Topic awaiting preservation: SARS ? Your opinions ?

So with the recent SARS making headlines, what are your thoughts ?

It seems to me that there are far worse illnesses in the world with higher daily death rates and yet this seems to be getting huge media attention.
I fear that there is something about it that we have yet to hear about, but i am sure that sometime soon we will get the full story, or at least what the media tell us.

You may find this interesting to read SARS Opinion

and this Another link to browse

and one last one Last one for reading

So ? What do you folks think ?

Why it gets so much attention? Because it threatens the western world. Sure, Africa has a lot of diseases and stuff, but we don't care 'cuz we don't get them. AIDS? Use a condom, and you don't have to worry about anything.

Also, the 'unknown' and lethal virus make people very anxious. There's no real cure known, you can't see it before it's too late... There's a reason why people are afraid of biological weapons.

(Post is lacking coherency. Please excuse the writer, for he is tired)

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AIDS? Use a condom, and you don't have to worry about anything.

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I beg to differ.

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Also, the 'unknown' and lethal virus make people very anxious

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As you suggested the virus is UNKNOWN, SARS is the symptoms, not a virus ( as far as i am aware ), most people that have died have been elderly or people that have immune problems, healthy people can actually survive the symptoms.

I personally think that there is a cover up going on, my own opinion is that something has gone wrong and the powers that be are shitting themselves.

But i guess time will tell in the end.




[This message has been edited by axleclarkeuk (edited 04-24-2003).]

Well just like any good plague, idiots spreading paranoia will make it all better.


Look what it did for Bubonic.

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I personally think that there is a cover up going on, my own opinion is that something has gone wrong and the powers that be are shitting themselves.

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I think we are cramming more and more people into this planet and pumping people with various drugs - its perfect conditions for the development of some kind of super plague - SARS will probably turn out to be nothing its the other ones down the pipe you should watch out for

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well, if you think about the lengths that China has gone to to stop it spreading and that it's still breaking quarantines left right and centre then yeah, it is nasty. As for the low death tolls... It's about what, 50+ deaths with 2500+ infections in how long, a couple of months?

If it gets out of hand and spreads exponentially then you could be looking at death tolls in the 1000's by the years end. With things like these, the more it spreads the harder it is to control. It's also a nasty kind of virus that can affect both humans and most mammals.

So um yah, I'd say it's a big deal.

Oh and I also heard that a vaccine will most likely take around 2 years to develop.

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 04-25-2003).]

At this point, all I can see is a gross overreaction taking place. I would expect nothing less from our society as it currently operates As more data rolls in this could change, of course, but until then I think we really need to keep our heads about us.

On a side note, with one pronouncement the WHO did some serious damage to Toronto, that's really got to hurt. I seriously wonder it that was called for.

Well SARS is caused by a virus. It's actually familiar to the some influenza virus's which means it can mutate all the time and is very well protected. The outbreak also is very simular to the Spanish flue wich killed 21milion people in one year in 1918-1919. And with all those people traveling around the world it can spread very fast.
WHO Sars page
CDC Sars page

__________________________________________
"Art has to be forgotten. Beauty must be realized."
Piet Mondriaan

[This message has been edited by Rinswind 2th (edited 04-25-2003).]

Well, if it is like the flu and is deadly, then yah I would imagine that many would be scared. We are due for another plague. I just hate to say it though. So many diseases have left a scar on our memory. AIDS, Influenza.... Heck my parents remember the Polio scare of the 50s. My aunt had that. Now it is West Nile and SARS. Even the Black Plague is still talked about to this day, and who knows? Maybe another form of that one will pop up again someday, if it is not here still. I just think it is nature's and/or god's way of keeping us in check from time to time.

As far as I know, the virus is no longer unknown--SARS is caused by the Corona virus (not sure about the spelling). I agree with some of the posts above, in particular mahjqa's comment that it is getting so much attention because it threatens the West. There are far more deadly diseases than this virus. As was pointed out above, it does have a low death rate and most healthy people will be able to survive it.

Should we ignore it? No, certainly not. It is a dangerous disease and we should take reasonable care. Should we run around like chickens with their heads cut off? Again, no. This is not the end of humanity. We will survive this. Ditto to DG's and Bugs' comments.

[Edit: Forgot to close my parentheses.]



www.liminality.org

well media has to be responsible for causing some of the panic no?

[This message has been edited by axleclarkeuk (edited 04-25-2003).]

Well actually if you read axles links, the corona virus is only present in 40% of the people who seem to have the symptoms. SARS in not a disease, its a name given to a group of symptoms. THis was an email i recieved yesterday:

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/apr/11sars3.htm

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SARS virus was created in weapons lab: Russian scientist


rediff.com News Desk

People will believe anything they read.

A Russian news agency reported on what some guy said at a news conference, none of which seems to be supported by outside sources and part of which was complete conjecture. Yeah, breaking news here.

And the Sierra Times -- now that's a credible news source... "An Internet Publication for Real Americans."

Just because something appears in print doesn't mean there's anything to it.

But, hey, I could be wrong. Every disease discovered since the 50s and from here foreward was probably manufactured in a lab by men without faces. And if a cure is ever found, it's because it was developed along with the disease and will be released after a predetermined period of time for reasons of...well, we will never know their true agenda.

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Every disease discovered since the 50s and from here foreward was probably manufactured in a lab by men without faces.

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Huh. And I always thought it was men without hats...

*We can dance if we want to, we can leave your friends behind - cause your friends don't dance, and if they don't dance, then they're - no friends of mine...*



No really, I actually agree with the sentiment that most new disease are the result of man tampering with nature... The world's scientists are probably messing with all sorts of things that they shouldn't...

I swear, I'm getting me one of those bubbles to live in... Next time you see me, I'll be rolling down the street in a large hamster ball...

Bodhi - Cell 617

ummmm wes? because i posted the email doesn't necessarly mean i believe everything it has to say. I mean why ridicule where it came from and then in the next breath say this:

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But, hey, I could be wrong. Every disease discovered since the 50s and from here foreward was probably manufactured in a lab by men without faces. And if a cure is ever found, it's because it was developed along with the disease and will be released after a predetermined period of time for reasons of...well, we will never know their true agenda.

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?

Suho1004: I thought is men with hats?

I quite like this idea:
www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=8&contentid=806&page=2

the little abstract:
www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=8&contentid=806

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The following are some articles, by date, on SARS (the name has been changed from "Acute" respiratory syndrome to "Severe" ARS. The symptoms and the death rate are the same, no matter what you call the disease. Why has this information been omitted from recent reports of SARS coming from Asia? Is this a new depopulation scheme of the World Health Organization? Remember supposed "overpopulation" was named as a "national security" threat by the United States Government during the Kissinger era. Is SARS another "manmade" disease cooked up by the black magicians of Fort Detrick?)

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Black magacians, it being the US' fault (explains Toronto now doesn't it?), etc. - it has it all!!

I also think I have suffered from "Severe" ARS but only after a hot curry (sorry In fact I'm now worried this whole post was just for that cheap gag).

It is nice to see that all the crazies are jumping on the band wagon (in fact reading through that page it looks like the jump on every band wagon):
www.prophecyfulfillment.com

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

pink - with a little time, and a little luck , you may begin to note the sarcasm in wes' "theory" on the origin of diseases...


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There's nothing worse than a severe curry ars emperor =(

Pink, that's what we with reasoning abilities call sarcasm. The fact that you actually inferred that my string of exaggerated conspiracy babble was anything close to serious reinforces my belief that you probably did give unquestioning credence to the articles you posted.

I was making fun of the conspiracy theories people paint on every negative occurrence in the world.

Ah...DL snuck that in ahead of me. So...what he said.




[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 04-25-2003).]

*sigh* ...... NO wes, Just tired and confused, and trying to get to know your charismatic thinking process.

Oh yes..... i take every idea on board, i think its called beeing open mined.

Er... maybe you should all take a look at this...

www.themedianews.com/sars.htm


...xpi...

"nuff said"

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 05-03-2003).]

Loll!!

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open mined

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Yup. That's what I'd call it, too...woohooo!

Hehe...man, that is killing me...

X! Is this one of the sources you've been citing? http://www.prophecyandpreparedness.com/

Bugs: Thats a classic - and no laughing as its by:

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By Health Scientist and Government Cover-up Investigator

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And who is he - well just read here (I do hope he doesn't read that as his head wouldn't fit through the door).
http://www.prophecyandpreparedness.com/About%20Dr%20Horowitz.htm

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emps: Sorry, it's Men Without Hats. And bodhi even sang the Safety Dance for us!

While men without hats may be responsible for a great deal of *illness*, I'm not sure if they quite qualify as disease....

WS your getting to be as predictable as DL-44.

*shakes head and walks away*



[This message has been edited by pink (edited 04-26-2003).]

[URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20030423/en_usatoday/5094290/]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20030423/en_usatoday/5094290/[/UR L]

Damn link doesnt work.......


The new quarantine laws

Toni Locy USA TODAY


Growing fears of biological or chemical attacks by terrorists have led 14 states and the District of Columbia to update antiquated quarantine laws that allow governments to confine people against their will during a health crisis.

In revising laws that in some cases are up to 200 years old, states are recognizing the litigious nature of modern America. They are creating ways to appeal quarantine orders and are granting legal immunity to local officials, doctors and others who could be pressed into government service in a crisis.

Similar proposals are pending in 12 other states as officials grapple with fear of retaliation against the USA over the war with Iraq (news - web sites) and frequent warnings by the Bush administration that al-Qaeda terrorists could use smallpox, bubonic plague or radioactive ''dirty bombs'' to attack the nation.

State and local officials who would be on the front lines have had to consider scenarios that were unthinkable before Sept. 11, 2001: widespread panic, the spread of disease and disruption of governments.

States are responsible for regulating public health, but the president can order a quarantine if there is danger that disease could spread across state lines. President Bush (news - web sites) recently added severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS (news - web sites)), the mysterious illness that began in China, to the list of diseases for which a quarantine could be ordered by the U.S. government.

''If (an attack) were to hit a state that had not done the planning, it's the population that will suffer,'' says James Hodge, deputy director of the Center for Law and the Public's Health at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore.


Legislators from Hawaii to New Hampshire have revamped public health laws with little debate. That troubles civil libertarians and conservatives alike, who say the new quarantine laws give too much power to state and local health officials after a governor, in most cases, declares an emergency.


Even some proponents worry that a crisis requiring a quarantine could expose weaknesses in the public health system, which varies in quality not just from state to state but from county to county. Local health officials, particularly in rural areas, often are political appointees who may not be qualified to assess the health risks of a biological, chemical or radiological attack.

Many state and local officials assume that federal agencies such as the FBI (news - web sites) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (news - web sites) would take charge after an attack or after an outbreak of an infectious disease such as SARS. But in the critical first hours, state and local officials probably would make key decisions on medical responses, quarantines and other matters.


Supporters of the new laws say that spelling out government powers and the public's rights should limit confusion in a crisis. ''The real risk is not reforming these laws,'' says Lawrence Gostin, director of the Center for Law and the Public's Health at Georgetown University's law school in Washington, D.C.


It goes on..... to long to paste, but i find it very interesting.........


[This message has been edited by pink (edited 04-26-2003).]

"Document Not Found" bad link

I know, sorry, you snuck in!

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State and local officials who would be on the front lines have had to consider scenarios that were unthinkable before Sept. 11, 2001: widespread panic, the spread of disease and disruption of governments.

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This is so misleading. Experts have been warning about this eventuality for decades! No one here *wanted* to think about it and that is why it was "unthinkable". This really upsets me.

I agree with you Bugimus.

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People will believe anything they read.

A Russian news agency reported on what some guy said at a news conference, none of which seems to be supported by outside sources and part of which was complete conjecture. Yeah, breaking news here.

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hmmmmmm...

Found this on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/04/24/timeline.sars/

The following is the some of the key developments in the SARS outbreak:

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March 18: Scientists and doctors say preliminary tests indicate SARS may be caused by a common class of virus known as paramyxovirus, a family of microbes that causes measles, mumps and canine distemper, as well as several respiratory diseases.

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I think CNN is considered an outside source........no?


*Slaps a high five with axle*

I'm impressed by how you leapt to that conclusion from that.

I know conspiracy theories are much more fun than what will turn out to be the actual reason but balming it on some escaped weapong from some kind of lab is a very bad idea because it means we don't address the root of the problem.

Southern China seems to be a hot bed of these influenza-like diseases possibly because of the integrated animal farming there - see:

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In the case of SARS, the common agricultural process of mixed pig-duck-chicken farming and the presence of other livestock in southern China, has probably encouraged the exchange of genetic material between viruses and the emergence of a new "lethal" strain.

There would seem little doubt that human behaviour and demographics, environmental modification, global travel, the complacency and in some cases breakdown of public health systems, allied to a general disinterest in the role that the biophysical environment might play on our lives, has encouraged the emergence of a wide range of infections.

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www.abc.net.au/public/s824453.htm
www.msnbc.com/news/899514.asp
www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hssars013200941apr01,0,1665890.story?coll=ny-health-headlines

see also:

although:
www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/health/1864073

Of course where science has gaps fools rush in but........

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emps i wasnt't implying anything...... Gees...... I just recieved an email about how this russian scientist said he thinks that SARS is a synthesis of the viruses of measles and infectious parotiditis or mumps, the natural compound of which is impossible, And that this can only be done in a laboratory.

Wes then took the piss of where the news source came from, saying that where was the supported by outside sources ?

So on CNN they mention the bases of that idea, and so i found an OUTSIDE SOURCE.

I'm not saying anything about conspiracy theory's, i'm not out of the CNN point making anything out of it. I'm just saying i have found two reports MENTIONING about measles and mumps............ok!

pink: Sorry I misunerstood what you were getting at there - however it may not be a second source they might be quoting the same source

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

LMAO.... oh goddddddddddddddddd i give up......Rofl

Forgive me if I don't read the entire CNN timeline -- please point out to me what specific part of it supports the aforementioned Russian scientist's claim that SARS was developed as a bacteriological weapon and his implication that a cure will soon appear because it was developed along with the weapon.

And, incidentally, an open mind without a cognizant filter is just a sponge.



[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 04-27-2003).]

And how long did it take you to think that one liner up DL-44? lmao.

Not explaining myself YET again read what answer i gave Emperor.

I did a search of the connection between SARS, and mealses and mumps and 1,160 articles came up.

These statements were a little bit......worrying,


No one they have tested who does not have SARS has antibodies to the virus, suggesting it is new and that no one has been exposed to it before.

The lung damage seen in patients who died of SARS looks more like the damage done by measles, respiratory syncytial virus and some other diseases, and not like the damage done by other coronaviruses, they said.

The CDC team is working to sequence the DNA of the virus, which will give a better idea of what it is and where it originates. But it does not look like anything they have
seen before in animals or people.

While no -one has gone as far as what the russian scientist has said, I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand.

moi?

According to the Korean news (which was apparently quoting CNN, although I didn't see the original story), kimchi is the answer to all your SARS worries. Common sense would dictate that Korea should now be inundated with SARS, but we haven't had a single confirmed case yet. The logical conclusion, of course, is that kimchi helps prevent SARS.

You just gotta love Korea sometimes.

just a note, not that its not important to know where the disease came from, but wouldnt it be a little more important to see the progress on how fast we are going to somehow get a vaccine for this? (i hope they make one before im old, apparently if you are less than 5 or considered elderly youve got more of a problem). also, if you are a pessimist, you'll never be disappointed. just maybe a little bit wrong, sometimes.
note about the origin of SARS- if it was made inside a laboratory, and somehow the "bioterrorist scientist" who made this made a vaccine to cure it (for reasons unbeknownst to me), that would be the only useful connection i could see between finding where SARS started. (to know if there is already a vaccine, or not). And why blame it on the russians? pink, i respect that you are open....minded but i think we'd all like to see if theres a credible source mentioning some of the issues in the thing you posted. Not that its wrong or right (ha i feel so neutral, hi im switzerland) its just...why not clear it up?

Bugs: No not really but that does get me thinking... and the conclusion is I don't know what the hell to think about all this SARS business.

Have a nice day..

...xpi...

"nuff said"

I never BLAMED the russians, the email was REPORTING on what a russian scientist had SAID.

In the telegraph paper yesterday, the stories about SARS was asking the question was it bio-terrorism? The answer was no. But its on most people's mind.

Personally i don't think we will really know whether its man made or natural for years.

And theres a programme about SARS tonight at 9pm on channel 4 , so shall be watching with interest.

[This message has been edited by pink (edited 04-28-2003).]

Hmmm...

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But its on most people's mind

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I would say that SARS is on most peoples minds...but as to whether or not it was produced, or is natural...I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that...

Not everyone thinks the way I do...or the way you do...best to leave that open, then, right? Unless, of course, one has evidence of the fact...

Have a nice day.

For people that live in the UK, there is a program on Channel 4, 9pm tonight ( 28/04/2003) about SARS, may be an interesting to watch.



[This message has been edited by axleclarkeuk (edited 04-28-2003).]

It's hard to explain what I thought of it, because my own country, Philippines, is already affected by that disease. And I'm hopin' that it woudn't go that far to my relatives up there!

Well, Korea finally has her first SARS case. Some guy who came back from China. Not to sound harsh or anything, but why couldn't he have stayed there? I mean, did he really feel an overwhelming desire to bring the disease back to his friends and family?

Hurries back to the kitchen to eat some more kimchi and garlic

because he wanted to share it. He doesn't wanna be alone in this case.

Go figure!

http://www.sarstravel.com/sars_gone.htm

Thought I pass this along, it was in todays Newspaper:

2 new cases of SARS in a Toronto Hospital - both are nurses. Nothing new really - but what makes this special is :

"Suspected cause of transmission - over tired they took of their protective masks off and rubbed their eyes."

I frankly believe that this whole SARS spread is also to be contributed to personal hygiene.
Lets face it how many people wash their hands after they handle money? Very few next to none after all we all work hard to earn this stuff - how can it be dirty?

To you know where that coin or bill came from?

How many people wash their hands afte they cover their mouth when they cough? And on it goes.......

Personally I am more concerned about the West Nile Virus which is spread via misquito bits then SARS.

sib