Topic: Tricky problem fishing for clients

I work as a graphic designer at a newspaper. I design newspaper ads for many of the small/local businesses.

I am ready to start doing a little web design work on the side. I used to do some web design where I lived previously, but since I have moved, I have waited until I'm all settled. But now I feel that I am ready to jump back in.

As I design some of the paper ads, I notice some small businesses that are obviously 'designing' their own promotional materials. They may bring in brochures, flyers, etc so that I can use some of the graphics and copy in the paper ad. These materials are definitely not 'professional' work. Many probably don't have websites and a few do have websites, but they are horrible! BINGO! Potential clients, right?!

The sticky part as I see it is I am discovering clients through the use of my "day job." I do plan on avoiding mixing the two occupations: as in not doing anything related to web design while at the paper ... and not doing anything related to paper ad design while I am doing web design. However, the fact that I am finding potential clients through my work at the paper just sends off little alarm bells in the back of my mind.

There is one business I have my eye on, and I am ready to approach these folks. I was just wondering if y'all could pass along any advice about this. I believe a great way to get my foot in the door is to let the business know that I was the one that did their newspaper ad. (Side note: the businesses don't deal directly with me; they do all their stuff through the paper's salespeople. So the businesses have no idea who I am. However, I do get a lot of very positive feedback from the businesses via the salesfolks. The businesses are definitely happy with my ad designs.) If the business liked my paper ad, then I can assure them I can do the same thing for a web site ... or maybe even brochures and such ...

So ... the questions are:

1. Is there anything "legally" or "morally" wrong with my finding clients through my day job.

2. I believe mentioning that I did the business's paper ad would be a great way in. Is this a good tactic or not?

Thanks ...

I'll give my take in reverse order

2 - Anything that give you an initial foot in the door is positive! It's always easier to expand business with an existing client than getting work from a brand new client.

1 - Legally wrong? It might very well be...

However, the fact that I am finding potential clients through my work at the paper just sends off little alarm bells in the back of my mind.
And right you are to listen to them!

Ask yourself these questions:

- First, does the company where you work do any web-work at all? Or, do they have partnership/business relations with a web-company? If they do, they would most certainly frown angrily at you if you grabbed work from their clients and steered into your own "moonlighting". What you are supposed to do in a case like this is to sell the webidea to the client and then pass them on to the right department. Personally I might even fire someone that did this if I ran a company and came across stuff like this.

- Second, Is there anything your employee contract that mention this or similar things.

- If you've been at the paper for a while, isn't there anyone you could ask?
The only reason not to ask is if you've decided to do this regardless if it's right or wrong.

Otherwise you can get an "Ok, as long as it doesn't interfere with your day job", they might even like it since it forms a stronger personal tie between your department and the client that the paper can benefit from (if the client is happy with the web-part of course).

Or you can get a "No way, they are our clients, hands off! Besides we want you to be devoted to our job, not split between two jobs." That way you know that you are on thin ice and should stay hands off = no problems.

The third option is that they want you to do it in their name as part of your job. Then you should negotiate a raise!

Morally wrong?
Well, the best way to answer that is to put yourself in your companys shoes and think of how you would react if you found out something like this.
Generally, if something makes you uneasy thinking of it, it probably is against your personal moral standing.

Personally I'd be up front with this. Either ask, or hands off it it makes you uneasy.

/Dan

{cell 260}
-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Thanks for the reply!

My paper does not have a web department, so that point you brought up is moot. It was a good point, though.

I do plan on asking my boss, probably later in the week. I just wanted to hear a few thoughts from others before I approached the boss. I honestly have no idea how the boss will react. Provided that I make it clear that my work on the day job and my work on my night job will be totally and completely separate, then I doubt he will have a problem. He is very hands-off, let you do your own thing kinda person, which is a huge plus!

I guess my main question has to do with the use of my newspaper ads as a foot in the door. I designed the ads, so do I have any rights to use them as my own private "sale" pieces? Or does the newspaper "own" the pieces .. or does the client "own" the pieces? This grey area, as I see it, is what set off my alarm bells. Is my work really mine? I guess this could be a good question to ask the boss, but I just wanted y'all's take on it too ..

BeeKay: DmS is right that you might be on thin ice by 'stealing' clients but you could turn this to your benefit. I'm suprised the web design dept aren't already chasing these people (as it would make an awful lot of sense) so you could get some credit refering these people to them and if business took of it might be a good opportunity to move sideways into an expanding section of the company and really make your mark. So do express your interest in this area and make contacts and see how it goes.

Although you hould try and exploit all the links you can to get clients work is a grey area and it would depend on how the management felt and what your contract says so ask around and do your homework.

I would have thought that you would be able to use ads you've made as long as the client and/or the paper were cool with that but I couldn't see why there should be a problem (the photographers will want to use pictures they take so see what they do) as long as the copyright is explicit.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ack, thppppt!!

I'm obviously not making myself understood. That's quite all right, though. No big deal. Was just looking for some pointers before diving in is all.

Thanks for your time anyways

BK

going back a few tears ago i worked for a company in england that had me sign some intellectual property clauses in my contract...

the key points were

1. i had to disclose anywork i had copyrighted prior to this date.
2. make them aware of anywork likely to be copyrighted by myself in the immediate future.
3. anywork i did whilst in their "time" was their copyright, or works that were derived from their sources (i.e.) the situation that you are in now.

if the artwork is supplied by the client then i would have thought either

a.copyright belongs to original artist and is licensed to client
b.the client brought the whole kaboose and owns copyright.

as for the advertisements that you created i am pretty sure that the newspaper would own the rights.

so possible ideas to check out first.

if you are going to sell webdesign part time,,,

talk to clients about using their artwork or the original artist as the conditions of his license to client may preclude you using his images for other reasons, by using your ad's you are incorporating his artwork (make sense?) he may have a web design business and licensed his artwork to the client for use in newspaper only, and you using his artwork in the advertisments as a sales pitch could lead you into problems that way..

talk to your boss about using the ad's you created, heck he may even push the idea and you could get work from the paper aswell.

as long as there is no conflict of interest i think it should be ok, but check on the background a bit more...

good luck



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 05-27-2002).]