Topic awaiting preservation: Commercial use?

I'm a little fuzzy on this... What is the defenition of commercial use anyway?

Let's say if I use a photo that's not supposed to be used commercially, in a demo for my company (never sold or published) is that commercial use?

Yes that is a commercial use.

Commercial use = Personal use or Non-Profit organisation. This may or may not include Gonvernments, usually that's another clause though so I'd say not.

Commercial us would be if you're earning money on it. I don't think your situation would be problematic. In fact you're earning your paycheck with it, but the audience is not directly paying you for seeing it.

(as Dracusis said, though, it's not 'legal'. It's just over the border.)



[This message has been edited by mahjqa (edited 02-13-2003).]

Personally I never use Stock Photography unless the licenseing agreement is very clear. Double every contract or lienceing agreement very carfully. Make sure you get rid of the picture afterword or make it very clear that it is not for commercial use. Image have a funny way of turning up elsewhere in the company. Often simply place a stock photograph in an asset management system violates the licenseing agreement. There is nothing like getting a call from the PhotoDisc legal department after and their impostion image shows up by accident in a TV screen in a million run catalog.

Personally I would consider it commercial if it was used by a company as part of doing business or if you some how profited from it's use. Not necessarly involving the exchange of money. Say the company makes a sale of a new product using a demo or perhaps if you received a promotion do to a sucessfull demo.

It's a tuff call, sounds like a good question for a legal department, I know most I have worked with would freek I used any images without signed contract with terms of useage clearly defined. If not I was not allowed to use it.

I guess I would trust my conscience and see what it is trying to tell me. Deep down I always really know the answer one way or the other.

J. Stuart J.

PS> When using Stock Photography, It is a good idea keep a printed copy along with a hard copy of the contract. That way if any useage question are raise you have documentation.

Hmm... this is a toughie. As Stuart said... pictures have a funny way of turning up everywhere. Eventhough it's something that's only being used for layout purposes while a project is developed in house, I'm scared that they'll slip out into a live website. I guess it's better to be safe than sorry, eh?

Speaking of PhotoDisc... I have a couple of their compilations (you know the "Workplace", "Cyber Office" ones that you see everywhere) but they were purchased so long ago I don't even have the original cases for the CDs anymore. If the PhotoDisc people rang me up I couldn't prove I have a license even though that is the case.

I would guess the cd would be proof enough, I would guess there is also a readme file on the disk. I don't think the chances of PhotoDisc seeing it is too great in most cases anyway, in our case we dicovered it and try to pay-up after it was published. They were very nice about it. But we also used dozens of their image each year.


J. Stuart J.

"And why does Peter keep in good working stature with various photographers, as well as carry his own Canon around with him relentlessly?"


Ayep.


"Fair Use" is a stickler at times. You could very well be infringing on copyright just by showing your boss ANY presentation with the aforementioned stock-photo in it. Listen to J Stuart...he's got the goods. Determining fair use is tough, but keep in mind that "commercial" does not always (and sometimes rarely) means monetary exchange. It can be seen as any furthering of your own, or your company's interests through the misappropriation of someone else's work.

"Comercial Use" in my eyes is the same as "use in commercial environment"
Even if you not going to make profit out of it...

My 2c

"Freedom of speech is by no means freedom to insult others" from the Razorart goodbye letter.

There are one or two services online that I've found that specifically state it's okay to use their stuff free in comps. Since others make no mention of it, that tells me that within the industry, on both sides of the table, comps are a grey area, so no general rule applies--other than asking first.

The ones that say, "comps are commercial use" may not necessarily be greedy since one could use their stuff in comps to land the job then hire out or shoot the final stuff yourself. Since they helped land the job, even if their work isn't in the final product, the feel they're due something. I'm inclined to agree.

Using some shots from one of those "free for comps" services, I'm developing an intranet for a non-profit. It could be argued that since the client is non-profit, (or even because it's an intranet) that would meet the free to non-profits clause in most agreements.

On the other hand I'm getting paid (and with any luck turning a profit) if the client goes with the comps as presented. That makes it clearly commercial by most agreements.

Which way is it? It's a judgement call that can only be settled by the copyright holder.

And as you know (or will find out soon enough), as soon as lawyers get involved logic and common sense go right out the window.

It's certainly interesting to read all of your replies. Obviously I'm not the only one who's a little fuzzy on the subject.

I don't think I need to tell you all what a positive difference a good photo can make. It's a shame when you have to pass up on an ideal shot because nobody seems to remember where the licence is anymore. :-/

The unevitable sub-question:
Does anyone have any good links to free photo resources?

Most of the sites I occationally use now are... well... crap. www.freefoto.com is allright but rather limited...
There are SO many good photographers out there. Where are they hiding? There should be a nice resource somewhere, like Pictor or GettyImages, for completely free images.



[This message has been edited by BlueHarvest (edited 02-17-2003).]

I googled on "free stock photo" and found several. Of course you have to dig through the ones it brings up that are royalty-free, but I found the types of photos I needed after a couple of hours.

BH: DS/Copey has thrown a lot of links in here - it might take a bit of nosing around though:
http://development.gurusnetwork.com/links/216/

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Going through piles of photos though google and search engines like it is exactly whay I want to avoid. It's time consuming and even if your find a good enough picture that you could use, the copyrights of the picture is hard to trace.

Thanks for the link Emperor. I found a couple of sites there that weren't all together wretched. :-P Thanks!!