Topic awaiting preservation: An expensive cup of tea

You just got to love this - Covert Operations - The billionaire brothers who are waging a war against Obama

I find this part especially interesting

quote:

---

Five hundred people attended the summit, which served, in part, as a training session for Tea Party activists in Texas. An advertisement cast the event as a populist uprising against vested corporate power. ?Today, the voices of average Americans are being drowned out by lobbyists and special interests,? it said. ?But you can do something about it.? The pitch made no mention of its corporate funders. The White House has expressed frustration that such sponsors have largely eluded public notice. David Axelrod, Obama?s senior adviser, said, ?What they don?t say is that, in part, this is a grassroots citizens? movement brought to you by a bunch of oil billionaires.?

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer#ixzz0y057t0Um

---

Now ain't that interesting! Now I understand Mrs. Palin's interest in the Tea Party, and where she got the notion. After all, The Kochs operate oil refineries in Alaska.

We got any Tea Party members here? If so, how do you feel about this?

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

No coincidence their name is cock. (not an Obama endorsement)

I don't see why it matters all that much.

Any time any government goes in any direction it's going to mean big business for *someone* and it's common for corporations or wealthy individuals to lobby on behalf of that which affects them. The Koch brothers are private citizens who share a common interest with millions of people in reducing the size of (U.S.) government.

(Edited by Jestah on 11-10-2010 04:12)

Heh. Come on Jestah. You can't have a "grass roots" movement that is really just a rich man scheme to manipulate the masses. Just call it what it is and be done with it.

And the Koch brothers are ONLY interested in getting a bigger slice of the cake. They have no personal interest in those other "millions", other than using them to help get what they want (and they WILL get what they want, because the Tea Party will let them if they get in).

That is like having the wolves guard the sheep, you know. Pretty soon, some are going to go missing...

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

Come on with with what, WS?

A grass roots movement doesn't suddenly cease being a grass roots movement because wealthy people recognize it could help their own interests and throw their support behind it. Conservatism existed long before either Koch brother was born, will exist long after both are dead, and this grass roots movement would have flourished with or without their help. I'm not sure how much the Koch's affected things in the first place, what Tea Party candidates will suddenly let the Koch brothers do, or where they'll suddenly find the power to allow the Koch brothers to do whatever it is you think they will.

Of course the Koch brothers are looking out for their own interests, that's practically the definition of conservatism! You're not actually naive enough to believe George Soros, Pres. Obama, or whoever you agree with ideologically is genuinely altruistic and not looking to advance themselves, are you?

If there's one thing I've learned over the past 28 years it's politicians are politicians and they're all looking out for themselves. I don't know how much you follow U.S. politics anymore, as I believe you're permanently moved overseas (am I wrong?), but look no further than the "green" movement as an example of the wolves tending the sheep.

Former VP Al Gore flies around on his jumbo jet educating the world on the dangers of MMGW (or whatever they're calling it this week), pouring millions into campaigns promising environmental change, which get people elected, who pass laws ... which fills his own coffers with even more money! I love hearing people talk about skeptics getting money from Exxon or the Koch brothers. Do people believe global warming proponents work for free?

(Edited by Jestah on 11-10-2010 19:42)

It is good hearing from you though. I hope all is well.

Thanks for that. All is well.

Yes, one thing is true that you have mentioned -

quote:

---

If there's one thing I've learned over the past 28 years it's politicians are politicians and they're all looking out for themselves.

---

This is undoubtedly true, and I have mentioned this before in the past (mostly in replies to Bugs, however).

But there is a big difference between being a politician, and being a private citizen that is purposely (secretly) funding a supposedly grass-roots movement that turns out not to be one after all - just a sham covering up rich men pouring their money into politics. The Tea Party is supposed to be against all that. So how hypocritical is that?

There is also a big difference between politicians that have been elected to office by large contributions from said "special interest groups" (who of course then want their interests represented upon success of said politician) and those politicians that have gotten into office due to other means. The incentive is different, and although we do not have anything along the lines of altruism here, there is a tendence to try to at least accomplish some of their campaign promises, much to the contrary from their paid constituents.

WebShaman | The keenest sorrow (and greatest truth) is to recognize ourselves as the sole cause of all our adversities.
- Sophocles

You're really just wrong on all your points with little wiggle room, WS.

1. The Koch's political leanings are hardly secret.
2. The Kochs didn't fund the Tea Party movement, overtly or covertly.
3. The Tea Party movement had little, if any interest, in keeping wealthy businessmen (or corporations) out of elections.

The Tea Party was very much a grass roots movement, so much so that there is little unified message from one individual group to the next. The Koch's didn't fund these groups. They may have given donations, information, or other support to candidates or individual Tea Party groups but there is nothing hypocritical about that and it's no different from hundreds of thousands of other wealthy individuals who contributed money to campaigns and causes.

I think most of this animosity is over a difference of ideology than any real evil done.

I also doubt there's a single politician who has ever gotten into office without help from some special interest or another. All politicians pay lip service to campaign pledges and promises, as long as it's convenient. It doesn't matter which party a politician belongs to or what their ideological leanings, at the end of the day a politicians main objective is to be elected then re-elected. I just don't see anything that makes me believe the Tea Party groups have done anything wrong, or even unusual, and I'm not even a supporter.

(Edited by Jestah on 11-11-2010 23:18)

tea party is all about a group of individuals coming to discuss their matters at hand.
i would agree with all who say that politicians are there to just look out for themselves. no person or a group can have such high stakes in the government unless they are not influencing it one way or another.