Topic: What % of visitors still use NN4? (Page 1 of 1)

I just ran the stats for Gurus Network, and found it quite interesting. For the month of February, here is what I see:

1 5793 15.52% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98)
2 3802 10.18% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0)
3 3705 9.92% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt)
4 3297 8.83% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0)
5 2960 7.93% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; Win 9x 4.90)
6 2463 6.60% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows 98)
7 1431 3.83% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 4.0)
8 1104 2.96% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 95)
9 975 2.61% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Mac_PowerPC)
10 779 2.09% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt)
11 556 1.49% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98; NetCaptor 5.50
12 523 1.40% Mozilla/4.73C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC)
13 483 1.29% Mozilla/4.5 (compatible; iCab Pre2.2; Macintosh; I; PPC)
14 463 1.24% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt; NetCap
15 446 1.19% Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98)

Notice that IE makes up almost all of the traffic. Curious as to what others are seeing on their sites. I hate to devote so much time to making things look good in NN4 if no one is using it any more.

I ran the states for about a dozen of my sites, and these are pretty much the same as all the others.


Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2001/January/browser.html

Yeah it definately seems IE has the lions share of the browsers. I still have faith in the Mozilla browsers though I think they going are in the right direction and the open-source method is the only real way to compete with MS in the browser wars.

Here's the techtv stats (I think for a month)

Microsoft IE 5.x 21,421,618
Netscape 4.x 3,100,947
Microsoft IE 4.x 938,621
Netscape 3.x 705,369
Netscape 5.x 293,486
Webclipping.com 225,138
Googlebot/2.1
(+http://www.googlebot.com/bot.html) 161,302
Marketwave Hit List 114,386
Microsoft NetShow 4.x 106,234

Operating systems:

Win98 18,607,277
(None) 9,507,492
WinNT 3,982,191
Win95 2,133,261
Mac 831,188
Unix/Linux 161,533
Win3 108,768
OS/2 1,289
Amiga 259

LOL Looking at max's link who the heck are the 2000 schmoes still using NN or IE 1.x

Yeah, that's got some interesting information. Based on the declining rate of NN4, I might stop developing for it. It just adds too much time to a project and makes it far too complex.

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

Down with NN 4!

10%... still significant, unfortunately.

By the way, I notice that some people look at the stats for their page and say "no one's using browser X, so i dont need to design for it," not realizing that the reason no one uses browser X on their page is because their page doesn't support it. Just watch out for that, look at the statistics for the more popular sites, not your own, to determine this stuff.

Slime - NN4 is down to 8% this month....hehehehe...

Out with it! Burn those NN4 installations! Resistence is futile!

I ran all kinds of stats, and that's just what I'm noticing. I'm thinking if NN4 is losing 1% per month, projects that get started now shouldn't have to worry about it by the time they are up and running.

Just my .02

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

Pugzly, you say that we should exterminate NN4... And what will people that are using other OSes (other than Windows) use to browse the internet?

NN6! :-)

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

http://212.72.46.18/open;sys?login=taming

not the best tracker in the world, but i also get ns 4 at 10%. i am 100% compliant with ns 6, but hardly anyone is visiting this site with that browser. i see AOL 3 listed, which should be equal to ie 3, which i know im not very compliant with (because i use css for my bg images). but i think with the way that i have my colors set up, you can see the text, but not the links very well. mind you that ive restarted this tracking a few months ago.

------
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned

Pugzly, most people still prefer NN4 instead of NN6, because NN6 is much slower and still isn't finished (and also, most web sites don't support NN6 yet)...

I was looking at stats from 5 different sites just yesterday, summary:

5plus
IE5+ - 72-83%
Netscape6 - 0-1.5%
4plus
IE4+ - 4-12%
Netscape4+ - 8-10%

I assumed that the low figures for the 5+ browsers and the high figures for the 4+ browsers would be more representative of the general surfing public since the sites I got the stats from were more than likely being frequented by design types and webmasters. This sound logical? That could be about an 80/20 split between v4 and 5 browsers. For a business site it's clear that you need to support the older browsers but for sites like the gurusnetwork I think it would be a little different.

Good stuff people. This would be really useful if we could post this kind of info once a month or something...

I am *really* close to giving up on NN4. I even spent a lot of extra time coding my latest dHtml stuff for the damn thing and now I think it may have been a waste of time. I think all I need is a consensus around here and I'm through with it! I will wait until that time.

Bugimus, You have my permission

-D

I've already decided to drop NN 4 support for my more complicated pages. Partially because I'm lazy, partially because I just don't care enough about that 10% - I don't think any of them are *my* friends. =)

DIE NN DIE!!!!!

Doc doesn't have the bandwidth for me to explain the many reasons I hate NN!

That said, I've decided to start all my code testing to see if the NN "gods" accept it. I was coding and viewing in IE5.5 ("looks good! Keep going!" LOL) and now I've got to re-code who knows how many pages.

Bla.
Bla.
Bla.

Bugimus - I think I'm done, too.

All in favor?

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

aye

If I ever do a personal page it will be wholly compliant with the latest spec. I can say that cuz I'll probably never do a personal page

My site stats says 52.57% MS IE v.4-5 (42.8% IE v.5). That means half my visitors are using other, less compliant browsers. I can't afford to lose half my visitors though! I'm going to code for NN as well for some time still. For me, it's too early for have NN4 die.

Well, my site still gets just a *hair* more than 10% of NS4.x browsers. One of the benchmark sites I use is my old employer VISI.com, 10,000 users, a pretty average slice of the midwest, and NS4.x accounts for over 20% of their traffic, based on *visitors*, not hits. I'm not abandoning NS4 yet.

FWIW, I use a macintosh, many of the old-school designers still do, it's what we started with. MSIE 5.0 is a horrible joke, slow, buggy, but with built in auction tracking! (Big deal!) NS6.x is frighteningly slow, even the newest Mozilla builds. Javascript on Netscape 4.72 on my Mac is neck and neck the fastest, compared to MSIE5.5 on my PIII. So! *I* am one of those schmoes you speak of.

(I also occasionally surf around with one of my old .96b or 1.1 browsers, just for the good laugh, or sometimes a pleasant surprise. I'll bet that a majority of those folks using those old browsers are not real people, but people testing things out like I do.)

Your pal, -doc-

hmm... if it aint broke dont fix it...
actually i dont use netscape, but i am the only person in the fam to use IE.
so the Nscape we have is good old 4.72!
i wodnloaded NN6 but i still like my 5.0v of IE better, and nobody else in the fam uses 6.



[This message has been edited by eyezaer (edited 03-18-2001).]

Well, I'm a little late with this but here are the stats for the kid's site I run. Since they're the future and all, I'm intending to build for them.

my site:

10835 Ms Internet Explorer 5.x
2219 Ms Internet Explorer 4.x
1779 Netscape Navigator 4.x
292 Otros
50 Ms Internet Explorer 3.x
42 Netscape Navigator 3.x
40 Ms Internet Explorer 2.x o anterior
25 Netscape Navigator
12 Netscape Navigator 2.x
12 Opera
2 HotJava
1 Ms Internet Explorer


Todos los caminos llevan a Roma

Anyone gone to brainjar.com lately with NN4?

Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

Wow, Allewyn, those were some interesting stats from that kids site of yours. 5.5% Netscape, the lowest I've seen so far! It was interesting to note that so many folks were running at 800x600, I wonder how many designers actually run that rez for a while to get the feel for it? I talked Malin into turning her system down that far, and tommorrow she's going to try and get the other members of her teams to do the same (that's the standard for their newest client.) It's quite the trip when you see how claustrophobic some site designs can be at that rez.

Your pal, -doc-

I'm currently writing sites for my new domain and my company site, although both are way behind schedule. Both sites written in css, using IE5.5 (recent upgrade from IE5.1), NN4.7, Opera5 and most recently Netscape6 - the slowest thing on this planet - to check for errors.
I've cursed several times over NN4.7 not rendering the pages as IE and Opera do, but having recently started using Netscape 6 to check for foibles, I am at a loss to understand why the other 3 browsers fully support my style sheets (even NN4.7) and yet 6 does it's own thing, giving me more headaches than NN4.7 used to....

Doc,
Maybe the low NN count is because most new desktops (PC compat) are provided with a glaring link to IE on the desktop. Good ol' MS doing its best to eliminate the competition

As for res, I believe new PC desktops are factory set at 800x600 and unaware or uncaring users never make the adjustment. The age group of users on my site is somewhere between 13 and 23 so they may be using their parents hardware? LOL! Also, Mac users are blissfully unaware of PC res because they have that wonderful million pixel display already set up Don'rt even know if a Mac can be set for anything less.

About designing for only newer browsers. I gotta stay with the consideration for IE4+ SW. NN6 and IE5.5 sure have some neat enhancements that I really like but so far few people, except those that design sites are using them, it seems.

I just ran the stats on a site we pushed out last week. So far, 1.8% is using NN 4.x....

I feel hurt, having spent all that time working on compatability!



Pat Richard
A pixel is worth a thousand words.
http://www.gurusnetwork.com
ICQ 23113317

mm... I have a stupid NN question.

We use NN4.7 for web and email. I got 2 buttons on me puter, one for web and one for email, but i cant get 2 diff. buttons for NN6. You can make the one button bring up either email or webbrowser.... yuck.... can I change that so one will open email and one will open web???

There is a bug in NS4 that causes browser detect functions to think its IE. Without using a math algorithm and a test page to Valign and calculate the distance from X object to the top of the screen there is no way of telling the difference between the two. I'm not sure of the exact version(s) that have this bug, I think I found it on www.htmlguru.com


JMJimmy

I think its documented on devshed as well... developer.netscape.com

[This message has been edited by JMJimmy (edited 04-16-2001).]

Hmmm, I never heard of anything like that and I can say that that statement is false. On the client side, to determinate if web browser is NN4 simply check fo availability of "document.layers" object. On the server side, first eliminate words like MSIE, Opera, Gecko, WebTV and if the remaining word is Mozilla, then it's NN4...