Topic: Consultant

Im in a rather unorthodox situation, at least for me anyway. I've been hired as a consultant for a NY based company in which I sit in on the meetings between this company and the web design company. The idea was for me to offer my 'expert' advice to aviod them being snowballed. Now we had our third meeting and the way the company operates is a bit funny to me. The companies business practices are different then mine, but thats understandable. Their a company while I'm a college kid who can draw.

What really bothers me about the situation is the company structure. At all three different meetings a different representitive has meet with me and the client. To make matters worse they had no previous knowledge of past meetings, so each meeting was as if it was the first. I've tried several times to get in touch with the company. I first called the first representitives cell phone but it didn't exist. Then after calling the company I was passed around for a while and finally given to someone else that I've never spoken to. The guy was completely clueless as to who my client or I was, not only that but NO ONE knew who either of us were.

The problem is, their work is very good. This is my first job as a consultant and the last thing I want to do is get my client involved in a company that has shady business practices. I also don't want to show my inexperience by plugging myself. These guys are a fairly big web design company and I did hint that I would be very happy designing this website but the boss kind of played it off as though he wanted it to be handled by a more well known designer. I have to admit I was a tad offended, but I'm 19 making $135 an hour negotiating on behalf of my client, so I wasn't that offended.

They know I'm inexperienced, but the also know I'm pretty good at what I do. I don't want to come off as some inexperienced kid because I have a great oppurtunity here to make some better money down the line. Would I be better off suggesting another company that I have worked with and know a little bit better? This is going to be a fairly expensive project requiring many many man hours. I don't want to intrust it to a company that doesn't remember meeting with me three times. Maybe I'm being to defensive, I mean why should the company know who I am. I haven't done anything worth bragging about, but they should still know who the company is, right?

Grrrr being inexperienced sucks. Advice please? :sigh:



-Jestah
Cell 277

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

This is exactly what I've been saying to myself for the past few days Ini.

I would estimate this project at a few hundred man hours easily. The company I'm currently consulting is starting a website from scratch and they are looking to make a big impression. I think if I was to take on the project I would be rather overwhelemed. No doubts about it, I know my limitations. This design firm does excellent work and have worked on large scale projects before, but if this an indication of how they do business I have a feeling I know what type of work to expect. If I'm not able to be doing the work, then I don't want it to be a reflection of my consulting. The problem I see is the man up stairs (boss) has seen the firms portfolio and knows exactly what type of work they've done previously.

I just don't want to chance it. Maybe I'll make some phone calls tonight and let them know how I feel.

-Jestah
Cell 277

[This message has been edited by Jestah (edited 05-29-2002).]

Hmm, has your client signed a contract with these people yet, or are you still in the process of letting them try and sell you their servies? If your client is a client of theirs, then they should have a contact person assigned, a "Project Manager" as they're called. It might be that you're still dealing with the "Business Developers" (which is really just a fancy way of saying "salesman". Apologies to anyone who's got that title now! No offense meant. ;-)

Now, if you've not signed any contracts with this web bureau yet, it may be that they're not sure your client is for real, they make lots of calls, and sign not so many contracts. Hopefully once they've signed you on you'll have a designated contact person. The first phase to be contracted and completed should be the "Specification Phase", figure maybe 80 hours to do a workshop or two, and *write* a detailed technical specification. If this is a big project, it could be 400 hours to do this properly. Once you have this spec written out (which you'll have to pay for, usually), then you can get a quote for the full work based off of that specification. They won't like it, but you own this spec, and could send it out for open bids if you chose.

An awful lot depends on just how "big" is big. 1000 hours is big, as is anything bigger than that! 250 hours is borderline for most of the big firms, and for a job that size you'd get better service from a smaller, hungrier firm, it would be an important contract to them instead of some dinky little $25,000 job, heh.

Let me know the staus, signed contract or whether we're still in the pre-sale mode, it makes a difference in how you should expect them to behave. If it's pre-sale still (no signed contract), try and get some contacts at previous clients, you want to find out not just whether they make pretty websites, but also how smoothly it all went in the opinion of a prior client.

<endnote> Hah! I remember, was it only a few months ago? When 2 minutes of typing cost my clients $5.00. Now I have to work a little more sensibly, so 2 minutes of typing only costs people $3.00, what a bargain! ;-)

Your pal, -doc-

Jestah: My take on it is that they are paying you (very nicely - I think that has proved to me that my future isn't in education!!) as a consultant and things would get messy if you also pitched for the job designing the site (hell we should really have an Asylum design team!!) - I know a lot of people wouldn't think twice about doing something like that but it is hardly the 'Way of the Asylum'. If you aren't happy with the way the design firm is going about things the report it to your boss with some recommendations like:

1. Inform them you aren't happy and perhaps they will buck their ideas up.

2. Put this out to tender and see if other firms will be prepared to make a better pitch for this (if you feel confident then ask your boss if you can resign as consultant and pitch for the job).

Your boss may be sitting there thinking that they don't like the way this firm are doing business but if you haven't complained then it may just be the way things are.

Do you have access to their portfolio and permission to contact former clients to see if they were happy not only with the final product but with the way they conducted themselves?

Just my take on the things.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I really appreciate all of the replies!

Thats a big portion of the problem, Doc. We don't have a signed contract and while I've made suggestions about going with another firm, he seems pleased with what he's seen from the company. I think one of the problems is he's a techno-weenie. What am I saying, thats why I have a job! We can't come to a contract because when we go to these meetings theres a new guy waiting for us each time! It's beyond frustrating. Each new guy hasn't been informed of what was gone over previously and a good portion of that time is explaining it.

Your absolutely right Emps, I was hired as a consultant not a developer. I hinted that I was interested but to be realistic I'm not capable of working on anything this big as of yet. I estimate the project to be 500+ hours and I simply don't have enough contacts in the field to delegate that kind of work out and still function!

The battle plan as it now stands is to give them a call tomorrow morning and set up a meeting next week. At the meeting I'll let them know I'm not a happy camper and I expect a few changes. I'll let them know I have a list of NY firms that I know can handle the job and handle it the way I expect it to be handled and see if that motivates them. I want to get the project underway with a responsible firm ASAP.

Of course this leads to the bigger problem! The more efficient and responsible the company, the less Im needed. The less Im needed means less money ... Damn.

-Jestah
Cell 277

Oh I called previous clients earlier last week. They pretty much all said the same thing, impossible to deal with, fabulous results. So I'm wondering if this is going to cause more headaches then its worth.

-Jestah
Cell 277

Hi there :-)

Summary:
Your job:
"offer my 'expert' advice to aviod them being snowballed"

Your main experience so far:
"At all three different meetings a different representitive has meet with me and the client. To make matters worse they had no previous knowledge of past meetings, so each meeting was as if it was the first."

Your references state:
"impossible to deal with, fabulous results."

Your boss feelings:
"while I've made suggestions about going with another firm, he seems pleased with what he's seen from the company."


My thoughts:

1 - You offering to do the work? No. Simply because that's not what you're hired to do in this situation.

2 - Sum up everything you have so far in a clear and fact filled brief report. Include a recommendation based on the facts. You can add personal feelings based on your experience, but keep that separate from the facts. This recommendation should include the actions needed if the desicion is to go with this firm.

- If the portfolio work makes your boss drool, make sure he/she gets a notion of what the references said.

- You need to cut out whomever is running these meetings from the design-company, demand ONE contact person with a mandate to negotiate a deal.

- Make sure the contracts include key points that has to be signed by both parties during the project before it can continue on an erronous path.

- Demand one project manager from their side that will be you contact point, this goes for your side as well. One person on each side should manage all key desicions.

A sure recepie for disaster is when "inspired people" start calling developers/designers with suggestions during production. All changes after the requirement phase must be handled in a tight, controlled fashion.
The first key-point should be after the business- and requirement documents are done, after this the production phase can start. Keep an extreamly close look on what happens during production.

- Get involved early in the creation of the test documents, your people will use these during tests and you must understand them. Make sure that all the requirements is met with a mesurable test, otherwise there is no way to decide when the delivery can be accepted.

In short, plan it, then follow the plan.

There's loads more to this but I hope this helps as a start
/Dan

{cell 260}
-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

Great reply Dan.

Whats been said is pretty much where I'm at now. I woke up early this morning so I could get a clear idea of what I want to say when I stop by later today. I'm not the best writer as most of you know, so I need to take extra time to write in a way thats easy to understand and doesn't look as though I was completely uneducated. I'm going to submit a report to the big guy most likely today, but my sister has her sr. prom today, so if I can't then tomorrow. I'll let them know that I was hired for consultation and thats exactly what I'm doing.



-Jestah
Cell 277