From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-16-2009 11:44
You do not seem to understand Tao - people like Jade are the main REASON that equal rights are being denied to Homosexuals (among others).
It is this sort of fanatical, unreasoning belief that chokes and kills a reasoning society - for people like Jade want EVERYONE to think and believe as they do. And if they do not, then they need to be made to, "for their own good", of course.
A reasoning person can see just what this sort of rationalization is capable of producing - pogroms of hate, murder, justified in the name of their belief, just about anything. And they will not feel guilty about it, or in the wrong. These types of individuals abuse and twist the tenants of their faith to justify their actions. They are like parasites that drag down those who truly believe and follow the tenants of a belief who do not try to force their beliefs on others. They give true believers a bad name.
Jade is intolerant and fanatical, and is abusing her religion to support her position and actions. Her religion preaches love and understanding, tolerance, but Jade is not interested in that, as one can plainly see. If one were to judge her according to her own beliefs, she has sinned and I would rather suspect that she has placed her immortal soul in jeopardy, according to the tenants of the religion she follows. She should seek guidance and atonement from her god. Not that she ever will, nor will she recognize or realize just how badly she has crossed and abused the tenants of her own faith and belief. She believes that she has a mandate from her god to persecute and trample on the rights of others, and she has expressed her desire to go from word into deed (if indeed she has not already done so). She has served as judge, jury, and would probably serve as executioner as well.
This is not about anything to do really with her religion - it is about hate, it is about fear, it is about intolerance.
It is what the human race has been fighting all along, what Equal Rights opposes. These types of people do not WANT others to be equal, if they believe and behave differently than they do. And they will abuse and misuse anything to support their stance, their mindset, tricking and twisting even their own selves into believing that only they are on the side of righteousness.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I used to live next to a lesbian couple. They were a lot of fun to hang out with. Just plain fun people. Had a little Halloween party with them and it was an absolutel blast.
What affect did it have on my life? Well, they have a son from a previous. I babysat and earned some money. Thanks to some lesbians, I had some extra cash. I used that money to buy fruit so the kids would have healthy snacks after school.
He was a really goofy kid. He was Girlie #1's best friend while they were around. He taught her how to take a fall, and she taught him how to dress a Barbie.
Good times.
Did they have an affect on society as a whole? Where they dragging others down? Certaintly not. Plenty of heterosexuals having kids all over the place. They had their own little niche and the world kept on turning.
tsk... tsk...no..english is my first language...thought you had better insight DL...In fact..I can speak english, fluent spanish, some french and latin...How many languages can you speak DL? OR can you only communicate in one language?
I must admit I am a bad speller...but I am sure my point gets accross.
This is not about anything to do really with her religion - it is about hate, it is about fear, it is about intolerance.
When all else fails...Webshaman uses the "hate card, the fear card and the intolerance card". I was waiting for those exact words to come from his post as he doesn't dissapoint. He believes its quite effective, but posters really know..I am not a hater...I am lover....so this/his view doesn't really doesn't penetrate....All Christians don't hate...they love...its just that those that hate Christ think that those who do love Christ don't know what they are talking about. This view they have of Christians, qualifes them to speak a notch above them since they, the athiest feel they are esteemed in intelligence, hoovering over us, the lost and misguided God loving feeble minded. Regardless,....... we all believe the opposite, that they who oppose Christ are the ones who are really blinded by the disgrace and defilement in homosexuality upon the nature of God. Its rampant unholy animalistic nature with no thought to perserve the soul. It serves no purpose but to lie ..and many of you are hooked on the lie but you were all easy targets.
The master of lies fished you in easy and didn't even have to throw the bait far. You were swimming in shallow water.
Oh dear... Just as I hoped there might be a possibillity for understanding and the "lost soul" card is played...
*/ I'm a ginio.....genios......genu......smart person! /*
{cell 260} I have no site due to no free time.
-{ Sleep: A common physical disorder that manifests itself as the level of blood in the caffeine circulation exeeds 20% }-
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-17-2009 21:25
Well, let me see...I speak fluent English, German, some French, Italian and Spanish.
So what, Jade?
And no, I certainly didn't play "any" cards, certainly not the hate one.
You did.
You know it, too. You see, your bible, your god has instructed you not to judge others, lest you yourself be judged (which you are being judged, and found wanting, I might add, by your own god, according to the tenants of your faith).
In other words, you are supposed to live your life according to the tenants of your faith. That is it. Nothing else.
Your god passes judgement on others, not you. Since you have abandoned that, you have moved away from your god.
And you know that, as well.
It does not say in the bible anywhere that you are supposed to go out and persecute those who do not believe in your faith. It does not say that you are supposed to persecute Homosexuals, either. These are things that YOU have misunderstood, purposely, in order for you to give your fear vent, which leads to intolerance (as you have already demonstrated) and ultimately hate (which you are also starting to demonstrate, by actively persecuting those you fear and are intolerant towards).
Since you say you "love" (which actually is the basis from the tenants of your faith), that means that you must support Equal Rights. Because that is the best way to show your love, you know. It is not your duty nor your place to try to do anything about anyone else's soul. That is the providence of your god to be the judge of.
If you truly love Homosexuals, I would expect you to be the first in line, screaming your support for their Equal Rights under the law. You realize that words mean nothing when compared with actions. And your actions belay your profession of love, entirely.
But of course, that will also not register with you, for you are one of the "lost souls" already, Jade. You have turned your face from your god, embraced fear, intolerance, and hatred. You have fallen to that which the tenants of your faith say is the providence of Satan.
Poor, lost Jade. May your god have pity on your soul.
You see, if you were truly a follower of Christ, then you would forgive Homosexuals of their sins, at the same time supporting their struggle for Equal Rights, for it is a good and just struggle. Overcoming persecution and suffering is something that most Christians are at least aware of in the history of that religion. You see, your god does not really interest itself in the laws of mankind, right? The only things that matter is that one tries to live according to the tenants of the faith and the judgement that will follow. Unfortunately, you have failed to realize this, blinded as you are by your fear, intolerance and hatred.
I understand very well the tenants of the Christian faith, Jade. For I was a Christian for a long time. I daresay that even now, I am a better Christian than you are. I am not blinded by fear, intolerance, nor hatred. I do not seek to persecute or bring suffering on others, as you do. I do not seek to make others believe as I do, nor do I demand that. I live my life according to the tenants of my personal beliefs and my actions back up my words!
You are but a pale shadow of that.
Fear. Full of fear you are.
Intolerance, bred from the fear.
Hatred, because you fear that which you should not, and it prevents you from
truly following the tenants of your faith and it eats at you, consumes you, and needs an outlet. If it was not Homosexuals, then it would be something else. Ah, yes, Abortion! Of couse! And if not that, then again something else, always, it is something else. Never look inwards at the source, oh no, always push it outwards, onto something else.
You are truly the one lost here. I would suggest spiritual counseling and guidance.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
I am only fluent in english. But being able to communicate in one language seems much better than not being able to communicate in several...
I guess I come acaross in different ways to different posters..
Other formus I am involved in dont perpetually give me this info...they all like me and look for me......Plus, from what I hear,,others think your .........well......you know.......
Its a mattter of opinion on what spews from that head of yours DL and Webshaman too for that matter...I see no growth in you since I have incepted on this forum..Your not progressing.. still immersed in still waters....like being stuck in the mud...what an interesting lives you must have..... just the same old rant...."that your smarter than most".....or "your not directly anserwing my quesions,..therefore your wrong"...(yawns)...Are there no posters out there that can bring some life to this forum like in the old days???.....new baby posters???
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-18-2009 00:21
quote: jade said:
I am only fluent in english. But being able to communicate in one language seems much better than not being able to communicate in several...I guess I come acaross in different ways to different posters..Other formus I am involved in dont perpetually give me this info...they all like me and look for me......Plus, from what I hear,,others think your .........well......you know.......Its a mattter of opinion on what spews from that head of yours DL and Webshaman too for that matter...I see no growth in you since I have incepted on this forum..Your not progressing.. still immersed in still waters....like being stuck in the mud...what an interesting lives you must have..... just the same old rant...."that your smarter than most".....or "your not directly anserwing my quesions,..therefore your wrong"...(yawns)...Are there no posters out there that can bring some life to this forum like in the old days???.....new baby posters???(Edited by jade on 08-17-2009 23:52)
Does this babble have a point?
And what, for the life of me, does some other forums have to do with this one?
As for the feedback that you receive from other forums, I cannot respond to (nor do I wish to).
I can say that the feedback that you are getting here is about the soundest that I have ever witnessed. Of course, you don't wish to see it like that, or you would have to admit error, and would have to reconciliate your position, and actually learn something.
You know, change?
Expand your mind, horizons, that sort of thing?
We have all been patiently waiting for you, you know.
Others have gone through this before - like Ramasax, for example. Or Gideon (though not so sure what he changed into is something better, but at least it is not a Young Earther mentality anymore).
It is pretty interesting that you seem to be unable (and unwilling, for that matter) to recognize your failings and attempt to do something about them. Many here (including myself) have had their selves held up for self inspection, and have not always liked what they have been shown. Some bit the bullet and recognized the great value of this, and responded to it positively. Others less so.
Some, like you, have not only ignored it, but have even gone so far as to turn combative and vindictive against those who have patiently been helping, all along.
Why do you think you always get into fights with members on this board? Think about it.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Jade, I do believe that you feel you are "right" in your belief and the way you have chosen to live your life. I even have an understanding, as to why you believe you should encourage, as much as possible; those who do not, and help in what ever way you can to enable them to "see the light".
It is not my intention, and I have no wish, to mock your religion or your belief system, please understand this. One of the reasons I criticised your post earlier is because I believe if a person wants to "spread the word" then they owe it to their God to take the time to spell those words correctly.
In taking the time, one will also consider the truth of what is being said.
First take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
One of the most important things my years of searching and study have taught me, and, believe me, I have been searching and studying since I joined a monastery at the age of eleven some forty-three years ago, is to use those talents I have been given, to the best of my ability.
I have been given a critical and enquiring mind and I will not accept, just on the say so of some dusty old books, written by frail humans, retelling events, according to them, of how I have been instructed to live my life. Rather, I will take the more difficult path of using what intelligence I have been given to try to discern the truth for myself, and, in my own way, pray to the Great Spirit that my aim may be true.
quote:Its a mattter of opinion on what spews from that head of yours DL and Webshaman too for that matter...I see no growth in you since I have incepted on this forum..Your not progressing.. still immersed in still waters....like being stuck in the mud...
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-18-2009 15:09
More like
Define: "Frustration"
"I have been trying to change your minds and beliefs and you have resisted my efforts entirely and I am fed up and frustrated. You are supposed to be true believers in Christ by now and be thanking me for my efforts to save your soul."
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:I have been given a critical and enquiring mind and I will not accept, just on the say so of some dusty old books, written by frail humans, retelling events, according to them, of how I have been instructed to live my life. Rather, I will take the more difficult path of using what intelligence I have been given to try to discern the truth for myself, and, in my own way, pray to the Great Spirit that my aim may be true.
Yes...only posting..what I know to be true for me...only sharing....so those that want to hear will hear and those that reject my views...reject the one that sends me. I don't sent myself. I am directed...Tao follows his own direction/course...good for you. I am the designer of my own destiny..I pick, I choose.....I choose Christ. You can attack me verbally, saying I am ignorant, hateful, stuipd, bad at grammar...out of touch..This is irrevelant to me...
Times are changing, people's ideals are changing...the way of the world is changing, but one thing about God for us is that he is the same from the beginning and will be the same at the end of our time. We are time travelers living in such a small amount of time in history. 100 year span some of us? This is minute compared to what was in history and what is to come in the future..Why do we think we have the supreme intelligence to go beyond what we are incapable of understaning in our life span? We are no more than a microscopic dot in history. In the next hundred years...many of the ideologies of today..will be erased in history.
I belong to a huge family of Christian believers that has been around for centuries that I have promised to defend, help and be true to. I am proud to be apart of this family. I will remain true to this family till death and give it every inch of my heart. Though this family is attacked from every front, it retains an everlasting beauty that I cannot believe possible sometimes.
Yeah - ideas change and history moves on... which is why we're not still burning women/children at the stake for being outspoken, unmarried adulterers, or unruly - though other faiths still stone their women to death for the crime of having been raped.
Which is why, in time, the whole debate over homosexuals will seem just as it is; a hangover from the oppressive and hateful grip of religion on society. Enlightened humans have no qualms about allowing other people the right to happiness and liberty, and I truly hope that they inherit the future, because ignorance surely must end.
The everlasting beauty of hate, murder, corruption, protection of child rapists, support of Nationalist Socialism, oppression of women, suppression of knowledge and scientific endeavour and bullying of free minds... that is something that chills me to the core.
You believe in the Lord's infallibility. We couldn't care less.
But then we get to your moral beliefs. And that's where the problems begin.
You believe that it is right to patronize, insult, and condemn those whose beliefs differ from your own. You hide under your religion, dragging it through the mud, mangling its teachings and morphing its sanctions to suit your own bigotry. You take the word of your Lord and you twist and break it, adapting it to your disgust and your damaged morals. You cower behind your God, using Him as a shield, a position of safety from which you can launch your assault on equality and humanity.
You believe that a thin veil of false sincerity and kindness can hide your malice and loathing. Maybe you can hide your darker side from yourself, but others can see it clearly, see it clearly and know that you are not as good a person as you think you are. Your words, your "beliefs", are nothing more than denial, your denial of your own true nature. You're a paradox, talking about "helping" those who have "sinned", but at the same time condemning them as filthy, subhuman, animalistic heretics!
You believe that the human mind has no worth, and that rather than using their own intelligence and logic, people should blindly accept ancient words as infallible truths. Indeed, you have condemned intellectual and moral self-determination -- that is, you loathe those who use their minds to determine their morals. The ironic thing is that if there is a God, then the mind is a God-given gift, and yet you damn it, blame it, suppress it with dubious rhetoric and an ersatz spiritual philantrophy.
And your "huge family of Christian believers", that you "have promied to defend"? What are you defending them from? Logic? Reason? Intelligence? Morality? Are these "crimes" dangerous to you? Do you fear us heretics? Or are you just trying to gain sympathy by pretending that everyone is out to get you? Are you deluded or manipulative?
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-19-2009 15:11
quote: DavidJCobb said:
We do not attack you for your religious beliefs.You believe in God. We couldn't care less.You believe in the Bible. We couldn't care less.You believe in the Lord's infallibility. We couldn't care less.But then we get to your moral beliefs. And that's where the problems begin.You believe that it is right to patronize, insult, and condemn those whose beliefs differ from your own. You hide under your religion, dragging it through the mud, mangling its teachings and morphing its sanctions to suit your own bigotry. You take the word of your Lord and you twist and break it, adapting it to your disgust and your damaged morals. You cower behind your God, using Him as a shield, a position of safety from which you can launch your assault on equality and humanity.You believe that a thin veil of false sincerity and kindness can hide your malice and loathing. Maybe you can hide your darker side from yourself, but others can see it clearly, see it clearly and know that you are not as good a person as you think you are. Your words, your "beliefs", are nothing more than denial, your denial of your own true nature. You're a paradox, talking about "helping" those who have "sinned", but at the same time condemning them as filthy, subhuman, animalistic heretics!You believe that the human mind has no worth, and that rather than using their own intelligence and logic, people should blindly accept ancient words as infallible truths. Indeed, you have condemned intellectual and moral self-determination -- that is, you loathe those who use their minds to determine their morals. The ironic thing is that if there is a God, then the mind is a God-given gift, and yet you damn it, blame it, suppress it with dubious rhetoric and an ersatz spiritual philantrophy.And your "huge family of Christian believers", that you "have promied to defend"? What are you defending them from? Logic? Reason? Intelligence? Morality? Are these "crimes" dangerous to you? Do you fear us heretics? Or are you just trying to gain sympathy by pretending that everyone is out to get you? Are you deluded or manipulative?----------------------
QFT!
The sad part is that Jade will never realize this in her. She will just consider this another "attack" on her person, beliefs, etc.
That pointed out, it needed saying. She needs to at least be made aware of her failings - even if she does not accept them. For then she has no excuses for her behavior. She will never be able to say "no-one told me!" because she was informed here, at the Ozone Asylum.
Jade, I hope you do decide to take the tenants of your faith seriously, and atone for your sins. Though I do not believe in the tenants of your faith, I can still hold you accountable to them, since you profess to believe in them (and you pontificate on how important and precious your belief is to you).
You see, you have every right to
quote:I belong to a huge family of Christian believers that has been around for centuries that I have promised to defend, help and be true to. I am proud to be apart of this family. I will remain true to this family till death and give it every inch of my heart.
And nobody here is trying to deny you of this - on the contrary, everyone here that I am aware of accepts this of you. Many here may not agree with what you believe, but I do not think that any here are opposed to you being able to believe what you wish to.
The main problem is that you attempt to force your beliefs on others. That crosses a very deciding line between personal belief, and becoming an active extremist who is willing to do anything and justify it in the name of god.
The tenants of your faith (handed down from your god, according to the beliefs that you follow) is against just this. It is against hatred, persecution, loathing, and condemning. "Love thy neighbor" and all that. So why are you going against this? Why are you going against the tenants of your faith? Why do you insist on persecuting others in the name of your god?
Can't you see just how wrong you are?
Let me give you an example, coming from the Catholic Church. Way back when, the Catholic Church determined that my folk did not have souls. Therefore, it was acceptable to erradicate them, for they were no better than animals. This was done and sanctioned by the Catholic Church. It took over a hundred years for the Catholic Church to recant it's false ways (when it was finally decided that the American Natives did indeed have souls). Of course, that was much to late for the untold millions who were put to death.
Well, you are doing the same thing here - you are condeming Homosexuals. Worse, you support their continued persecution as if such were a mandate from your religion, from your god.
Obviously you do not know enough of the book that you purport to cherish. I suggest you bone up on some of the more important parts...starting with "love thy neighbor".
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:Let me give you an example, coming from the Catholic Church. Way back when, the Catholic Church determined that my folk did not have souls. Therefore, it was acceptable to erradicate them, for they were no better than animals. This was done and sanctioned by the Catholic Church. It took over a hundred years for the Catholic Church to recant it's false ways (when it was finally decided that the American Natives did indeed have souls). Of course, that was much to late for the untold millions who were put to death.
who is your folk...???
you need to get over it ..were you personally eradicated???..just let go..I don't cry about it still, when long ago the Texas army in the name of the republic slaughtered off my Mexican ancestors years ago to take their land. Stole our wineries in California too....Are you the kind of person that holds a grudge and stays mad...your telling on yourself....you make up anything just to be right...Are you mad at the US goverment too for stealing your ancestor's land ages ago??? Do you want it back??? Stop going back into history to pull old stories to make your case.....People do bad in the name of religion all the time....for their purpose. It does not mean God sanctioned it..Gosh..I thought you were bright enough to figure that out.
you may be able to soften when you unharden your heart...Always blaming religions for everything that went wrong or goes bad in the world. How sad.
who is your folk...???you need to get over it ..were you personally eradicated???..just let go..I don't cry about it still, when long ago the Texas army in the name of the republic slaughtered off my Mexican ancestors years ago to take their land. Stole our wineries in California too....Are you the kind of person that holds a grudge and stays mad...your telling on yourself....you make up anything just to be right...Are you mad at the US goverment too for stealing your ancestor's land ages ago??? Do you want it back??? Stop going back into history to pull old stories to make your case.....People do bad in the name of religion all the time....for their purpose. It does not mean God sanctioned it..Gosh..I thought you were bright enough to figure that out. you may be able to soften when you unharden your heart...Always blaming religions for everything that went wrong or goes bad in the world. How sad.
You clearly have no idea what an example is. He was demonstrating how a religion can be wrong and can be bigoted. And he did identify "his people" as Native Americans. Lrn2readplz.
So what does God sanction, Jade? Are you the One who knows what is truth and what is not? Are you the second coming, Jade, or do you only trust the word of the current 'god on earth' leader of your faith because he's not the same evil shit who declared an entire race to be soulless, or gave his moral support to the Holocaust, or perhaps sanctioned the deliberate cover-up of paedophilia (paying off parents and quietly moving paedophiles to equally responsible posts elsewhere)? How does the word as you see it tally with the tenets of your faith, and how do you know when they stop being the true word of an infallible God and become the stark-raving lunacy of a fanatical 'bad person'?
How do you transmute the biblical call to murder all homosexuals (or any man that has sex with a woman the wrong way round, apparently) to simply denying them their human rights?
Think about it for a moment. As a true Catholic, I do hope you've only ever had sex for the purpose of procreation with your husband, and in the one and only agreeable position for such an act, because according to the very same rantings that declare God's abhorrence for homosexuality, you are otherwise likewise condemned and categorised as unfit for life. Your fate, however one wishes to interpret the words, must be the same fate that your belief system demands for homosexuals if you have ever so much as enjoyed the act of sex inappropriately.
Or is that a 'people who do bad in the name of religion' perspective on it? Does your interpretation differ enough that the 'good people' agree you're right in condemning homosexuality while perhaps enjoying the odd knee-trembler or doggy-style romp with relative impunity..?
...of course, none of my argument has the intended impact if you're such a devout Catholic that you are either interred within the mental ward that is a Catholic Nunnery, are a faithful virgin yet to marry, or have been a terribly unfulfilled/unfulfilling bed partner to your husband. In any or all of these cases, no argument could possibly suffice where a sad sigh and sympathetic shake of the head would be most appropriate.
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-20-2009 15:10
quote: jade said:
quote:Let me give you an example, coming from the Catholic Church. Way back when, the Catholic Church determined that my folk did not have souls. Therefore, it was acceptable to erradicate them, for they were no better than animals. This was done and sanctioned by the Catholic Church. It took over a hundred years for the Catholic Church to recant it's false ways (when it was finally decided that the American Natives did indeed have souls). Of course, that was much to late for the untold millions who were put to death.who is your folk...???you need to get over it ..were you personally eradicated???..just let go..I don't cry about it still, when long ago the Texas army in the name of the republic slaughtered off my Mexican ancestors years ago to take their land. Stole our wineries in California too....Are you the kind of person that holds a grudge and stays mad...your telling on yourself....you make up anything just to be right...Are you mad at the US goverment too for stealing your ancestor's land ages ago??? Do you want it back??? Stop going back into history to pull old stories to make your case.....People do bad in the name of religion all the time....for their purpose. It does not mean God sanctioned it..Gosh..I thought you were bright enough to figure that out. you may be able to soften when you unharden your heart...Always blaming religions for everything that went wrong or goes bad in the world. How sad.
Comprehension lessons are in order here. Please enroll in a class.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:of course, none of my argument has the intended impact if you're such a devout Catholic that you are either interred within the mental ward that is a Catholic Nunnery, are a faithful virgin yet to marry, or have been a terribly unfulfilled/unfulfilling bed partner to your husband. In any or all of these cases, no argument could possibly suffice where a sad sigh and sympathetic shake of the head would be most appropriate.
my goodness...what prejudice..because you feel and believe women who are devoted to the cause of Christianity cannot have a fulfilling sex life as a wife in every sense and cannot please their husbands... your telling on your self again....and I don't see a pretty picture...seems you feel...women are for sex objects..to satisfy the male flesh. And if they have their head and heart immersed in God..they are worthless to themselves and men.. Or of what good are they. Seems you serve the flesh only...and its no wonder... that is why you are a homosexual lifestyle cheerleader. Its a given. In light of our Christian faith the loving nature of two individuals of the opposite sex coming together for the procreation of chidlren is more meaningful in regard to our God given nature. than the animalistic nature of the same sex coming together. But....since you don't believe in God...you can't go there heartwise or brainwise...so I don't expect you to see where sight is not given.
You know there are men out there, who love God they way I do and think faithful women like me are like fine pearls. There are men out there who do not worship the flesh like you do. They worship God and when they do, they know the real essence of what is feels like to be true male in God sense. And play out that role in every day life.
If you think I have a mental disorder when you say I belong in a mental ward...then I must be one with the comaradrie of billions out here that think like me...especially in California...who voted against gay marriage. Do most of the poplulation in Califorana belong in a mental ward? See how ridicilous your thought sounds? And where do you belong? Its something how the view on one topic of life in regard to sex ..sets someone apart from the real word in just one cause sending them to the crazy house.
my goodness...what prejudice..because you feel and believe women who are devoted to the cause of Christianity cannot have a fulfilling sex life as a wife in every sense and cannot please their husbands...
Actually, he's saying that Christian/Catholic beliefs put numerous restrictions on sex. If you don't practice these restrictions, you're just as bad as you think your religion thinks gays are.
quote: jade also said:
your telling on your self again....and I don't see a pretty picture...seems you feel...women are for sex objects..to satisfy the male flesh. And if they have their head and heart immersed in God..they are worthless to themselves and men.. Or of what good are they.
You have serious issues when it comes to actually understanding what people are saying to you.
quote: jade also said:
Seems you serve the flesh only...and its no wonder... that is why you are a homosexual lifestyle cheerleader. Its a given. In light of our Christian faith the loving nature of two individuals of the opposite sex coming together for the procreation of chidlren is more meaningful in regard to our God given nature. than the animalistic nature of the same sex coming together.
I forget... Why is it animalistic? Please do explain to me how it is completely and totally impossible for two people of the same sex to love each other. Please also explain how people that are gay but have never had sex are still "giving in to an animalistic and lustful nature".
quote: jade also said:
But....since you don't believe in God...you can't go there heartwise or brainwise...so I don't expect you to see where sight is not given.You know there are men out there, who love God they way I do and think faithful women like me are like fine pearls. There are men out there who do not worship the flesh like you do.
I can't speak for others, but I don't worship the flesh, I worship the mind. I don't expect you to understand how such a thing is possible.
quote: jade also said:
They worship God and when they do, they know the real essence of what is feels like to be true male in God sense. And play out that role in every day life.
"True male"? How is that relevant to anything? And what is a "true male"? Are you saying that people who don't believe in your god are less masculine? Less human? Are you saying that those who do not believe as you do are animals?
quote: jade also failed:
If you think I have a mental disorder when you say I belong in a mental ward...then I must be one with the comaradrie of billions out here that think like me...
We don't think you need to go to a mental ward for your beliefs. Your inability to understand what others say, and your inability to think rationally, on the other hand...
quote: *grabs popcorn*:
especially in California...who voted against gay marriage. Do most of the poplulation in Califorana belong in a mental ward?
Nope. But roughly half of them are bigoted, prejudiced, and likely quite unpleasant to be around. It was not a significant majority that voted against gay marriage -- it was just barely banned. Do you feel proud for denying loving couples the right to get married? The right to have their love formally recognized? Or have you just deluded yourself into thinking that love is only possible between two people of the opposite sex? Anyone with rationality would understand that love, being a biological mechanism, is prone to the biological equivalent of "glitches"*, which could result in, say, someone loving a person of the same sex.
quote: More epic failure:
See how ridicilous your thought sounds? And where do you belong? Its something how the view on one topic of life in regard to sex ..sets someone apart from the real word in just one cause sending them to the crazy house.
I don't see how ridiculous his thought sounds because that's not what his thought was. Lrn2read.
-----
* I'm not saying that gays are "broken" or malfunctioning... Hell, I have mental abnormalities of my own. But technically speaking, homosexuality is a "glitch", though that is certainly not a valid reason to ban it, be outraged at it, or deny homosexuals their rights.
quote:The main problem is that you attempt to force your beliefs on others. That crosses a very deciding line between personal belief, and becoming an active extremist who is willing to do anything and justify it in the name of god.
No. just posting..not harming..how am I an extemist.? I am not blowing up buildings or killing. I am using innocent fingers to type. I think you have irrationalized this. Are you OK?? I have been on this forum for about 6 years ....have I forced you to do anything. Christians just tell, witness and pray...
quote:The sad part is that Jade will never realize this in her. She will just consider this another "attack" on her person, beliefs, etc.
Not really.
quote:That pointed out, it needed saying. She needs to at least be made aware of her failings - even if she does not accept them. For then she has no excuses for her behavior. She will never be able to say "no-one told me!" because she was informed here, at the Ozone Asylum.
?????? Who will? excuse me...I don' t get it. Who am I suppose to make excuses to???
My God would not like two men/women of the same sex loving each other in the biblical sense.
So it must be the deity you cater to.
quote:Jade, I hope you do decide to take the tenants of your faith seriously, and atone for your sins. Though I do not believe in the tenants of your faith, I can still hold you accountable to them, since you profess to believe in them (and you pontificate on how important and precious your belief is to you).
quote:And nobody here is trying to deny you of this - on the contrary, everyone here that I am aware of accepts this of you. Many here may not agree with what you believe, but I do not think that any here are opposed to you being able to believe what you wish to.
This is not true...99.5% oppose what I stand for. Loook in the mirror...werent' you the one who called me ignorant, cruel, hateful..
quote:Can't you see just how wrong you are?
No...I am right.
quote:Well, you are doing the same thing here - you are condeming Homosexuals. Worse, you support their continued persecution as if such were a mandate from your religion, from your god.
Your putting words aligned to me but are not mine. "Who is comdeming. Not agreeing and condemning are way different regarding how I feel. I think its wrong..so what...you don't agree..that is not new news...
quote:Obviously you do not know enough of the book that you purport to cherish. I suggest you bone up on some of the more important parts...starting with "love thy neighbor".
I am exactly loving my neigbors..by letting them know what they are doing is offending God...What you see as love and what I see as love are very different...We disagree on what love mean evidently. I am bound by faith do to what I have to...even if you don't like it or see it.
quote:forget... Why is it animalistic? Please do explain to me how it is completely and totally impossible for two people of the same sex to love each other. Please also explain how people that are gay but have never had sex are still "giving in to an animalistic and lustful nature".
In many studies about man, we read man is a rational animal.. and what sets him apart from the irrational animal nature in him is his ability to reason on things. In regarding the sexual nature of man...when he attempts to act upon his sexual desires without the moral consequenses he equates himself "animal"...like having sex with someone for the pure pleasure/desire to fulfill the need they think that have to give into. They are acting like the animial down the steet that meets another animal for sex on the corner. If these two animals never see each other again...its no big deal...they just used each other for gratification. They use this gift of nature for selfish reasons. No love is involved. Are you the one who has sex online with strangers via photos, etc???? Its the same concept. You use each others bodies for sexual gratification. Whats different from you and the animal that does not care.. Now.. in the confusion of the sexaul gratification one achieves with the same sex...the mind begans to think is this lust or love? I think its love...so I want to stay with this person and make a happy home.. We as Christians believe, the pleasures of the skin can be anyones ruin, here on this earth and into eternity.
For your information, in Christianity there are no restrictions ..unless one feels restricted. The 10 commandments can be seen as rules or restrictions to some, but to others they are ways of loving God. They are about love. Those who are prisoners of the flesh, would see them as restrictions.
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-21-2009 14:43
quote:No. just posting..not harming..how am I an extemist.? I am not blowing up buildings or killing. I am using innocent fingers to type. I think you have irrationalized this. Are you OK?? I have been on this forum for about 6 years ....have I forced you to do anything. Christians just tell, witness and pray...
Except that this is a lie, and you know it. You actively support measures that persecute Homsexuals, for example. You actively support measures against Abortion. Etc, etc, etc.
quote:quote:And nobody here is trying to deny you of this - on the contrary, everyone here that I am aware of accepts this of you. Many here may not agree with what you believe, but I do not think that any here are opposed to you being able to believe what you wish to.
This is not true...99.5% oppose what I stand for. Loook in the mirror...werent' you the one who called me ignorant, cruel, hateful..
Regardless of whether or not someone holds you accountable for your words, noone here has been opposed to you being able to believe whatever it is you wish to. It is when you force your beliefs (or attempt to) on others that they object, Jade. Or when you blurt out things that make no sense. Don't be surprised when someone points out your mistakes.
What I may (or may not) think of your behavior is irrelevant to the point - I am not trying to force my beliefs on you. I am expressing my opinions (and some that are actually factual, based on your rhetoric) towards your rhetoric.
You do understand the difference here, right? I mean, most people would.
Again, reading comprehension skills are in order here. Though I know that you can read quite well - this is trolling behavior from you. You have demonstrated this type of behavior before, in the past - purposely "misunderstanding" stuff, so that you would have inane "excuses" to post your rubbish answers in reply (because you do not really have any real answers). You have even admitted to doing so.
quote:quote:Well, you are doing the same thing here - you are condeming Homosexuals. Worse, you support their continued persecution as if such were a mandate from your religion, from your god.
Your putting words aligned to me but are not mine. "Who is comdeming. Not agreeing and condemning are way different regarding how I feel. I think its wrong..so what...you don't agree..that is not new news...
This would be correct, except that you are supporting persecuting others, which is not just disagreement here. By persecuting others, you are condemning them and you are willing to deny them equal rights in the process.
quote:I am exactly loving my neigbors..by letting them know what they are doing is offending God...What you see as love and what I see as love are very different...We disagree on what love mean evidently. I am bound by faith do to what I have to...even if you don't like it or see it.
It is not your place to "inform" (ha, what a joke! You are not informing them, you are CONDEMNING them!) others of what you believe is offensive to your god. It is not your responsibility. In fact, you are INTRUDING upon the freedoms of others by doing this. The tenants of your religion are very adamant about this sort of stuff here. It is soley the place of your god to pass judgement, not yours Jade. Since you have sinned (and you do not even realize that you are breaking one of the core tenants of your faith), I would suggest you seek spiritual counciling.
You are not loving anyone but you and yourself. You are guilty of the "I am better than thou" sin here. You are soley and alone responsible only for yourself. The tenants of your faith are directed directly at you, and do not include others here. It is you, and you alone, that are supposed to follow them! It is not your responsibility to make sure that others are doing the same, and it is not your responsibility or place to try to make them knowledgable of this, unless this is requested of you by them, themselves.
You are basically doing this in order to make yourself feel better. You put yourself in a higher position, by making sure others are aware of how "good" you are, how faithful, how perfectly in tune with the tenants of your faith at the same time putting others down that are not. In doing so, you expose what you truly are - a hateful, spiteful, person with low self confidence. That is not love, Jade. If you truly loved your neighbors, you would accept them as they are, love them for who and what they are, and pray privately for them. You would help them out when they needed help (asked for it), but that is where it ends. And you would stop persecuting them and grant them graciously the same rights that you enjoy, for one who truly loves wishes such for those they love.
If you think it is love trying to help others that do not want your help, then keep in mind that this is what "trying to force your beliefs on others" means. It means that you are trying to help others who do not wish or want your help. You are in fact not helping at all, but making things worse. This is why the tenants of your faith can only apply to yourself, should only be important in relation to yourself, and no other.
It is supposed to be a personal relationship with christ and god, not a witch hunt, not an inquisition, Jade. Only you, and christ and god. All the others, they are responsible for themselves and their own actions, and according to your faith, your god will pass judgement over them. And only your god is empowered to do this. You are not, according to the tenants of your faith.
In doing so, you sin.
It is actually kind of interesting how it is possible for me to hold you accountable to the tenants of the faith that you follow, and I am exempt from them (because I do not follow them or believe in them). Normally, one that follows tenants of a faith would be grateful for the help, eh? Oh wait...that is not very loving, is it? It doesn't feel very nice, does it?
Perhaps you might want to think on that.
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
quote:In doing so, you expose what you truly are - a hateful, spiteful, person with low self confidence. That is not love, Jade. If you truly loved your neighbors, you would accept them as they are, love them for who and what they are, and pray privately for them. You would help them out when they needed help (asked for it), but that is where it ends. And you would stop persecuting them and grant them graciously the same rights that you enjoy, for one who truly loves wishes such for those they love.
How have I persecuted homosexuals?? ...All I do is pray...I do accept homosexuals as persons, friends and I do love them for who they are..Their sexual preference is a small part of their whole person..Just because one chooses to go against their natural biologcial nature does not make them bad persons. You know,..your not getting it..or getting where I am really coming from...Your hatred for my way of life or thinking has prejudiced/blinded you to what I really am....which is confused nonsense. How you picture me is so far from the truth. Your liberalism has spewed hatred and is going to be your undoing In your view of religious persons, you think they are your enemy.
I know two persons who are drug addicts... On bad case and one controled...they are doing terrible things to their bodies...One of them now is even thinking of using her body to buy cocaine. She said this in jest...but she may do it. Do I disown her because of the bad choices she is making. This is when she needs me the most. I can't make her stop...ultimately she is going to do what she wants. It will be their ruin if they continue. All I can do is tell them and pray...which is what in do in regard to the homosexuals. They don't hate me like you all do.. They are weak in mind and spirit. See..where you see hate..I see love.
From: The Happy Hunting Grounds... Insane since: Mar 2001
posted 08-21-2009 16:30
How have you persecuted homosexuals?
You support denying them equal rights, the same rights that you have!
If you truly loved them, if you truly were not persecuting them, then you would not stand in the way of their struggle to achieve equal rights.
That much should be obvious to you.
quote:Your hatred for my way of life or thinking has prejudiced/blinded you to what I really am....which is confused nonsense. How you picture me is so far from the truth.
I do not hate your way of life, nor do I hate your way of thinking (whatever that might be or mean). I could care less how you personally choose to live your own live, or think your own thoughts. I only oppose you when you try to force your beliefs on others, and I oppose anyone who is so.
Though I will agree with you that you really are confused nonsense, as you say.
I do not picture you. I read the words that you type and hold them up for your inspection. That you do not like what you see in the mirror, comes as no surprise to me. That you do not wish to accept what you see, also comes as no surprise to me. I think you do not understand or realize how and what you are communicating to others.
We have repeatedly shown you, you know. You just refuse to grasp this.
quote:Your liberalism has spewed hatred and is going to be your undoing In your view of religious persons, you think they are your enemy.
My...liberalism?! Well, perhaps I do contain some liberalism in me. It has been a long time. I am normally pretty conservative, but occasionally I do wander among liberal lines. Call me a moderate conservative
I do not think that religious individuals are my enemy, at least not as a whole. Certainly there are individuals among the religious that have been my enemy in the past, and I am sure there will be some in the future. Perhaps there are even a few currently, I do not honestly know. I do know that organized religion is the enemy of all, however, who does not believe or act as they would wish. This does not mean that individuals of that religion are my enemy.
I do not consider Bugs to be my enemy, nor Master Suho, for example. I do not consider Tao to be my enemy either. Nor the vast amount of other, religious individuals that I may have had contact with.
quote:I know two persons who are drug addicts... On bad case and one controled...they are doing terrible things to their bodies...One of them now is even thinking of using her body to buy cocaine. She said this in jest...but she may do it. Do I disown her because of the bad choices she is making. This is when she needs me the most. I can't make her stop...ultimately she is going to do what she wants. It will be their ruin if they continue. All I can do is tell them and pray...which is what in do in regard to the homosexuals. They don't hate me like you all do.. They are weak in mind and spirit. See..where you see hate..I see love.
All you can do is privately pray for them, and aid them if they seek your aid.
It is not your place to "tell them" anything. They are adults and are responsible for their own lives, regardless of how peaceful or hellish it is. If they actively seek your aid (honestly seek your aid, not seeking material wealth to further their habits), then you should help them. But only if asked to do so.
And you sure like to brandy about the "hate" thing, don't you. Well, not on my watch you won't! You do not get a free ride on the "hate" thing, the "poor little Jade, everyone hates me" trip. You are an adult, and you are responsible for your actions and what you post. The reactions to what you post are exactly that - REACTIONS. That means that it is FEEDBACK. Normal people tend to realize this, that they are receiving feedback to what they are doing.
You post what you do to get a reaction out of others - we know this, you have admitted to doing it. So no hiding behind the "they all hate poor little me" wall.
Your book of faith I think has a saying for this "You reap what you sow."
What else did you expect?
WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles
Thanks for making this forum really interesting for me...though you may see me as antonigistic or whatever...you never disappoint.. I wish I could meet you in person one day.. You would be suprised to feel and see how nice I am...I think you have a love hate relationship with me...Deep down I think you really like me...
Thanks for making this forum really interesting for me...though you may see me as antonigistic or whatever...you never disappoint.. I wish I could meet you in person one day.. You would be suprised to feel and see how nice I am...I think you have a love hate relationship with me...Deep down I think you really like me...
I REALLY REALLY REALLY LIKE YOU WEBSHAMAN!!!!!!
Are you two-timing me WebShaman?
Jade you say;
?I want to deny them (homosexuals) the right to go against the grain of what their body is made
for. Lustful disoriented deceit. Big cause of the fall of man.?
I'd like to know what you think gives you the right to decide that! Decide what a persons body is made for.
How can you say ?lustful disoriented deceit. You do not know, cannot know, the mind of another, and as for ?big cause of the fall of man?! Fall from where? To where, and just who do you think you are to decide that man has not only fallen but fallen ?big??
Then you go on to say;
?I believe their body is made for praise.. I cannot make them believe like me, but because they
are in bondage. ....really really big bondage...i want to set them free.?
Isn't that just your belief, body made for praise? What kind of praise? Are you just spouting dogma?
I will resist commentating on ? but because they are in bondage. ....really really big bondage? That would be akin to shooting fish in a barrel..
I can feel a sigh coming on.
Jade I have many, very good friends, who are Roman Catholics (which, I think, is your flavour of belief) That includes a few priests and a Bishop. I only mention this to assure you and others, that I do not hate religious people.
I will say again I am shocked by your arrogant posturing which I find ill conceived and badly delivered.
I'll have to get my old dusty books down and hide behind them, lets see, Bhagavad Gita, Bardo Thodol, Tao Te Ching, Leabhar Cheanannais and The House at Pooh Corner. That should do for starters.
Jade I have many, very good friends, who are Roman Catholics (which, I think, is your flavour of belief) That includes a few priests and a Bishop. I only mention this to assure you and others, that I do not hate religious people.
And, of course, this is generally true of atheists and other non-christians...
One of the many many many huge misconceptions about us evil atheists is that we sit around hating anyone who is religious, and shun them, and - of course - "persecute" them...
The majority of my friends are religious in one way or another, mostly christian, and some rather devoutly so.
I am well aware of their religious beliefs, because the vast majority of religious people make it exceptionally apparent.
On the other hand, many of them do not realize that I am an atheist, because I don't feel the need to shove it in people's faces.
I also tire of the persecution that atheists DO endure by the devoutly religious, and tire of having to explain that I don't eat babies and worship satan...
I am friends with ministers, faith healers, wiccans, buddhists, catholics, jews, people of native american spiritual beliefs (the narraganset, mohegan, and pequot tribes are rather prevalent here), and plenty more.
It's no big deal to us atheists...
until the religious jump all over us and tell us how wrong we are, tell us what are beliefs actually are (?!), tell us we are evil, that we are going to hell...that we shouldn't be allowed to have children, that we are not citizens, etc.
Which they do constantly.
While shouting and crying about how they are being persecuted....?!
Well, DL, when you continue living the way you do and show that a person can be perfectly happy and well balanced without ancient, self-imposed restrictions or constant, perceived help from some invisible force, you're just asking for it.
I thought a few videos I happened upon from YouTube might prove interesting.
I'm not too sure of all the facts in this one it is USA based but it made me smile in parts; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU
Checkmate Atheists Affected me in the same way that Jade and Allewyn have recently, in that I had difficulty trying to decide if they are being serious.
Here in old Blighty I think there is still a collective memory of pre-Christian life, so pagans like myself are generally left to their happy ways. At least that's been the reality for me since the trauma that is school.
posted 08-16-2009 05:47
