Topic awaiting preservation: Final nail in the coffin for Netscape

http://www.mozillazine.org/talkback.html?article=3422

For once, I beat the mad scientists.
I heard about it yesterday

Yup.


RIP Netscape (1994-2003)



[This message has been edited by ozphactor (edited 07-17-2003).]

?... I'm not a Mad Scientist, and what difference does it make anyhow?

Perosnally, I couldn't care less about Mozilla... It has started seriously to annoy me with each new release. For example, dynamic alpha blending support works in one release and then all of a sudden it doesn't work in the next release anymore. I really don't know what that people do, but I tend not to break stuff that's already working. When 1.3 release came I out, I've thought that they finally managed to fix everything related to alpha blending (and JS control of it). And, now when I wanted to try 1.4 release, I was very surprised to see that alpha blending is completely broken. But, that's not all, they also managed to *completely* break ActiveX embedding. Appropriate dll files are *missing* from the install exe file, while they do exist in the zip file (ow weird is that), but they don't work properly anymore, because layour of GRE (Gecko runtime environment) files was changed.

So, as I've said I don't care about Mozilla anymore...

BTW Dracusis, ozphactor was reffering to the content of this topic.

i heard about this yesterday...
there's this bit about it from eric meyer



[This message has been edited by Lacuna (edited 07-17-2003).]

This reminds me of an issue I've been meaning to bring up -- does anyone else think we should update the FAQ's What browsers should I test my web site with?

It currently lists "IE5+, NS6.1+, Op5+ and NS4.x."

NS4 holds about 1% of the market according to various browser statistics and, frankly, is a worthless POS, anyway. I completely disregarded it in my last couple of jobs because it wasn't worth the extra frustration to make it work in NS4 when I could do things much more easily with proper CSS.

Opera is up to version 7 now, so I test in 6 and 7, but not longer in 5. As I see it, the people who use Opera are those who are making a concious choice to use an alternative browser and are most likely keeping it up to date.

IE5 and 6 still hold large shares. (Although it's tough to test in 5 when you keep your own system up to date.)

Pity me Wes ... the corporate minimum standard here is NS4.7 and everything has to pass through the "crock of shit test" before it goes out on the web ... ARRRRRRGHHH!!

(P.S. I just LOVE your web site ... It's always amusing - it must take quite an effort to keep it "moving")

Bug-free software only exisits in two places
A programmer's mind and a salesman's lips

[This message has been edited by trib (edited 07-17-2003).]

Geez, Mr Max. I haven't seen you on the boards for ages. What have you been up to?

Dude, Where's My Sig?

My take on the whole browser compatibility thing is that I want to be done with hacked tables and bizarre cross-browser fixes. From now on, I want clean HTML, a layout stylesheet and a visual feel stylesheet. Executed properly I can create a site that is accessible in any browser even if it looks like shit.

In short, I want people in Netscape 4 to be able to read my site, but I'm not making any effort for it to look good for them (See http://www.alistapart.com in NS). I'll reserve my graphic design for Mozilla, Konqueror, Opera, and IE 6 thank you very much.

Of course at work my boss still runs NS 4, doh!

-jiblet

oh my heart is broken to see netscape crumble ....NOT!. Finaly on to bigger and better things.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/07/16/HNaol_1.html

While I'll be the first to say that Netscape Navigator 4 was horrible, this does not at all make me happy. Maybe, as Max said, Mozilla/Netscape does a poor job of supporting its extra features like transparency and such, but when it comes to standards support, it really does a good job. Specifically, it does a much better job than Internet Explorer is doing. Internet Explorer's support for standards is really pretty bad when put up against Mozilla or Opera.

Because of this, I'm sad to see Netscape go. I think the last thing we need is a lack of competitors against Microsoft. This is just another reason for people to switch from Netscape to Internet Explorer, which won't be updated for a very long time (according to Microsoft announcements).

This will only make our jobs more difficult in the long run.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

I also agree very strongly with Slime.

I don't know anything about the intricacies of Javascript and its cross browser concerns, but I do love Mozilla's standards support and its overall user experience.

Things like Javascript control of alpha blending seem pretty superfluous in comparison to basic standards support and having a stable program that doesn't crash a couple times a week...

Why's everyone acting like Mozilla is dead too? Because they're not.

Oh wait, I see what you mean....

Without Netscape, we no longer have a "Regular Joe" front-end for the Gecko engine. Let's face it. Mozilla is for geeks. The very complexity of they're homepage is enough to drive away the average end user. (Although they recently redesigned it in light of these new events and its actually a lot better now...) Now, Mozilla is going to have to work twice, heck three times as hard to get the message out.

I dunno how they're going to do this, but they're going to need some help.


[ - ozphactor - ]

I used to think "Netscape" falling whilst we still had "Mozilla" was ok, but I've since changed my mind.

The problem being the current state of IE. From what I've heard, the only thing that's going to save IE is an engine re-write. Aparently it's at about the point now that NN4.7 was at, they've tacked about as many fixes onto it as possible, which would explain several things. The first being why so many seemingly simple bug fixes were never made. Secondly, the complete lack of updates and the admission by MS that there will be no new IE untill their next OS and even then it will only be avaliable for the users of that OS as a fully intergrated part of the OS itself, in short, there will be no more IE period.

So, now we have 85% (probably more, I haven't checked the figures recently) of the browser market using a web browser that's going absolutly nowhere! No more fixes, no more enhancments, no CSS2, nadda, nothing, zip.

Now AOL have decided to jump ship, but if you ask me, it looks like they just signed a death warrant for their entire userbase.

Remember, as web designers we have to deal with what the end user has. Whilst IE 6 might not be too bad now, it's absolutly certain to be a thorne in the site of developers and designers a few short yers down the track. Hell, it already pisses me off now, I want position:fixed and min-width: to work, but now how long will it be before I can count on them enough to make designs with them? 1 year? 3 years? ... and don't even get me started on IE6 & CSS2 . . .

You've been reading all the same articles I have, Drac. For those of you who don't follow every happening in the browser wars, but are stil interested...


An interesting (if somewhat long) article at evolt.org: http://www.evolt.org/article/Browser_Wars_II_The_Saga_Continues/25/60181/index.html

The door is ajar: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/17/BrowserDream




[ - ozphactor - ]

There is plenty of room for conspiracy theories - of course the alternative is usually a strong one i.e. people really are just stupid and often criminally negligent and conspiracy theories tend to try and fill that gap and and restore some faith in humanity.

Overview:
http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0703a.shtml#mistake
http://scriptingnews.userland.com/backissues/2003/06/13#When:5:51:39PM
http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0603a.shtml#conspiracytheory
http://www.clagnut.com/blog/205/

This is from 1998:
http://www.zeldman.com/daily/0603a.shtml#conspiracytheory

What next Linux?
http://www.livejournal.com/community/linux/385129.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Good article and comments here:
http://evolt.org/article/Browser_Wars_II_The_Saga_Continues/25/60181/index.html

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor