Topic awaiting preservation: Copyright

Aight all
Hope this isnt in the wrong place, since it is associated with scripts.
A few days ago I came across a site that had the same script I was using on an older site. Now I know I made the script because it had my *style* of doing it.
In fact it was virtually un-altered.
Question.
Where does one stand legally on the net when someone takes and uses your script NOT for monetary reasons I should add..just because its there and they like it?
Also if the owner of the site is in e.g the USA and I live in Australia. Is there any way that the thief can be prosicuted? or is the best I could hope for would to be inform the webpage hosting provider that blah site was using my script and hope they pulled the thiefs plug? obviously proof of ownership would play a part here.

Coomments?
Regards

Hmz,

I'm not a lawyer, but how do you want to prove it's your code?
Personally I thing biting is wack, but hey, I just accept that every bit of html, js or css is bitable.
And it's a good way for beginners to learn stuff...

splodge: I doubt there is much you can do - did you have a copyright notice in the script?

I think the best you can manage is to email them and get them to add your copyright to it but as it isn't a for profit site...........

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Thanks for the replies there guys
The copyright notice you mention Emps ..?...I mean whats it good for then? Ok so I ask them to include who made it a return a link to my site (optional) but spose they say "tough luck" does this mean copyright notices are just a waste of space if the new user isnt profiting by it?

This being the case, why have it at all. But I hasten to add I do know what their purpose is for. However if they carry so little weight unlike a patent ...I see no reason to have them and lets have a free for all taking anyones work. (being sarcastic)
I do agree in some ways with Nevels comment. I too have viewed source to see how this or that is put together but I wouldnt feel right using another persons site as my own....Kinda defeats the object or progress and learning which is why i thing sites like this are so valuble to us all.
Spose I'm just bitter ......but then I guess its the game were in.
Thanks again
Regards
Steve H

Ah, Don't be bitter now...
People might bite your code, but you'll always be a few steps ahead. For me, that's a relief.
Indeed, script kiddo's will probably say "drop dead" when you want them to include your copyright notice. So the only people that'll read your copyright notice will be the biters themselves.
So what's the message you want them to hear? For example, I chose to make it a combination of advise and arrogance, both challenging them and hopefully making them realize it's dumb to blindly steal some code:
"Read my code Or eat my dust For bite you might But learn you must"

But hey, you could of course generate client-side code through php or through an isapi-dll or whatever, so that it 'll be harder to steal.

Unfortunate, but it happens. At the worst, you can feel proud that some work you did inspired other people.. the unfortunate part being, they weren't capable of (or couldn't be bothered) writing their own.

I've had a few things from my site (well the site itself rather, a couple times) ripped off before. You can e-mail them and ask them to take it down, but if it's code then I wouldn't say there's a whole lot you can really do.

Every original work (in the US anyways) created by a person is supposed to be automatically protected by US copyright law. How much weight that holds elsewhere, I don't know - but if you do put a copyright notice in your code, that will help you in court as you can say there was an obvious notice stating your copyright; therefore, the copier had to knowingly choose to ignore your copyright if they copied it.

For fun, you could throw the odd domain checking thing in your more complex scripts, to see where they're loading from.. or load a counter image etc., but pass window.location instead of the document.referer, track where it's being used. Could work!

Maybe you should talk to the guy behind twinhelix.com.
I recently found the following comment in one of his js-scripts(which, by the way, he eagerly tried to hide ):

// *** ATTENTION! ***
// By ignoring the copyright warnings and using this script file on a site without
// express permission, you will be immediately liable for a US$500 Infringement Fee.
// Hint: use the scripts available on my site, NOT this file. Please?

Could this be just a threat, or does he know what he's talking about?

I would almost say he's trying *too* hard.. but the copyright notice I think goes back to my earlier comment about liability. If you put something in your code stating copyright etc., it helps to strengthen your case were you to take someone to court as they had to "knowingly" choose to ignore your notice and copy the code despite the warning.

Looks like some script encoding of some sort going on there? I find the formatting of the code amusing in that script blocks are indented, code is moved down etc.. I've seen this done before, but really it made me laugh.

I have an old quote, it goes like this (for the Web): "If you can see it, you can steal it."
Agreeably it's not the most positive-sounding thing, but let's face it - the Web is meant to be an open kind of platform, that's how it was built.

I used to be more on the protective side when it came to code I wrote, but I realized quickly that:
a) There's nothing you can really do, really.
b) People will take what they want, whether it's your work, music (*ahem*.. mp3) or otherwise.
c) What was one of the ways you likely learned? .. right, by looking at how other people did stuff!

So I think it's a good thing to format code nicely, for the benefit not only of yourself but of other people looking at your work. Do you think an agency etc. will want to hire someone who resorts to the above-mentioned techniques (formatting etc.) to "hide" their code?

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 10-02-2003).]

But if you're really pissed because of your entire site being stolen, you could of course do something like:

<script type="text/javascript">
function wankerAlert(){
if(location.href.indexOf('www.myDomain.com') == -1){
if(confirm("Attention: this site has been ripped entirely by some wanker who's obvously too stupid to build his own site.\n Would you like to be redirected to the person initially build it?"))
location.href="www.myDomain.com";
else
alert('Well, suit yourself');
}
}
setTimeout('wankerAlert()', 5000);
</script>

no?

^^^

Yup. But if I were going to do something like that, I'd do it in a more subtle way so it wouldn't be found right away and "fixed". Like loading a counter image, and passing the window.location as the referer argument (mentioned above in my first post.)

I should also add: No DHTML code can be "SO" valuable that it has to be "protected", in my opinion. If you have something that's just that cool, post it openly or accept the fact that it can't be reliably protected, just like most everything else on computers these days.

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 10-02-2003).]

I'm a little paranoid about some of my scripts. That's mainly due to competitive aspect and the lot of efforts I put in my submissions to some contests like 256B.HTM and THE5K.

Scott is damn right when he says: "If you can see it, you can steal it.".
Server side protections may prevent your scripts from lazy rippers but there's no ultimate solution. If you wish to protect your code anyway, I think you should use that kind of "protection" and write a brief tutorial to try to educate your audience.

IMHO copyright warnings placed in the code have little to no impact, all the more that it's extremely difficult to find a site that ripped your code. In the eventuallity you catch a ripper, he can easilly pretend he found your code somewhere else without the copyright mentions etc....

On the legal side, I'm not an expert but I guess the notion of Intellectual Property is granted in many countries. Unless you send a copy of every script you write to yourself ( and keep the letter closed ) or to a lawyer, it's difficult to proove you're their author.

Cheers,

Mathieu "POÏ" HENRI

Aight Guys
Wow! didnt think this would have such an impact but I have to say THANK YOU to all of you for the feedback and support. I really mean that.

You all raise some very good arguments POI in particular re one of his statments on finding it someplace else.
So I'll leave this link here for anyone to look at if they so wish . the part about HTML and Javascript is interesting about the middle of the page I think. http://www.whatiscopyright.org/
Thanks again guys
Appreciated
Regards

I forget who said this, but some time ago, someone here said that a good was was to make the script functions totally intwined and nearly impossible to reverse engineer by the script kiddies.

I'll admit that when I've tried to reverse engineer something as a method of learning, I've been put off by something that was too complex. Now - don't get me wrong - I wasn't stealing the code. But I was trying to use it to figure something out. It caused me to look elsewhere, or shelf the project.