Topic: Developing the Ozone "lost" pages, need feedback

White version:
http://www.ozones.com/lost/index.html

Orange version:
http://www.ozones.com/lost/index2.html

OK, I've been so infatuated with this whole "404 lost" page I worked on, I've been thinking about devloping it further and turning it into a real front-page interface. One of the problems I have with my current design is that there's no way to build in sub-level links to it, and I suspect that many people don't quite grasp the coolest things about it. (ie: the liquid design, the right/left justification, etc...)

So! That link above, try clicking on the main box in the middle, there's 3 different pages with very subtle alterations in the edges of the shapes, index2 has a shadow, index3 has a shadow and a highlight, the entry has neither.

I'm also wracking my brains trying to think about a nifty idea for how to display that window when it opens, it'd be nice if it grows, or fades in, or... ? There are of course a few issues with simply rise out of the bottom interface, the gradient, and the edges make things complicated.

Ooh look! 45 degree corners, monotype fonts! Any other "don't do this" rules I could work into this? ;-) perhaps ::::links:::: or something, heh. Hmm, I just noticed this also, at full screen it looks kind of silly. I'll make a point of breaking it all free and letting it live closer to the center of the screen vertically.

Your pal, -doc-



[This message has been edited by DocOzone (edited 05-07-2002).]

Ha! That's pretty good. I like it. You could have it outline itself and then fade in. Or better yet, for real cheese value, make it slide out from the center with the classic Star Trek "shweee" sound.
Love the mountains, by the way.

Doc: Great page (so much effort for something that people should never see - I like that concept!!).

Well I prefer index3.

How to make the panel appear? I'd like to see it either rise up from behind the furtherst mountain range and slide down into position or better slide in from the left at the same speed as the slowest moving element and then slide into position when it gets to the middle.

Other than the odd random DHTML thingy (like a bird of prey drifitng through the sky or roadrunner) to make visits just slightly different - I can't think of else.

Emps

I really thing the transitions between the spereate scrolling directions should be smoother. It didn't bother me untill you added the interface on top, but now I fear it'll be distracting with content up.

Oh and I'm all about index3

Oh yeah, I never realized that about the direction transitions, it does need to be smoother on this one! Good call. I want the open/close movements to be *really* fast, fast enough so I could run through the animation for each link clicked, (which I plan to load remotely.) Too sow and it'll get really annoying, real fast! :-) I hadn't really thought of having it interact with the mountains, I was getting too hung up on them as background elements and the interface as foreground. I'm also leaning towards #3 with the minor 3D elements added in, I'll have to make sure it doesn't get too busy once I clean up all the edges and add the necessary details though.

I like the idea of the outlines appearing first, cheshire cat, makes me think of. I might have the top links swoop down and then up, with the window fading in between them both, maybe? I'll keep working on the look for now, this will remain mostly a Photoshop project until I'm happy with the little details. If it clicks like I hope, I may modify it and make it my new front page, I *really* enjoy this page!

Your pal, -doc-

I had to look at that thing a couple times before I realized there was a difference between the three versions. Now that I have seen the difference, I would have to agree with the general trend here (no. 3).

It's a really nifty page, but I just have one comment (please don't kill me for being terribly nit-picky ). Last summer I spent a few weeks driving around the American southwest, so I can appreciate the scenery on this page. The different layers, though, just don't seem to fit together for me. I think it's the butte in the second layer (from the front). You won't find buttes in areas where there are mountains like the ones you have in the far layers. Or maybe you would--I'm not an expert on the American southwest.

Boy, that's so trivial it's embarassing. It's a very nice page, and I was amazed the first time I saw it (being the lowly newbie that I am).

Suho1004: Its not trivial - its part of creating an illusion. DL originally brought up the same point when this was first discussed:
www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum1/HTML/004152.html

Its just the odd way the Doc bends the laws of physics (I thought that the effects in the East Wing toilets were my fault until I found that out).

Emps

Actually, if you could see the paper version (with somewhat sharper details) you'd find that that thing is actually a hacked-off column, kind of a greek/roman thing, used to be a recurring theme in my oldest works. Enough people have mistaken it, I guess it's time to clip that bit out and replace it with some more rocks and gras for the time being.

As for the physics, it occured to me that if you were to stand in one place and spin around, (or perhaps more like, stand on a big turntable, at the edge, and let *it* spin) then the physics of the odd looking movement would make sense. Think about it, maybe yes, maybe no? Ah well, it looks cool, that's the important bit, heh.

Last night I figured out how to do the open/close of that window, the gradient in the background really made things difficult. I figure I have a top and a bottom, each as half the gradient. I can move them apart and closer while adjusting the clipping properties of them so the gradient will still match in the middle, it should work, and look pretty neat, I hope.

Your pal, -doc-

Emperor: I missed that thread (I think it was way down on the list before I got up the courage to fully explore all the different wards). Wow, I thought I was being really nit-picky. I do have a tendency to be hyper-critical, and I wasn't sure if I was the only one who saw that. It seems, though, that a lot of people have noticed it (at least that's what I gather from what Doc said). I don't feel so weird anymore.

Hmm... now that I look at it closely (although it's a tad difficult to pin it down ), it does kind of look like a ruined column. Interesting.

I've also discovered that if you move the mouse up and down really fast over the landscape you can get it to skip along (yeah, I know, it's already been pointed out). Wacky physics, but cool effect. I almost fell into my monitor.

I dont want to seem like a sour grape , but after seeing your latest design for ozone.com (amazing) I was figuring out how it worked etc.. and I kind of thought of that idea with the layers of landscape. But what I wanted to do (of course, I dont have a site I could use such a thing on) is have different shades on each layers as opposed to any drawn detail.

Excellent design !

Doc: I've just had a look in Op6 and it breaks stopping the scrolling giving the HSBoD.

Emps

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Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Yah? I thought I eliminated that mousefollowing in Opera, which made it work. Must've added that back in again, hrmph. I've started work on http://www.ozones.com/lost/index.html - incorporating the slight bevel from that index3 page mentioned above, and have started working on windows and buttons. Still have a lot of work to do with the page loadings, the window opening/closing, and I don't really love the mouseovers either! Still, it's a happening thing now, I'm having fun. Thanks for all your input!

Your pal, -doc-

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Cool, the landscape looks improved . I also like the mouseovers, but the scrolling seems to stutter ever so briefly when the mouseover activates. It's a tad distracting; I wonder if there would be a way to fix that?

Yah, right now I'm handling both the scrolling backgrounds and the mouseovers in the same setInterval() loop. It sems to me that when the mouseover needs processing, it takes just a little bit longer to calculate that run through. Maybe if I were to have two different setIntervals going at the same time? I'll experiment with this, I don't want to burden the CPU more than I need to.

Your pal, -doc-

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I am all for making the text on the navigation 1 shade darker. I really have a problem seeing it even when I mouse over it.

I first looked at it as it were artistic. A struggle to see where you are going, but I think that it falls a little short of this and readability should take some precidence here. i'm not sure? what are your ideas with this?

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Yah, I've been playing, and the overall opacity is set to only 50%, that's why the buttons are so hard to read. I don't know what to do about the lag on the landscape background whenever something else happens, that's annoying the hell out of me! This is still a 'work in progress', I've had a cold these last couple of days so my output has been dragging, heh. :-)

Your pal, -doc-

Well, the only input I can add is that it's a pretty big departure from your normal color scheme, Doc. Though I really like the idea, does it fit into your site? As a 404 page, maybe, but as a 'front door'? Just my opinion, of course. Otherwise, the page is great.

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Nice work doc, love your style.
But its still eating major CPU resources.

Perhaps you could see how it looks if you stop the bkg slide while the tab pops up and down.
I get a lot of lag when it goes up or down.

Im running an Intel 800mhz viewing with IE6 on 1024x768

It?s your style, no way to change it!

For a easier access to the less expert visitor maybe worth to think about
More color, monochromatic or selected even, or more shadow,
Or 1 or more floating icon /menu turning into color (the way you know how).

Ah, your control panel, could be nice to try with a gif image/drawing bigger size
Irregular shape (gif) . To try in the end, the thing +- in the corner to see if can go on a layer or something, with icon on bg. BTW Load like a flash on Pentium 900, IE6, 8x6

Considering only my opinion : that?s your style, don't change it !


[This message has been edited by nobodywebsite (edited 05-05-2002).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
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Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Hmm? But the background animation (the landscape), that's all GIF files with transparency! Hmm. I don't know quite what to say about this speed/optimization thing, I expect I'll have to find some clever way to handle this, somehow, some way. Still, I'm having too much fun with this concept, I expect I'll follow it through to the end!

I gave some thoughts to the colors, perhaps white *would* be simply too much for the front page of the OZONE, and maybe it should just be for the 404 pages. So, I played around a bit, working in more "ozone style" colors, check out http://www.ozones.com/lost/index2.html and let me know what you think about this one. I think I like it so far, the colors are certainly more restful to *my* old eyes, heh.

Your pal, -doc-

Now that rocks!!! I really like the colors...very nice, Doc! Looks like it is very close to being 'proofed'. Can't wait to see the 'finished' page...great work (but you knew that already).

Ahhhrrrgh! It's beautiful in color!
But are you going to dump your current interface already?
That's also outstanding...
<mumble>some people and their endless supply of talent...</mumble>
/Dan


-{ a vibration is a movement that doesn't know which way to go }-

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
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Absolutely amazing



-= Veneficuz =-
"Mundus vult decipi. Ergo decipiatur."

Yah InI, I noticed that after I posted. As per your advice, it's history for now. (Too bad, too! It looks so cool, but damn! The CPU burn is heavy.)

Your pal, -doc-

Wow. Pretty colors. Very, very nice.

I'm at a loss for words.

Oh, um, I think this was mentioned before, but you are going to have something on the page saying it's a 404 error, right? Or something like, "We couldn't find the page you were looking for, so enjoy this psychedelic scrolling landscape while you decide what to do next"? As it is, people might just get confused...

That's my only feedback at this point. The design is awesome. It's like something I would dream about being able to do.

(Oh yeah, there's no scrolling yet, right? At least, I didn't see a scrollbar...)

Yah, the scrolling is not implemented yet, I just need to plug that in place, but I may get fancy on this one so I'm waiting. (I was thinking of also having the option of horizontal scrolling, for the portfolio section, that could be a nice way of showing off sites.) As for the 404-ness of this, I expect I'll use the white version for the 404 pages, but I'm considering using this orange version as my new front page! It still needs much work, but ooh! I like looking at it.

Your pal, -doc-

Oh, I see. Yeah, it would make a really nice front page. It is very pleasant to look at.

ARGGhhh!!! I built this site as an experiment in several ways, it was the first I ever did using nothing but my windows PC, but I just now looked at it on another computer. Why didn't anyone *tell* me the buttons and the window don't match? I mean, the window part is *green* for crying out loud!!! Dammit. I'm going to have to do the buttons and the window pieces all over again from scratch, back to the Macintosh for me!

Stupid PC.

Your pal, -doc-

Doc: I thought that was part of the plan - the scrolling landscape in a greenish hue and everything else in a grey-blue!! Anyway I prefer the orange version!!

Emps

Emps, check out the index2.html, it's all gone dark brown and orange, but now some green crept into my orange, and it looks yucky! (At least, to me!)

Your pal, -doc-

Doc: I think my screen is a little dark (at least when compared to the TFT on my laptop) but I can't see any green in the orange version - blacks, oranges, reds and yellows. You've got a far better eye for colour but I can't see it. Is matching colours across various browser/platform combinations a thankless task??

I can do a screenshot (of one or both) if that is helpful.

Emps

That is so amazing, its beautiful
I'm gonna cry

I dunno Doc. I don't think the green looks so bad. It is really unnerving when the faraway landscape moves faster then the close up stuff. Unnatural.

DigitalUbiquity

Yah, I've come up with a rationalization for why the landscape moves that way, here it is. Suppose you could flap your arms and fly. Not too high, maybe just a slow hover. Plus, one arm is stronger than the other, so you tend to spin just a bit. You're also not just spinning in place, but spinning around in a small, slow circle. THEN the landscape, it might move just like that, with the closest things moving slowly, and the farther things faster.

Plus, it looks cool.

The green, it really isn't that bad, but the buttons should be more of the same color as the window, and right now they aren't even close! I've got PSD templates and scripts for hacking things up quickly, I expect I'll have new images in place later tonight.

Your pal, -doc-

I don't kow why, but using IE6 I get horrible flashing in the overlapping layers of the landscape, with a refresh rate of about 2 FPS. Window size doesn't matter.

ROFL... Doc, I like that explination! Very slick!

I'm not sure if this is what you were trying to say, Doc, but the only explanation that makes is if you were describing a wide circle and looking inward toward the center of the circle. Is that what you were saying?

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I like it because it's mildly unsettling when you first see it--you know something is wrong, but you can't quite put your finger on it. It creates a sort of barely palpable logical tension. And I think that's nifty.

Simple expanation, if you were to stand in one place and spin, the background would move faster than the foreground. (Not really, but it's closer to what you see than anything else!) I also liked it just because it triggers some switch in the brain that shouts "WRONG WRONG WRONG" and you don't know why at first! I like playing games with peoples brains.

Your pal, -doc-

I wasn't saying it was bad, just unsettling. I think that is a good thing.

DigitalUbiquity

That was the intent, it's supposed to be unsettling.

Your pal, -doc-

I like the orange overall, but I would prefer to see some more realistic coloration on the landscape. Or, if that seems to out of character for the page, perhaps simply a bit more contrast - it just looks a little washed out as is...

BTW, I don't see any green from here, if that helps any.

Edit: Double post


[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 05-09-2002).]

"it triggers some switch in the brain that shouts "WRONG WRONG WRONG"

Actualy I always thought of the standing still and turning thing when I first saw it. Maybe I just play way too may 3D First Person games...

Think of your vision as an arc. Say you were standing in front of a flat plane with a grid on it. You may see 4 squares of the grid right in front of you but about 100 squares off in the distance. If you turn, you'll see 1 new squage in front of you to ever 25 or so new squares in the distance.

Really lovin the page Doc! Although I'm seeing the green in the orange one too. Kinda makes it a bit muddy IMO. There's green in the "Lost in the Ozone" logo too.

Hmm... that's true. I don't know what I was thinking. Man, that page really confused me.

Wow! This is nice!!! I can?t say much more.

In conjunction with the ?wrong wrong wrong? in the animation the new Ozone page remind me about environment, pollution and health problems; I think Sweden it is a top country on research for health and pollution; what's more, this could also reflect a Political issue (even if sporadically that?s a target for old political powers).

Heh. I think the "wrong wrong wrong" was about my rather pathetic attempt at explaining the background movement.

doc, i dont know if it has already been said, but what about a smoother changing of direction.
i mean slowing down the animation first, then changiong direction and accelerating speed.

i was a visitor for 30 seconds! whoo hoo..

oh anyways just looks like a sketch .. but we know the quality of Ozones work so we really dont focus on that ....... but he did mention something about it being a view as if we are spinning....

my only thought is a more circular approach wider at the edges a tapering a lil lil bit in the middle? or flaring out more????.......??? would feel like more of a round effect???????

dont get me wrong its great but by his explination i dont get a feeling of spinning... maby if waved more ??




[This message has been edited by mel (edited 05-12-2002).]

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

yay, ini is right. the status bar is absolutely unnecessary.

btw, the font in the dhtml-window is lookin very ugly for me. (could be my tft).

WOW, I didn't know that the Lost in the Ozone 404 page was so recent and so discussed.
Two days ago, I was writing a regular 404 page for my site, due to a lot of address changing that took place, and then, I thought to myself: what a site as Ozone's would have as a 404 Not Found page? That guy must have something different there. Then I typed some weird address at www.ozones.com, just to see what would come up and, surprise, a beautiful and ingenious page showed up. I thought again: it had to be!
Well, Doc, if you are reading this and if you remember my emails I sent you, forget them!! I didn't know you plan to make that page a front page. For me, it was "just" a 404 Not Found page that people were not aware of its existence, after all, who in the world, besides Doc, is worried about a 404 page?

The poster has demanded we remove all his contributions, less he takes legal action.
We have done so.
Now Tyberius Prime expects him to start complaining that we removed his 'free speech' since this message will replace all of his posts, past and future.
Don't follow his example - seek real life help first.

Amen.

Doc, its excellent - although it gives me motion sickness, really.. then again yesterdays BLT probably wasnt a good idea.

FatRod

I definitly love the orange one, I would type in bad urls all day long just to see it

I really like it.. the mountains are great animation but as I was dragging the mouse around I had a "vision" of a lava lamp type flow.. semitranparent in the layers..blending several shades together to create shadings or pools of complimentary shades.. What a toy that would be.. as I have not studied up on exactly how the moutain mousemotion animation was created I don't know what is possible..are 4 directions of liquid flow/overlap possible? Ha I have been being lazy, not doing web pages lately but now Doc has started to inspire me again.. Great Page Doc.. just intrigues me no end!!

Ok, two things I noticed...no link to HandsOn...should be something very easy to find (IMHO) and under 'home' the graphic of the 'mad scientist?' has a prob...the graphic is 'split' where the head is...needs to be fixed...

Other than that, I really like the colors...and the nav is top-notch...

Love it,,

hehehe it loves my cpu too

50% on p4 1.6 ghz with 512 mb ram

ie6 on win 2k

also the rollovers seems a bit slow to respond

that said i dont care ya can eat some more of my cpu..

first time i ever bookmarked a 404 page