Topic awaiting preservation: Doing Jesus (Page 1 of 3)

Don?t do Jesus!

WARNING AHEAD

Side Affects: Side affects of doing Jesus include various personality and perspective changes ranging from massive euphoria to constant attempts to cleanse your self. Doing Jesus does not allow you to think and constantly blocks the brain of all independent thought. Other side effects include trying to perfect your self of all things straying away from Jesus. These are all long term side effects that stay with you for the rest of your use of Jesus.

Health Risks: Health Risks may include ingestion of more of The Body of Jesus, and occasionally The Blood of Jesus. There are no long term health risks other than repeating the above almost every Sunday.

Other Names: Jesus, Christ, The Holy One, Savior, and The Lord.

Parents Read: Jesus has formed a massive cult of followers ranging from all ages. Some children are even born under the influence of Jesus. 24/25 Americans have done or are still under the influence of Jesus.

Cost: Almost all Jesus doers pay ranging from their soul to their ability to think for themselves, some even pay their life.

Jesus is probably the most growing delusional drug, lowering the intelligence of many people everyday. Jesus can be very persuasive and convincing. Doing Jesus provides hope for your lives. It is highly advised that if you try Jesus at some point in your life that you talk it over with individuals that you love and trust and that have had some kind of thought over why they have chosen their stance on Jesus. If you do not take your decision seriously you could be making a decision that will haunt you for the rest of eternity.


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Prying open my third eye.

InSiDeR: I'm sure quite a few people might find that offensive but not as many as those who wouldn't find it very funny though

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Well if someone is offended by it I apologuise. And if someone who is a mad sci and is offended by it, feel free to lock it .

While I agree on the fact that it's not all that funny, if anyone actually finds that *offensive* then they've got bigger problems than being offended

DL: Ahhhhh but we aren't the ones who are going to be offended by it

InSiDeR: No need to lock it for not being funny - just consider it a bit of a heckle from the audience

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

:razz:

Emp - obviously.

Actually I find Christian jokes to be pretty offensive when they talk about people of faith not being able to think for themselves. That's ignorant and/or just a plain hateful thing to say. Pretty offensive is a very relative term though. How can something I consider to be the fruit of ignorance be very offensive? I just take offense to meanness. Precisely why I've never lumped InSiDeR into the retarded lazy white upper middle class haxor leet dillhole wannabe category like so many others rushed to do. (No, that wasn't self righteousness, it was spiteful meanness for the threadstarter. I now consider the aforementioned rushers to be quick character studies, kudos.)

Jason

edit: typo'd "ignorance"

[This message has been edited by JKMabry (edited 07-30-2003).]

Maybe that should be a topic for debate.
Can Christians think for themselves?
I've had some pretty interesting, non-lethal discussions about it.

Can people that watch TV think for themselves? There's a debate for you.

Jason

Well, I can think for myself, and as most people know around here, I'm Christian.

Can people who use photoshop really think for themselves? Or are all their apparently original creative acts really confined within extremely narrow and pre-defined parameteres. Just like being a Christian in fact. Sure Christians can think for themselves, they have just chosen to think and act a certain way.

I certainly see a lot more happy and contented Christans in this world then non-Christians. Maybe choosing to not let your free-thinking and acting mind run riot is a good thing. I see the results in this world of that free-thinking you promote... and frankly, what a mess we have made of everything. There is freedom and happiness within discipline.

For some reason people have always jibed them for being this way. Well they have chosen to believe and obey their god. I wonder why that would bother you so much. That's like picking on the guy in school, with the glasses who was a bit of a square, always smart, obedient... was such an annoying goodie, goodie, and always did his homework and got all the answers right. There was never anything wrong with him. The problem was and apparently still is with you.

Offensive? nah.. Ignorant? ..definately.

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 07-30-2003).]

*looks up at Rameseseees*

ahem, what are you doing on my ISP??

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Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight.

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Proverbs 3:5-6

Trust in the light with all your heart for when you flip the switch you know it will come on. It always has before, that's the way it goes.

And God doesn't burn out

Not saying I know completely how God, or a light switch and bulb work, but I've tested them both and know how they work enough to have faith in them both. I don't lean on my own understanding of them, I lean on the fact that they've always worked.

I can study God or electrical circuits and find out more about them. As I do I study and test, the more comfortable I become with the object of my study, the more I understand how it works.

Jason

CountefeitBacon:

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Well, I can think for myself, and as most people know around here, I'm Christian.

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Maybe you just think you can think for yourself Nah, just kidding... But a question here is, what does being a christian mean in your case? Do you ever consciously break the laws of your religion when your free thinking tells you it´s reasonable - or are there never even conflicts like that?


XPirex:

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I certainly see a lot more happy and contented Christans in this world then non-Christians.Maybe choosing to not let your free-thinking and acting mind run riot is a good thing.

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Maybe. Freedom can be a burden. To choose a very cheap example: I can see how I would have been happier in school when, instead of thinking "why does this guy get all the girls", I would have thought "You´re going straight to hell, sinner". Or how it would be easier to accept you´re going to die someday, when you have faith in going to heaven.
Personally, I favorize the way of going through intellectual and emotional development to impose limitations on the self, over the blind obedience that stems from being brought up with rules that are not to be questioned.

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I see the results in this world of that free-thinking you promote... and frankly, what a mess we have made of everything.

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And I guess you have also seen some of the results of blind faith - if not consult a history book - it´s a two-edged sword, just like freedom.

The idea of generalizing one or two billion christians is ridiculous anyway.

IME there are lots of people who say they´re christian and believe in god, maybe they wear a little cross on a necklace, or even go to church every sunday because that´s how it´s done in the family, but it has no significant impact on their daily thoughts and actions...

On the other extreme there are the zealots, fortunately much smaller in numbers, for whom "doing jesus" has become some kind of prescription drug to keep their psyche stable. People who, when asked for their opinion on something, answer with a bible verse and think that this is proof beyond all doubt... [edit]quisja, this wasn´t directed at you. You posted while I was typing.[/edit]

And of course, as I have come to learn there are also perfectly reasonable, nice, educated people, who have put a lot of thought into what they believe in, and are always ready to critically discuss their religion and it´s implications with anyone who´s interested.

Most people will be somewhere inbetween...
Apart from the fanatics, the ability and the will to free thinking may be dependent on other things - or as JKMabry wisely put it:

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Can people that watch TV think for themselves? There's a debate for you.

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[edit]Oh, wait. I watch TV and I can think for myself. So that settles that [/edit]

Peace out.

[This message has been edited by MW (edited 07-30-2003).]

The thing is....this is being made into far more than it should.

This is a harmless silly joke. Was it funny? No.

Was it ignorant? Perhaps. Not overly so.

Was it offensive? Can't see how it could be.

It seems to me that anytime somone decides to poke a little fun at christianity, it turns into a big issue (not just here, in real life too...). Islam, buddhism, scientology....they're all open targets. But, god forbid, some poke some easy light hearted fun at christians....

X

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I certainly see a lot more happy and contented Christans in this world then non-Christians.

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Bullshit. It is that very mindset with ALL religions that I find arrogant to the extreme. Notice please I said "ALL."

As a Christian myself, I didn't take offense nor do I think it is ignorance. Just a view from someone who chooses not to believe in the Christ. With the blood and wine part it seem more aimed at catholics.

I know the bible has a verse that says " the path to heaven is narrow ", but that doesn't mean Christians are narrow minded or not open minded. Some great thinkers are believers. I am sure some free-thinkers found Christianity



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 07-30-2003).]

The fact that a believer is "happier" than a non-believer is no more proof that god(s) exist(s) than the fact that a drunken person is "happier" than a sober person proves beer is sacred.

... Or something like that... I don't remember exactly how it goes.

BTW, about the original post, it may not be funny (largely because it's not original, both the content and the format have been done for everything out there), but I wouldn't even start to consider it a legitimate argument for any kind of religious debate (unless you're trying to see who can come up with the most ridiculous argument).
Don't get me wrong, I am very anti-religious, but the comment about people not thinking for themselves can't be attributed towards a particular religious group. I've seen approximately the same percentage of people who choose not to think for themselves to the fullest extent possible no matter how you divide people up into groups. Be it religious, political (although I haven't looked at this one much), race, nationality, or anything else you can think of.

Just my 2.5 cents

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Maybe you just think you can think for yourself Nah, just kidding... But a question here is, what does being a christian mean in your case? Do you ever consciously break the laws of your religion when your free thinking tells you it´s reasonable - or are there never even conflicts like that?

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What does being a Christian mean to me?

Well, to me it means that I beleive that their is God (and only one God), he had a son, Jesus, who died "for my sins," and that all can be forgiven through him. I try to live my life in a way that would imitate God, which I of course fail miserably at.

Do you ever consciously break the laws of your religion when your free thinking tells you it´s reasonable - or are there never even conflicts like that?


Hahaha...Of course their are. All the time. I'm always rationalizing "un-Christian" behavior and thinking all the time. On another note, I wouldn't blindly follow anything, so why should religion be any diffrent. It hasn't blinded me to anything, or made me "not think," it has merely changed my viewpoint on some topics, and some beliefs. Obviously, something that would blatantly oppose my religion I would try and research the best I could so that I'd know why a Christian wouldn't agree with it. If I don't find any reason not to beleive in it, then I will.

*refers to InSiDeR's original post

maybe whoever wrote this meant it to be sarcastic and derogatory
but it is so full of truth to a real truth-seeker that it is more sad than funny

hahaha!

*jeremiah was a bullfrog

I have just made the free thinking decision to go to the store and buy myself some chicken. Yeh this feels good... must do this again... soon

"If I don't find any reason not to beleive in it, then I will."

Personally, I wait for something to be proven to me. Just because there's no reason to *not* believe that the universe is one of a billion universes encased in another few billion universes etc doesn't mean I believe that. Nor do I believe beyond a doubt that there is a god, personally. I call myself atheist, because I feel that nothing has proven to me that there is a god. Then again, nothing has proven to me there isn't, so until then, I say "screw it all" and wait.

Way back when, people believed the earth was flat. "Why the heck not, there's no reason it couldn't be!" (point is, "god" is out of our frame of observation at the moment (imo) and so we really can't say a damn thing about his existence. Sure sure, people can talk about miracles and all of that stuff, but I won't get into that.)

I was not referring to 'blind faith'..I'm sure many of these people have givin much thought and deliberation to their beliefs. But I don't want to get into this fruitless debate.

I'm gonna eat my chicken and have an ice cold German beer.

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 08-03-2003).]

I sometimes don't understand how athiest choose not to see the beauty of the world and not know that we are a small part of a larger picture of a greatness. If you look at the earth from space, its so beautiful with it blue oceans, green valleys and hills, terrains, and great high mountians and its thousands of landscapes that take your breath away. Not to mention the beauty of the ice & snow when it covers parts of the earth. We truly were meant to live in a paradise. We earthlings have taken the earth for granted. We are polluting beauty that was meant for us. So if a God who happens to call himself Jesus is responsible for all this, what is wrong with believeing in him? Who else besides Jesus has proclaimed what he has? Who could wear his shoes up till now and what other great person should we follow in example?



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 08-01-2003).]

I just created the alchemical formula for turning lead into gold... But I can't prove it to you even though lots of people have written about it. You just have to believe. Seems a little far fetched? What you have described, Jade, is something that everyone can see. We just don't see the link between Jesus and this beautiful world we are in a hurry to fill. It's a possibility, I concede that, but it can't be proven. I don't need to associate everything wondrous with an ethereal power. Knowing nature is enough for me.

In regards to the "non-thinking" Xians. I don't think the direction of the humor above (Yes, I found it funny) is pointed at the lack of thought in Xians lives, but the lak of challenge they present themselves. I challenge my faith every chance I get. I look at things and how they works and how my faith deals with them. If ever I find something that outright goes against my beliefs but I find that it fits in the reality of my life... Guesss what? I'll change faiths. You can do that you know. If you never challenge yourself how do you know you're REALLY following your faith? How do you deepen your beliefs and strengthen your faith, not only in what you believe but, in yourself. I think this is where the tidbit atop the thread is going. In many of the arguments here and IRL it degrades to "because the Bible told me so" or "Just because" If you can't answer a challenge to your faith either you aren't versed enough in that faith and need these challenges to deepen that faith, or you're following the wrong faith. "I don't know" is an acceptable answer as long as you take that knowledge and learn from it. That's why I challenge my faith, so I can learn what it is to be a follower of the belief and deepen my respect for the things I believe in. I accept the possiblities of things I don't necessarily believe in when I can't discount them or prove them. I might not choose to believe them, but I understand that they are there and can try and find out how they fit in my belief. Faith is not/should not be a static thing. It should change and grow, evolve (as it were) as you learn new things and challenge yourself.

This is how I see some Xians as "non-thinking". They aren't stupid or unable to make their own choices, they just don't know how to believe.




[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 08-01-2003).]

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I sometimes don't understand how athiest choose not to see the beauty of the world and not know that we are a small part of a larger picture of a greatness

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Now *that* was a very ignorant statement.

What gives you the idea that being an atheist means not seeing such things?

Just because I don't happen to think that this "larger picture" is a god of any sort has nothing to do with my appreciation of the beauty of the world and the universe that holds it.

In fact, quite frankly, I think that by removing the limit of dogmatic religious teaching I see a far *bigger* picture.

And I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but I'm pretty confident that it's not jsut a bunch of atheists who are polluting the planet
I've seen a christian or two driving cars before




[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-01-2003).]

question for GD then, and also in reference to an earlier comment by MW:

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In regards to the "non-thinking" Xians. I don't think the direction of the humor above (Yes, I found it funny) is pointed at the lack of thought in Xians lives, but the lak of challenge they present themselves. I challenge my faith every chance I get. I look at things and how they works and how my faith deals with them. If ever I find something that outright goes against my beliefs but I find that it fits in the reality of my life... Guesss what? I'll change faiths. You can do that you know. If you never challenge yourself how do you know you're REALLY following your faith? How do you deepen your beliefs and strengthen your faith, not only in what you believe but, in yourself.

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Personally, I favorize the way of going through intellectual and emotional development to impose limitations on the self, over the blind obedience that stems from being brought up with rules that are not to be questioned.

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what exactly makes you think that i, or JK, or CFB, bugs, etc., DON'T question and test things? sure there are some christians who follow blindly, but i'm quite confident that most people (whether religious or not) are sheep. its amazing to me how many people who are so set on not following a religion because they want to "think for themselves" are simply following the crowd and what Mtv says...

chris


KAIROSinteractive

GD

I can understand your approach and in a way we are the same in searching for truth. For some who feel they have met truth, they are seeking fulfillment of the truth in Jesus. I've heard to be near fulfillment is to be near ecstasy, sort of like being in a perpetual state of holy shock. To Christians, Jesus is a like big puzzle given to us to piece together. Some of us take years to figure out, maybe a lifetime, some not. Christians believe the nature of all things are due to God. So saying Christians can't think for themselves is so wrong. The God in us propels and compels us to seek truth with thought, sometimes away from God in hopes that we come to the conclusion ourselves to know who God is.

DL

I didn't mean athiest only pollute the earth. I know we all do. I was speaking as mankind in general.

In eliminating dogmatic religions, I am curious to know what "your far larger picture is"?



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 08-01-2003).]

Jade & Fig, to quote myself -

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This is how I see some Xians as "non-thinking". They aren't stupid or unable to make their own choices, they just don't know how to believe.

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I didn't specify an entire group, just some of the Xians I know and have met. Nor did I specify anyone in particular. If you have such a high opinion of yourselves that you assume I am talking about you when, in fact, I am speaking in general I can't do anything about that. The fact that there are those of you here that will actually discuss things here, proves that not all Xians are the same. It also isn't representative of the general Xian populous. To follow in your vein, Fig. What makes you think I'm following everyone else and watch MTV?

Nor did I say that Xians can't think for themselves. My experience with Xianity is that the rules aren't to be questioned. You aren't supposed to change things. You are supposed to follow what is taught by the church. The church is the only authority, beyond God, that can determine the direction of the faith. This is the primary reason that I am not Xian. Maybe you should finish posts before reacting, eh?

Jade - As mentioned above, I didn't say that Xians can't think for themselves. If Xians are so open to learning and facing challenges to their faith, why do they react so poorly to discussions? Why do most (just for you, Fig) Xians refuse to bring any information from outside of the faith that supports the faith? It has less to do with challenging yourself than not seeing someone admit they don't know and trying to learn from that. When i state something and you can't relate it to your faith, instead of knee-jerking and say "just becuase" or something similar. Say " I don't know" and then go find out how it fits into your faith. Then come back with your answer and help me learn something too. This is the growth that I speak of.

There are plenty of Xians here who do this. So don't get all high and mighty that "not all Xians are like that". Well... No shit, Sherlock. The problem is that most of them seem to be. Everyone knows this, including other Xians. So insted of believing the worsst in someone why don't you assume that we're both talking about the "sheep" and alleviate some of this BS, okay?

Jade - Well, first tell me how you come to the conclusion that being an atheist means you don't appreciate the beauty of nature, or appreciate the fact that we are but a small part of a vast (limitless?) entity.

Religion tends to stress far too much self-importance on our species, and removes that sense of being so small and part of something so vast. How can you feel so small while at the same time expressing that 'god' finds you so important as to be involved in your daily life, or that 'god' even gives a hoot about our species at all?


{{edit - damn you GD, that's the 2nd time in a row you slipped a lenghty post in while I was typing

However, to add a little to GD's point - you may recall, Jade, that several months ago when there were all of the religious threads going around, I asked you a fair number of questions regarding your faith, and how you could resolve certain things that for me didn't make any sense, and about things that I found contradictory, and you basically refused to answer *any* of them. In fact you would usually respond with some sort of snide remark, or accusations of "attacking" you.
I think that is really a prime example of what GD is referring to.
}}



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-01-2003).]

no need to get defensive, and i did read your whole post GD, and i realized you weren't talking necessarily about me, just as i wasn't referring to you with the Mtv crowd. my comment was more aimed towards MW's comment. we all tend to unfairly generalize, the idiots stand out about the crowd and we remember them as how "those people" are. i'll forever hate texas tech fans for this very reason

you are grossly mistaken on your observations about "the church" tho. that may be true in something like the catholic church where the vatican is the be-all-end-all authority, but please don't take the catholic church as representative of christianity. there are some basic rules laid out in christianity as they are with any religion or faith, but its thru personal exploration that i develop my relationship with God, the key part of christianity that so many miss out on. i'll consult those older and wiser than myself when i have questions, and some things are quite clear cut whether people want to admit to themselves or not. however, my final decision on my actions is between myself and God.

chris



KAIROSinteractive

DL-44

I apologize to the extreme for my lack of expaining my faith in the past. Seeing how this has come up from you B-4. I sense your still a little miffed at me maybe. Can I make a wrong a right with you? I don't want to be ever accused of refusing to defend faith or explain it.

I don't think myself super knowledgable in matters of faith. Who knows everything about everything in general? Nobody. Nobody living on the planet for sure. For someone to make a statement that there is no God is guilty of thinking they know more that the rest of us. Or for that matter to even state Jesus is not God or responsible for our existance is lacking because it can' be proven that God isn't. No one can prove Jesus wasn't God. Who has the mindset to prove no God and where are the tools one uses to disprove it.

In regard to the nature and beauty of things of our beautiful planet, how can one not look at the awe of it and not know there is a doer of all. Humanity and all that it entails in itself is beautiful. When you look out at the stars, doesn't the yearning ever pull you like gravity, but its gravity of the soul. Don't you question why you are and wonder where you are going. How can an athiest appreciate the beauty of the world and think so highly of himself that he can judge where it all comes from.

I have noticed a lot of scientist or scholars are athiest. I think this stems from the fact that they feel so well educated and above the norm that they become their on little Gods. Out of all twelve apostles of Jesue there was only one scholar, it was Judas.

One looks at the world and doesn't believe in a "doer" just like I look at the world, Jade. I look out into the world and see so amny wonderful things that encompass many lifetimes worth of learning. Things that are wonderous and stunning and pull at the very essence of my being. I am connected to all of the everything through our mutual spirits. Myself to the stone, the water, and the sky, etc. etc. I don't profess to know more than you or less than you. one can see and appreciate beauty in all of it's forms without understanding it or knowing where it came from. No one knows where love comes from and yet it is one of the most buestiful and wonderful experiences I have ever had. I attribute it to my spiritual connection to my wife. I'm sure you attribute your love of others to God. Why on earth is it so difficult to step outside of yourself and see as other might see? Until you can do that you'll never undersand someone elses point of view. Your acceptance of other people's points of view just becomes meaningless words.

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I have noticed a lot of scientist or scholars are athiest. I think this stems from the fact that they feel so well educated and above the norm that they become their on little Gods.

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This, I think, has some merit but, that is an awfully large brush to paint with. Not to mention that there are plenty of people who refuse to believe in something that can't be proven to them. Faith is not a mystery to scientists either. Many scientists believe things that go against the flow of their peers, both religious and scientific. So we know scientists are capable of faith, and are capable of faith amongst people they consider to be their equals... so... that doesn't leave much in your arguement, does it?

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How can an athiest appreciate the beauty of the world and think so highly of himself that he can judge where it all comes from.

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Judging where it came from? You're the one that is part of an organization that purports to *know* exactly where and how it all came from, and has the audacity to try converting the rest of the known wolrd to their singular belief system, many times through violent or abusive means. But atheists are the ones who think too highly of themselves??

Scientists tend to try to figure things out. When they don't know, they study, experiment, explore. When they think they've figured it out, they share their knowledge. That is not say that there aren't scientists that suffer from severly inflated egos, but that is found in any walk of life.

I think you need to take a *serious* look at that statement Jade....

It begs me to ask - how can a christian appreciate the beauty of the world, and yet think so highly of themsleves to propose that "god" made such beauty for us?

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or someone to make a statement that there is no God is guilty of thinking they know more that the rest of us

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And in the same manner, the person who claims to know that "god" exists is guilty of the same thing.

Of course, I have *always* said that I am open to the possibility that I am wrong in my belief, but that I "know" that there is no god as surely as you "know" that there is one....



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 08-02-2003).]

jade: you really need to study your subject matter a bit more before making statements of fact that are easily disproved by a, as you called it, "scholar"

it doesn't really matter to me what you believe in or, how much faith you have in what you believe. to quote; "faith without works is dead". and what is work pertaining to faith? the struggle or, should i say quest, to assure yourself (not someone else) that your faith is not simlply an attempt to justify yourself against the ideals that you have been taught or have come to believe in. to quote, again, "if a man has faith, let him have it unto himself".

~ the farther you travel down the narrow path, the broader it becomes ~


jeremiah was a bullfrog

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I sometimes don't understand how athiest choose not to see the beauty of the world and not know that we are a small part of a larger picture of a greatness....In regard to the nature and beauty of things of our beautiful planet, how can one not look at the awe of it and not know there is a doer of all.

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An atheist can look at a flower and say, "Wow, the universe really created something beautiful here." (or "that's a nice flower" with no further thought on the matter.)

A believer in a and/or many gods can look at that same flower and say, "Wow, God created something beautiful here." (or "that's a nice flower" with no further thought on the matter.)

Or your average homeowner can look at that self-same flower and say "Get that ugly dandelion out of my yard!"

The fact of the matter is that whether you believe in a diety or not has nothing to do with appreciation of beauty in the world.

Awe comes from understanding that one is part of a vast universe (or multiverse if that floats your boat), small and part of something much grander than life on this little - albeit pretty - planet.

My $0.02 on that...

I was reading an article about death the other day and thought the comments were interesting from a priest name Father Corapi. In his experiences giving last rites, athiest say goodbye to their beliefs and ask to see a priest or minister, etc. when they are on their death bed. They accept God and some even the savior, Jesus Christ. Why do they fear death or what in their human nature gives into believing that there is a God b-4 their end. What do you think compels them to believe?
In Christianity, the belief is that if someone spends his whole lifetime doing his own will and has as many sins as the blades of grass on the entire earth and when he is dying asks for the mercy of God, even then God at that time doesn't abandon him, because God is so rich in mercy.



[This message has been edited by jade (edited 08-04-2003).]

I'm sure many do.

Many people of any faith throughout the ages have, in the face of adversity or uncertainty, turned away from their beleifs.

That is, once again, a statement that is reflective of human nature in general.

I would still like to hear how you reconcile the first point in my previous post....you made a rather rash statement, and it really calls for some explaining.