had asked me not to tell him, because it would introduce a bias, for him, into how he would handle me at the Asylum.
This is what happened : his reaction was defense/agression, and to this day, he is keeping it up someway/somehow.
2) Had I done the same directly here, I thought the general reaction would have been the same - and it certainly would have been.
That's why I opted for the "disguise" : not to deceive, to cause the minimal disruption - it is the only way I saw to cause a minimal disruption.
As much as it doesn't make sense to you, understand I would not take the time if it didn't make sense TO ME.
I don't want to point fingers : WS reaction was "somehow natural" but clearly out of proportions - and it made me feel, as I just said :
"ok, post in there as InI and within ten minutes the discussion will be so dead that you will have a hard time contributing anything at all, anytime".
Few weeks after this, I was pushing initiatives here and there, and a new 20 liners competition.
While offering 1GB space and a mysql database to Wrayal, and pestering Arhturio about trusting his skills and
entering the 20 liners.
Thanks for the link argo I had not read that bit before. Now where to begin....
I am 99% certain that you made the wrong move by coming back to the Asylum pretending not to know anything about your previous "incarnations" here. Within about a month or two of you arriving, I knew argo navis was previously InI and I am 100% sure other people did too. I was going to either PM you about it or post up an expose but I decided to let you work through it yourself.
I was however, irritated by the deceit and I hope you can empathise with this. I don't know exactly why you left the Asylum in the first place as I was offline at the time but I do know you cause a lot of grief here demanding that all of your posts be deleted rendering a lot of them useless. In this way I believe you also threatened the Doc himself with court action.
So to just drift in here under another name and as you imply "behave" yourself for a few months and expect everything to be hunky dory is unfathomable. If you were to tell me that you apologised to the Doc and whoever was involved in removing all your posts and who had to deal with your rants before you came back ( I'm presuming this was Tyberius Prime) that would help a lot towards understanding your actions.
Have you apologised to the Doc and those who were involved?
Just in case you think I'm fooling about knowing argo was ini, here is a link to my cell Taobaybee if you look at the photo at the bottom of the page you will see that I have written above the photo my suspicions (backwards)
I'll post this now as I know I've been away longer than I expected but I feel there is still more to say.
This is a really great opportunity to me - I hope you can empathize with my need to have someone ask genuinely and
offer this kind of discussion. It IS a breath of fresh air.
quote:
I knew argo navis was previously InI and I am 100% sure other people did too.
Certainly. And I was aware of that back then too : I left CLEAR cues as to where I lived, what I did for living, and what kind of music I liked, etc.
Believe it or not : this was on purpose. Again, in an attempt, clumsy or not, to test the water.
quote:
I was however, irritated by the deceit and I hope you can empathise with this.
Completely. I said it : I am genuinely sorry for that. But from my perspective, I hope you can understand it was not an easy choice -
being direct about it was not easy at all, sincerely. I decided to do it, since then. And I have kept doing it, living up to it, and receiving difficult
moments from some inmates - justified or not, I was expecting those but ready to deal with them. For the sake of taking responsibility.
And it still is far from being easy : it's difficult every single time I post, I never really know what to expect, but I know there will be defensiveness -
justified for some - in the replies I'll get.
Every single time I post. And that's a high price to pay - high enough? I think so.
You'll even find me asking bugs how to work on rebuilding trust, and several threads asking inmates about proper communication
when I inadvertently hurt some inmates feelings.
quote:
If you were to tell me that you apologised to the Doc and whoever was involved in removing all your posts and who had to deal with your rants before you came back ( I'm presuming this was Tyberius Prime) that would help a lot towards understanding your actions.
I did, but not prior to coming back. Don't have me dig that one up too (time constraint - I can if you really need it).
Basically, Webshaman, during the pre-comeback chat episode, asked some other mods about it, and reported a tolerant guy's answer to me,
which was "ok if he behaves, why not?". If I remember correctly.
I'd love to do more than just apologizing about it - I see ways to "fix" that damage.
As I said, I am making a constant amend, everytime I post, in addition to the apologies, because it's a true pain
to expect a harsh reaction around the corner.
And it's a true pain to keep calm with that pressure in the air.
AND it's a true pain to other inmates too : hence my stressing "there comes a time a line has to be drawn".
Opinion(s)? Everyone's opinion is welcome, but please preserve mutual respect at least for this thread - as much as possible.
I sincerely am doing my best.
Coercion, which is what you're lining up to here, and something I have already adressed, is about :
>> pushing someone to presupposed negative behaviors to prove your point.
How would you react if I was to say to you "youareevilyouareevilyouareevilyouarevil" 1000 times a day?
Short of believing it, you'd surely tell me to go fuck myself - it's easy afterwards to go "see, I TOLD YOU you were evil".
Easy. Pointless. Obvious. Predictable. And childish. I am terribly disappointed in you in that regard.
As per my other thread in this forum today, the above is even a documented tactic at distorting reality : "coercion in debate"
gets it's wikipedia entry, and it's scientific studies.
Coercion and your reaction certainly is not about respect. Making it now six polite requests from me that you chose to ignore.
And you have lost any right to claim any respect from me the first time around, but I am making you a couple of extra courtesies here,
and will add one right now :
Why do you behave this way to me?
I have already asked this to you offline a long time ago, why you were hell bent on negativity towards me and if you
were aware of being so negative. Remember?
You have not replied to that - never. Which I take as a "yes I know and it is on purpose" - another thing I wouldn't expect
from an adult, less from you who I considered a friend at some point.
So, as a very natural consequence, I don't like your way to approach me anymore, and I don't like talking to you anymore,
I don't even read your threads anymore. You're not fun to me, not respectful for certain, and a little less than not constructive
at all in your attempt at "politely telling me how much you know and how wrong I am" all the time. Even when I ask you not to.
Now, since you want to persist, and since I am too disappointed in you to even resort to picking up on that vulgar
and steamy pile of bullshit...
Just tell me, what exactly is hurting you that badly down inside?
I left CLEAR cues as to where I lived, what I did for living, and what kind of music I liked, etc.
Believe it or not : this was on purpose. Again, in an attempt, clumsy or not, to test the water.
One of the main reasons I had for starting this thread was to emphasise the importance of the choice of words we use when we communicate on-line in forums, IM's or the like. In the absence of visual clues or even the mere physicality of another persons presence. It is the words we use that go a long way to defining the type of person we are, and the possible intent we have behind the sentiments/views expressed.
I knew it was you not by any of the "clues" you mention, but by the "tone" of your posts. The words you choose when communicating with another.
I realise you must already know what I'm about to say but I feel it's worth saying anyway. I have this written in my cell too under *Red Mists*
quote:I have to confess that:
Even though I believe with all my heart and spirit, that a peacefull, calm and considered respect for all living things is essential, not only for my personal well being and happiness, but for all, on this little blue planet.
That anger, is usually the first emotion that takes hold of me at times of discord. An anger that sweeps all thought of consideration and respect for others aside, with an ease that shocks me.
These "Red Mists" are a shameful thing, I am not proud of them. They are a negative and unworthy act.
In this world we are in, right now, here. It is far too easy to say things "in the heat of the moment" click a button, and it's done. Almost without thought, we can spew our worst thoughts out into the world and very seldom retrieve them without hurting others.
The internet thrives on instant communication. Considered thoughts and respectful judgment does not.
Again you will notice the (somtimes) inordinate amount of time it takes me to write a post. It is not you I dislike argo, it is the way you sometimes blast through a conversation IMO aggressively and selfishly. This distracts the reader and sets up negative feedback.
There should be no points given for not being aggressive. No plaudits for reasonable behavior. This should be the default setting.
I'm sure there are lot's more to say but I want to post this up due to thew amount of time I take to reply.
Oh yeah I think sometimes I may be "defined" as a tad too sensitive, but I'd rather be accused of that than being an insensitive jerk.
and...
If not to-night then during the next few days I plan to comment on the really good post after my initial post. I have to say now though Arthurio don't let hate in too easy, Hate is a nasty emotion that cripples your spirit.
To me, it goes more like :
My intentions are so deeply, sincerely, constructive. Obsessively even : when I posted the thing about my business card,
I kept all the traces of improvements public for this very reason.
I wanted to TAKE brilliant advice. But I cared a lot about GIVING the archives a concrete case study, about a known "identity",
with clear footprints of every steps and improvements I went through.
I never cared to attract attention : I attract attention whatever I do, I am the kind of tall and unusal guy anyway.
As I was trying to explain to kimson, one of my hobbies/passion actually are other people. Humans amaze me for they
are capable of the best AND the worst, and every single person I have met had something good about themselves.
So when I say something "too harsh to be true", I never expect people to receive it as just that.
My bad, you're right.
Another factor is the language : I speak four. I mix them at times.
I have other things to add to the topic, when we get back to the "core", but I completely understand your point(s).
All I can do about them right now is...
Listen actively.
And persist towards a positive outcome.
Easy tiger. All I was saying was that some treat you "badly" because some of your post remind us the old InI days. No matter how carefully people try to answer you, it often ends up with an outburst.
quote:I have already asked this to you offline a long time ago, why you were hell bent on negativity towards me and if you were aware of being so negative. Remember? You have not replied to that - never.
You must be kidding. Right. I told you I had nothing against you. That your outburst of the moment was uncalled for for some posts can easily be misinterpreted and the whole world was not against you. In short I told you to question what triggered the attack, behave as a grown up and move on. Do YOU remember ?
Let's take a look at my only "interventions" in that drama and see how negative I was towards you or anyone:
quote:Can we all behave like Gentlemen and ladies here ?
... and a few posts later
quote:Anyway. Can all put on our happy face ? it's friday, we're here to make cool tiny scripts and have fun, right.
Why am I usually a bit more direct with you than with others, and what is hurting me badly down inside ?
Because I know you can take direct/blunt communication. The fact that I know you can do better. Seing you go apeshit for nothing. The fact that you refuse to listen when people try to help, and ignore pointers when what you read doesn't go your way.
quote:
Oh yeah I think sometimes I may be "defined" as a tad too sensitive, but I'd rather be accused of that than being an insensitive jerk.
One day, I told White Hawk, after some posts that were clearly not "in phase" with one another, "should I teach you how to read?".
I have always remembered White Hawk as a good guy with a great insight into what makes the animal realm tick, and lots of positivity/constructive
input to deliver. I was totally giggling when saying that, but not mocking : I meant "I have already answered that question a few posts before."
Nowadays, I see how it hurted and why - much to do with the missing smileys, and much to do with me being, apparently, an "insensitive jerk" on that one.
Nothing to do with the negative intention that was lent to me back then.
Much to do, also, with an expectation of agressivity on my side. But I am listening.
...poi, just do not want to adress your points here and now, this is Tao's thread. Let's take it to the stage for trout pong match instead.
You go apeshit on me, here in Tao's thread, accuse me of coercion towards you where there was none ( how the hell was I pushing you ? ) , make false claims about me and the content of a discussion we've had, said on a few occasions that you don't give a fuck about me. I'm sorry sir, I will not go to the stage for trout pong match with you.
Again skewing my argument? I am calling you OUT of Tao's thread, you're the one bashing further here, and now.
I dare you, if YOU can take public criticism, to take it to the trout thread
(oh, but you already replied - ah yeah, righto, you're on whiney 14 years old girl behavior mode at the moment).
I will tell you, off-board, on-board, with exact quotes (the discussion we had offline was days after that drama, btw,
and you NEVER answered my questions - you seemed very happy with sounding like a total asshole and leaving it at that -
and I was already complaining about your preacher style back then - you still sound like that :
wanting to help me YET constantly crossing my limits, calling me on God knows what right here and not taking my reply).
For God's sake : such a dihonest willingness to help, once again, belongs in places I won't name.
I'll leave it at that for a few days, but trust me, I WILL catch you around the corner and WILL get through this for a last dance.
And trust me : after such a dance you will have SERIOUS reasons to whine - involving no insults.
Just the fACTS. Emphasis on the ACTS part of facts.
"Oh, Mommy, I just provoked the sad show, but I am sorry, can I have my m&m's?"
Before you, the last person I heard pull some bullshit of that kind was one of my nieces.
If you were SORRY about anything, you would have STOPPED sniffing me days ago when I asked
you for the first time out of seven. It's too late to be sorry.
A question to Tao now, to get things back to topic :
quote:
I told you I had nothing against you. That your outburst of the moment was uncalled for for some posts can easily be misinterpreted and the whole world was not against you. In short I told you to question what triggered the attack, behave as a grown up and move on. Do YOU remember ?
Poi is lying here. Or poorly remembering. Or both. I have just checked my icq history and am keeping the translations
for further reference and for another thread.
Lies are not a "directly worded" way to disrespect someone. Still, guy is simply raping my words and skewing what really was said.
Now, if exact words matter that much to you...
quote:
It is not you I dislike argo, it is the way you sometimes blast through a conversation IMO aggressively and selfishly.
How am I supposed to react to someone who, even if he doesn't do it overtly, tries to manipulate or lie to me or about me?
This is not about the community : I now have something personal against poi, I tried to defuse it a few times by asking him to give me a break,
he is ignoring this and being a total asshole to me - directly. I could ignore him, but the lying bit of it is so ugly.
And the problem here, for me, are not the words : it truely is the ACT - the word may seem ok, but does anyone here fail
to see poi's intent at provocating me? The lying truely made it succeed : in a Goodwinish way, when Hitler is quoted
or off-board words are turned to lies...
quote:There should be no points given for not being aggressive. No plaudits for reasonable behavior. This should be the default setting.
But it should be the default setting both ways.
Poi : Nemesis, I don't need. I have peope who love me or hate me to death and beyond - way too many to my taste.
quote:
No matter how carefully people try to answer you, it often ends up with an outburst.
I am not asking for care. Not meaning to bully. Not afraid of criticism either - clearly.
One of the things I hate is feeling I am wasting my time. One way I hate wasting it is over petty battles
with otherwise ok people.
...Your defining yourself as my Nemesis is much closer to the true motive of your actions towards me, this said
And it is a form of compliment. All this is understood. More to come.
I understand po1.
I have a great respect for you and your points of view.
All the time I have known you here you have been helpful, kind, humorous and generally an asset to the Asylum IMO.
You have not offended me here and I doubt if you ever will
Sorry for not continuing this thread to-day, but I needed a break from my inarticulate meanderings to get my focus back. There are more things I'd like to throw into the mix.
For now I'll just ponder
quote:
Me : And shall we use this thread to quietly adress these questions, so I can hear your views, you can hear mine, and we can call it quits?
I'd be glad to.
Tao : Yes I would like links to you apologising publicly for misleading everyone here.
Permission had been granted by Tao for an explanation - so what thread hijacking are you talking about?
Further down the road :
quote:
Me : Opinion(s)? Everyone's opinion is welcome, but please preserve mutual respect at least for this thread - as much as possible.
I sincerely am doing my best.
..To which you replied, poi. A problem here, to me, is the fact of replying in and of itself
- the reason why I asked you to stop talking to me in the first place was that I wanted to
prevent a problem, as per the above quote - I felt you were going on my nerves days ago.
I can break that down to details AND make it relevant to the topic at hands if needed - turning a conflict into a usable example.
Short version of that :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
People define themselves by personal thresholds of tolerance too,
which vary depending on external factors - the polite thing to do
when someone does their best to ask you to stay away from such a treshold
IS to stay away until they can afford loosening the said treshold.
Acknowledging that you are answering the right question is a great way to remove
any doubt as to your intent when communicating. You seem genuine, but as I said a while ago
I was utterly busy doing ten gazillion of things at the same time lately, so
"I know you can do better" as a moto, in webdesign terms - rather than business development terms,
was impossible to handle for me.
I am doing the BEST possible professional achievement for an individual, and it costs me weeks
around the clock. Undermining that because of LI... that's where active listening matters.
The same applies to WS jumping on the "thread hijack" bandwagon : that thread hijack occured in his mind,
not in the orange cells were someone said "can I?" and the thread starter replied "you can".
From: Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 03-11-2008 10:10
This is not an avenue to use to argue about something that is wildly off-topic.
Please stay on topic.
If you want to start a topic on what you perceive has been wronged, etc, then post it in the Basement and I will be more than happy to address your personal issues.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Webshaman : these questions are answered in the above post - this is completely ON TOPIC actually.
It's funny you respond to the importance of Active Listening by... not reading, and not listening.
It's expected also from you, because it has grown into a habit, and your personal pet peeve.
I think it's up to Tao to determine wether his issues with me, which he ASKED ME to expose, are through,
but I don't think the relevance of Active Listening to a thread about defining oneself is even a question.
What do you fail to see or understand about that?
quote:
Actually, it is in the section that I Moderate and as such, it is within my jurisdiction.
You do realize how much of what defines yourself you associate to "being a sheriff of moderation"?
You do realize that this is a beautiful counter example of what should define yourself - it's not yourself, not your acts,
but your PERCEIVED ROLE that you're mixing with your identitiy here?
AND you do realize that right here, and right now, you're avoiding replying directly to me on PURPOSE?
it is WebShaman's role to moderate the threads around here. He's been appointed, and deemed responsible, to do that by the Doc. If you have a problem with that, please refer to the Doc.
posted 03-07-2008 00:11
Taobaybee
