Preserved Topic: Hands-On, #1 with Google! (Page 1 of 1)

Hah! Oh, I love Google, especially when they treat me right, yep! I wasn't even aware of my current placements, I don't track these things too closely. This was pointed out by the folks over at http://www.activetechs.com/ - they spotted it first, and want to talk to me about advertising their photoshop training courses. So! What do you think, does this look like a good outfit to any of you folks? Lord knows I could use the money, but I'm real stubborn about these things, I don't advertise *anything* unless I think the product rocks. Please, give me your advice and gut feelings about this, I'd like your feedback on how I should proceeed with this.

#1 link! -> http://www.google.com/search?q=photoshop+training
#2 link! -> http://www.google.com/search?q=photoshop+tutorials

(Damn! I'm now officially pissed at Lynda Weinman and Peachpit Press! She *knows* me, and knows about the "Hands-On Tutorials" site, yet there they are in the number two spot, sporting my tagline on a series of books, what's up with that? Bastards. ;-)

Your pal, -doc-

I would say go for it Doc! What have you got to lose?



'Me no here. Me go bye. Leave me message. Me reply.'

Wolfen's Sig Site

Well now we have to go for Yahoo, and Ask Jeeves, then theres the dreaded *sigh* AOHELL

Doc: Well done - it was only a few days ago that it was at number 2!!! Advertising? Whatever you are comfortable with - those people look OK.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

I'd say go for it Doc .. you can see atleast what they are offering

cEll .::. 513

OK so I know from nuthin' but you get my 2 cents anyway....

I don't like it! Seems to me they're offering just waaaay tooo much...and when I see statements like:

"I began the class with no experience using HTML
or Dreamweaver and by lunchtime on the first day,
I had completed my first web page. I now own a
business developing websites and have been hired
to work for major company's IT Departments."

Geoff Brown - GBD, Inc

Well I really gotta shake my head...I'm guessing it was *after* lunch Geoff started his own business.

The formatting on the front page is completely outtawhack. Frankly... I don't see their presentation coming close to the work of yours that I've seen.... and If this page was put in Site reviews I think it would be shredded. Quite simply Doc I don't think they meet your standards and even tho' the money may be more than welcome...at what cost?

And personally these type of pitches drive me nuts; "Sign up four of your friends and get a HUGE discount on Training."
This is not the same as saying 'hey if you sign up at dreamhost mention my name.'

__________________________________________________________
Please, give me your advice and gut feelings about this, I'd like your feedback on how I should proceeed with this.
____________________________________________________________________

*My* gut says no.... *They* are not ready for *you!*

LOL I was going to comment what a nice, relaxing, professional looking website.


I only just briefly read through the training classes but I would suggest you getting the Hands-On feel. Ask to see an indepth outline of what the courses involve and see if its something you would like to support. Remember, the point of your tutorials are to teach. If you can steer eager looking students towards an education you personally support then your doing exactly what your trying to. And its money

-Jestah
Cell 277

Hmm, that's a tough one. I think if it's nothing more than an issue of morals, you shouldn't take the offer. If you need the money, though, then you should... and who could blame you, being a web designer when the job market is like it is?

But if it's just an issue of morals, then there are two ways you could advertise:

1. A recommendation of them and a link in your text.
I wouldn't think you'd want to do this because it wouldn't be *honest*... you've never heard of them before now, you couldn't possibly recommend them to other people in an honest way. It's just sort of wrong.

2. A banner ad: the typical method of advertisement.
I'm sure this is what they had in mind. But is it worth the integrity of your page? Then again, I *have* seen banner ads on some of your pages here and there in ozones.com, but generally it just makes you seem more corporate, like you're willing to sacrifice quality for money.

Then again, if it's a significant amount of money they're offering, option two doesn't really seem all that bad, now that I think about it. I'm not sure. The company *seems* ok to me, but I wouldn't know any better than you really... so think about the advantages and weigh them against the disadvantages, that's all I can say, I guess.

Hmmm... If ya need the money then sure. Go for it!

But you might be able to do something better. After all, you now have the top ranking sites for photoshop training and tutorials on google.

That's mighty impressive and excessively valuable but if anyone deserves the top ranks it's you!

You might be able to use this to do more than get paid advertising on your site. I suppose this greatly depends on what you'd want to do with it. You could transform Hands-On into something bigger and have the peace of mind that it'll get the kind traffic it deserves. Who knows.

I for one would want to try and make something from it myself. Then again, that would also depend on just how much money they were offering and what the conditions were. Are you talking pay per referral or flat rate?...

[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 06-07-2002).]

Get to know them like you do everyone else, Doc. Check their portfolio, and read their code.
Weigh what you learn about them against how much money they`re offering you, and decide if it will be the best thing for Hands-on.

trust your instincts, Doc. Don`t be seduced by the Dark side of the Source.

Dbob... You've been to the movies again! <lol>
"trust your instincts, Doc. Don`t be seduced by the Dark side of the Source.

Well I agree with some of what everyone else said...they came to you so they obviously feel they 'need' some tie to that google ranking they pointed out and you would offer them some degree of legitimacy. One of their partners 'spyglass studios' has a fairly large corporate portfolio...mostly FOX and AOL Time Warner with a few others tossed in. I dont see any problems with them as a company really the site design could be centered...that would be my main bitch.

About their course offerings, they seem to be hitting the same target items as newhorizons.com and other 'training' centers like that. I cant begin to speculate what kind of half-ass designers they might kick out but they are going to get training somewhere, why not there. I think if you are willing to pay $700.00 for a two day course in "Graphic Design" then you deserve exactly what you get.

If this serves your best interest Doc then I say go for it.

Don't do it Doc! Please, please, don't do it!

Though the money may be nice...you've always stood for something else in my mind...and that is the original idea behind the 'net...from the days when it was running free...

There are not many (if any...) anymore these days, who still 'support' this...most have 'sold out'...not you, too...

Sometimes living the ideals that you love are hard...and temptation lays around every corner...but remain true to who and what you are...it 'pays' in the long run...

Just my opinion, of course...feel free to decide as you will...after all, HandsOn is yours...but I think that is the point, isn't it? It's yours....and led so many here...I know, I'm one of them...

So please, don't do it...

This impassioned plea is brought to you by...



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 06-07-2002).]

Hey Doc, if you can make a few pennies off this little niche you've created, I say go for it man.

I know all this is a labor of love for you, but sometimes you gotta take what you can get. Its not like you'd be hocking Cuisinarts. Whatever you all think of the company, they help people get into designing web things.

Didn't we all start somewhere?

Hmm, tough call. I guess you'd need to see video of one of the classes to judge the quality.

I have to say that Hands-On was an influence on me. Quality tuts, fun attitude, no BS. No pop ups, no banners. Kinda amazing now that I think about it!

I like Dracusis' idea of building on the ranking. Build Hands-On into something bigger. And maybe make some money from it in your own way. Maybe a Design book? (Print on Demand?) It would bring in money and you'd have control of what goes into it. Or make the book a collaboration?

Great idea, nooPhella. The HandsOn book...that would be cool...and I would buy it...

Doc: I've had a bit more time to think about this so here are some thoughts:

1. You'd have to see at least some of the course materials and pos. get a second opinion from some of the experts here. If you are going to provide a link then I suppose you should be sure that it is good stuff - being #1 has its responsibilities.

2. As you are now number one it does give you certain 'powers' and it might be worth spreading some of the good stuff around by adding a links page and promoting those PS sites that you think are of the highest quality (it will increase their search engine ranking).

3. As people are more used to sponsored links this might be the place to throw a couple in - its a discrete way of doing things. But only if you are happy with 1.

4. Lets see what we can do about your Page Ranking position:
http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Software/Graphics/Image_Editing/Photoshop/FAQs,_Help_and_Tutorials/

You'll need even more links coming in from the top ranking sites but now you are #1 you have more stroke, esp. if you were going to go with point 2.

5. A book would be interesting - HandsOn PhotoShop with Doc Ozone!! I suspect this idea has been discussed on many a occasion.

6. Now if you actually search for the phrases you get slightly different results:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22photoshop%20tutorials%22 - #5 http://www.google.com/search?q=%22photoshop%20training%22 - #1

7. How about a new challenge - you are at 26 with the search term 'Photoshop'?:
http://www.google.com/search?q=photoshop&start=20

Just some random thoughts.

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

go Doc go!

Great input, Emps!!

About the book, Doc...I know you've done some thinking in this direction (I read somewhere on your site about it...even the introduction...). Perhaps you should seriously think about doing it...immortality in print is a great accomplishment...esp. when it is good...and HandsOn is good...with the right Artwork to support it, and your flambouyant style of writing would be a good seller IMHO...

I can see it now...in every computer design class...a copy of Doc Ozones HandsOn...with ear-marked pages and scratched up covers from over-use...

Where can I get my copy?

um.... this is a meek little unpopular comment, but:

HandsOn hasn't improved in a while... those are the same tutorials that led to the Asylum back in '99.... don't get me wrong, the tutorials rock, man... but I think it's time to add some more to that site...


Harmonizing new illusions...
ICQ: 67751342

Doc, I searched again and you are not #1 anymore!
http://www.google.com/search?q=photoshop+tutorials

the new #1 is:
http://www.grafx-design.com/phototut.html

It constantly changes. Yesterday our little Google-bomb project ith Mad Scientist had http://www.ozoneasylum.com up at the number three spot...today we're twelfth...

Koan 63, written on the wall of cell number 250:
Those who Believe
Can
Those who Try
Do
Those who Love
Live

No no, I've always been #2 for photoshop+tutorials, I'm #1 for photoshop+training. Petskull, you're right, the Hands-On archives are *way* out of date, I've been so busy on other things, it never seemed to climb up to the top of my list! Maybe if I can use this to make some extra bucks I can get around to updating, eh? I have a new tute concerning transparency techniques for the "Save for Web" option, I don't use any of the techniques outlined at H-O anymore, heh.

Your pal, -doc-

I'd say go with the advertising .. get them to send you info on the courses and stuff . its always nice to get post .
But then once the advertisements are in place, update the hell out of your tutorials, so no one will need the courses .. muh ha ha

I just thought of something .. Im pretty sure thats how I found your site years ago .. he he , I always wondered how I did, Ive never been one to use search engines much, I usually find new sites through links sections, that way they've been personally approved of enough for the author of the site to place a link.

Heh, I found a link to Docs HandsOn on the WebDevelopers site...and then I landed at the GN...and then here.

I wonder if that link is still there...

tks WS. =)

Further thoughts: The book could be an e-book. Or a one-time payment to a password-protected area with a bunch of tuts in it. Pay thru Paypal.

Advertise, and put some new trainnings..

Good Job Doc!!! I say, its your site and your call. The only type of ads I hate are the ones that blink really fast (which AdSubtract takes care of) or the sites that make you download some ad software to use the site (which I don't do and move on)

Your call.

H. O. Is what brought me here too. I actually came on a link from the VISI.com site. (I had them as a service provider till their dial up service went to crap.) I loved your work on their main page Doc and wanted to know who did that. Found out about H. O. ust before the Asylum came up. Been hooked since. Now that I think about it, I would support the H. O. book but maybe update the info with the tuts and maybe throw in some of the best work from the GN? Could that be a possibility?



'Me no here. Me go bye. Leave me message. Me reply.'

Wolfen's Sig Site

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/004691.html

Lol its not just google that points people here or through the normal channels either, have a look at this thread and look at the last post i made, i think its great...

kinda like saying doc's king of the hill at javascript and photoshop combinations.....just wonder who posted that and if they are from here...stand up and wave ya hand