Topic awaiting preservation: Programming

Hi im new at Programming and not quite sure where to start,
so if anyone has any ideas where i can start to learn the likes of c and c++
can you let me know.

Books. Some are free and some are not, but those are what I would recommend for C++. However, if you're just starting to learn programming please consider that there are options other than C/C++. When I first started learning programming I actually thought C/C++ was the only language available; how incredibly wrong I was.

[Cell 1303]

Not really the right forum for this, but I don't think there is one.

Learning to program can be very painful if you start off on the wrong foot, c and c++ can be extremely hard.
http://mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

This is a site that offers free versions to download of Bruce Eckels' Thinking in C++ series. They are a good place to learn the language. It takes a lot of hard work and perserverence. You will have to start small and then work larger. With C and C++ a lot of the great functionality has been abstracted into 3rd party API's.

If you want more information on this you should tell us how you plan to work with C or C++ so that we can give you some more specific information. If you simply want to learn programming concepts you might want to give Java a try as it encapsulates a whole lot of the functionality into its standard API, so you can read a book and understand a lot about the whole language. It would then allow you to move to another language with the basics down, you simply need to learn where and what the language API's are.

No matter what you should make sure to give us more information. Operating system you will be using, graphical programming, command line programming, a little of both, driver programming, systems programming, etc, etc.

Good luck,

-Dan-

I know my operating system is windows me but as i said before i am only a begginner and i am still learning the big words so i can't tell you what the graphics programming or the system programming is as i am not sure what these mean. if you tell me then i could let you know what they are also if there is anythin else you think i should know then could you please let me know.

Graphics programming would be along the lines of low level game programming (at least the "graphical" part of games). System programming would be along the lines of writing device drivers, operating systems, interpreters, compilers, and software that is usually used to create more software.

Python might be something good to start with, maybe writing a few games in Python would be good. Personally, I don't believe it would matter that much what language you started with as it sounds like you need to first learn the basics of programming and computing itself; the overall principles of programming and computing have less to do with computers than one may think (Note: the first programming language was actually invented over 150 years ago). I think Python might be a good starting point only because it could be more attention holding than spending your first months wading though the pedantic details of C++.

[Cell 1303]

I agree with Rooster. If you've never programmed before (or done anything like it) you should not start with C/C++. They are both very good languages, but not something I would recommend for the beginner. I've barely looked at python, but it seems like a nice language to start with. Another good language for the beginner is Java. The Thinking in Java book is also available online, and if you're going to try Java I recommend the book.

Another example showing there are more languages that C/C++ -> 99 bottles of beer in 598 languages
The best one of them has to be the one written in Whitespace



_________________________
"There are 10 kinds of people; those who know binary, those who don't and those who start counting at zero"
- the Golden Ratio -

To get the grasps of programming, and see if you want to go further, you can even start with JavaScript. It's a between a "real" language and a script language but it's free and solid enough to tease you to try something "bigger".

But I won't hide you that ultimately Whitespace ( official site ) is the way to go.



[This message has been edited by poi (edited 01-21-2004).]

Lets start at the beginning. You are running windows and you simply want to learn how to program, which is an admirable goal. I am going to start off like you don't know anything about computers so if I repeat things you already know just ignore it. I am also going to reccomend that you begin with Java as that is the first experience with programming I had that allowed me to program largish applications. I will also give you some information on Python if you are feeling you would like to go that way. I have not done much python programming, but I have to say that what I have done was enjoyable, and from what I have been hearing is being used a lot in open source game programming as well as large application prototyping.

Soooo, lets start at the beginnning with Java.

1. You will need to download the Java 2 Standard Development Kit http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/download.html
2. You will then need to install the program. I recommend that you read any readme that comes with the installation program.
3. You may need to set up your path variable if the program hasn't done so alread. Your path will need to include the 'bin' directory under your java, something like c:\j2sdk_1.4.2\bin will need to be added. The correct directory is the one that contains java.exe and javac.exe. The following link has information on setting your path variable in windows ME. http://www.stat.auckland.ac.nz/~kwan022/pub/R/WinBook/node18.html
4. Next you should download a text editor (unless you already have one). That will allow you to write plain text files. NotePad will work but I recommend something different, more powerful. I also recommend not using an IDE (Integrated Development Enviornment) like JBuilder or Netbeans or anything else like that, as working with the code by hand in a basic editor will get you further in the long run, down the line say 6 months to a year you will be better suited to use one, and you might find you don't like them (I don't). I recommend EditPlus as it has good syntax highlighting, you can get it at: http://www.editplus.com/
5. After all this is done you can open up your text editor and write some code. Try this for starters:

public class MyFirstProgram{

  public static void main(String[] args){

    System.out.println("This is my first program!");

  }

}

Place that code into a file and save it as MyFirstProgram.java (notice the correspondence).
6. Now it gets tricky, you will have to go Start > Run > Command (or cmd instead of command I don't know how ME works). Form there you will need to move to the directory in which you saved your file. The two commands you should know to move around are "cd" and "dir." "cd" stands for change directory and allows you to move up or down a level. "cd .." moves you up a level. For example you are in c:\java\ and you type "cd .." you will be moved to c:\ if you now type "cd java" you will be in c:\java\. "dir" lists all the files in the directory. There is a help command so if you type help it will lets know what to do.
7. Now that you are in your directory you can issue the command "javac MyFirstProgram.java" which will compile your program into bytecode if there are no problems with the code and your path variable is set. If the program gives you any output other than simply running and exiting you have a problem and might need to either recheck your code of fix your path variable. The error given will let you know which.
8. Believing that the program exited sucessfully you will now be able to enter the "dir" command and see not only MyFirstProgram.java but also a file MyFirstProgram.class. If you see this program issue the command "java MyFirstProgram" and your program will run.
9. From here I recommend reading Thinking In Java and doing all the example programs, and then trying your own. After that you will have a better idea of where to go next, and you can always come back here to ask a question on anything you have a problem with.

So... Now we have completed java and we can start with Python, I have never run Python windows but know how it works so I can give you some advice.

1. Download and install active python, this page gives really good instruction: http://diveintopython.org/installing_python/windows.html
2. Setup the path variable for python.exe unless this has been done by the installer (same as for java).
3. Get a text editor (same as for java).
4. Write a program (this is a lot easier than in java)

print "My First Program"

save the file as MyFirstProgram.py (only the extension is important, the ".py" the other coincidence is just conincidence).
5. Go to the command line again (same as for java) Start->run->cmd and the "cd" to the directory when you saved your program.
6. Type "python MyFirstProgram.py"
7. Go to http://www.python.org/topics/learn/non-prog.html and then read though some of the tutorials and follow there instructions. http://www.python.org is a good site for python related information.

So now you have what you need to get started unless I made a glaring error in my instructions. I would again recommend Java over Python as Java is a very stong language and well typed (if you make some blunders you will know why), where as python allows you to code in a sloppier fashion (this is good if you know what you are doing but when you are beginning can lead to you learning some bad habits).

If you have any questions don't hesitate to come here and ask, we are always willing to help.

Good luck,



-Dan-

Hi thanks for all your help but my modem is really slow and cuts off within 2 hours and i cant download the program you recommended, is there any way to stop the pc from going offline or is it hopeless?

You can get a download manager (google for it) which will be able to save parts of a downlaod file. When your modem goes offline it'll save where it was up to and resume download next time you connect.