Topic: XML - XSL - XSLT - XHTML - CSS - DOM

I decided to create this post as I can no longer seem to find a slightly similar post where me and bugs or slime or bit (Sorry, can't remember exactly who it was) were tossing round some ideas about the topic and how they currently fit into the asylum.

So, if I want to discuss any of these languages where should they be discussed??? The DHTML & Javascript forum?? The All Browsers Suck forum??

There was a suggestion about weather making another forum for thee would be worth it. Another suggestion was to combine them with the DHTML & Javascript forum and renaming it to suit. Something like "Client Side Coding" or similar. The only problem I could see with this is that XML doesn't have much client side support as of yet so most web XML is serverside.

However, we still don't really have anywhere to officaly discuss CSS and XHTML or plain old HTML for that matter. Some throw these into Javascript & DHTML, others ask these questions in the "All Browsers Suck", "Site reviews" & "Ozone" forums. Which makes it hard to find x post from one or two weeks ago if something rather cool was said or linked to.

Maybe I'm just being a fool but I think with a few simple changes we could fix up some of these problems. I'd also like to know exactly where I sould be asking questions about XML or CSS.

Any ideas?



[This message has been edited by Dracusis (edited 01-12-2002).]

Ok then. Obviously this was a silly idea after all....

Well, that's definitely not a silly idea, Dracusis, I also think that the Asylum lacks a part where everything that isn't JavaScript or DHTML and hasn't something to do with sucking browsers can be discussed.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to rename the 'All browsers suck' forum, there's not that much happening during the last weeks (maybe months, I'm not sure cause I'm sort of new here...), and virtually everything that is posted there could be put into the JavaScript/DHTML forum or in the new one.

Other opinions?

Dracusis: Its not a silly idea at all and is quite an important one - I'm sure I've been involved in such a discussion where the CSS question came up. Technically DHTML is a combination of JavaScript and CSS so CSS might fit comfortably in that forum (witha quick change in the description). However, I feel CSS will become increasingly important now that we have a range of CSS2-compliantish browsers to select from and that it might warrant its own forum - at the moment questions pop up in site review, all browsers suck and DHTML but that might be OK (although it can make searching a bit tricky and slow). I would certainly support the creation of a CSS forum. XML (and its offspring) will also gain massively in importance - I'm suprised there are so few questions here and I would again support a forum for it but I could imagine traffic would be pretty slow for a while. It may be worth creating a hybrid CSS/XML forum and seeing how that runs.

Its also worth noting that a lot more people are becoming interested in CSS-only designs and the CSS forum at the GN has seen quite a bit of activity on that front:
http://www.gurusnetwork.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=16

However, I'm biased as I'm a big advocate of CSS (although I think I've managed to keep it quiet on that front) and I am very interested in XML (although my skills are a little rusty on that front).

The main question is how many forums do we want? My suspicion is the Doc would like to keep the number at this level so when PSPong gets shuffled off to its own space it will free up a 'slot' (although things aren't so ridged as that!!) and it might be then that a new forum can sneak into existence.

Emps


You're my wife now Dave

Note to Dracusis: always wait 24 hours before deciding no one is going to reply to a post =)

I'll reply to this soon... i have no time now, haven't even read the whole thing. Later.

Im Ordering the Pizza and DP.... If yas want beer get it yer selves.... I think a few gallons of DP should be enuff for the wait though... eh? (oh... theres some rum over there if you want a mixed drink-dont tell the minors)

OK... I'm going to stick to my old suggestion that we should merely rename DHTML/Javascript to "client side coding" or something. I don't think we need to create a new forum, since there aren't really *that* many CSS and HTML questions, and the more forums there are, the harder things get.

As for XML, I'm pretty sure that anyone dabbling in it has the experience to know whether they should ask their question in the client or server side scripting forum; they'll probably know what they're using it for, and as someone mentioned, most of those questions will go in the server side scripting forum, since there's hardly any client side support.

Yah, widening the DHTML/Javascript forum might cause some problems, it's already one of the busiest forums, opening it further might clutter things up some. The "All Browsers Suck" idea is not a bad idea, browsers *do* all suck, but we don't need to talk about it quite so much anymore, that's a 'slow' forum. I could just steal the naming concept I used with the sig forum and call it...

XML - XSL - XSLT - XHTML - CSS - DOM

Heh.

(edit: Heh, I was going to of course ask about any thoughts you might have on this matter. I've got company right now, and won't do anything till tomorrow. Think about it, I haven't given it "deep thought" just yet. :-)
Your pal, -doc-



[This message has been edited by DocOzone (edited 01-13-2002).]

Most of the other stuff in the All Browsers Suck forum can be accomodated in Site Reviews (table problems etc.).

I look forward to this one.

Emps


Beware of men without beards and women with beards - Basque proverb

Arr, yeah I guess I sould have waited longer... Thanks for that bit of info slime.

So what are we actualy thinking about changing or adding? From what I can gather this involves the following three forum:

DHTML/Javascript
Site Reviews
All Browsers Suck

Yet the Doc doesn't want to add any more topics to the DHTML/Javascript forum as it already drawns quite a bit of traffic.

The site reviews forum has a moderate ammount of traffic and serves it's pourpose almost to letter at the moment. However there often seems to be the odd general site design question there every now and then. So I suppose the Site Reviews forum would be the best place to discuss general design philosophy as well as getting a seering review. Emp's idea of rolling the "All Browsers Suck" related question into the Site reviews also makes a lot of sence. Espicaly in regards to questions about why your site won't validate and other annoying browser related quirks. Maybe there's a possible name change on the table for that forum too?

I'm still not sure which would be the best why to go with the XML & CSS related areas though. Slime and Doc both put forward very valid points to support very different approaches.

The problem with XML is that it doesn't fit into the current forumla of splitting things up the way we have here for so long. It's both Server & Client. Both raw data and presentation. Well, it was created to be as versatile <-sp? as possible and it is. Which makes it hard to classify. Although XML is primarly client side the current lack of client side support means that XML phrasing and transforming should be done on the serverside for the time being. However, phrasing and transforming XML is such is small part of it really, and further down the track these will be done clientside.

Eh, I'm still not really to sure what approach would be best. Still, either would good in my opinion.

Hmm, considering how little traffic All Browsers Suck gets, I like Doc's idea of changing it to the... hmm, the "markup languages and style sheets" forum, or sometihng like that.

One request, Doc, if you name it "XML - XSL - XSLT - XHTML - CSS - DOM", leave out the " - DOM"... the Document Object Model seems to be something we already discuss in the DHTML/Javascript forum. I think it should sorta be left out of this. =)

I think the site reviews forum is fine as is.

Good idea slime however DOM is a specific API for XML. 'HTML DOM' is the one we poke with javascript. Still, as long as the forum title get's accross general idea of what should be discussed it doesn't really matter. So yeah, I'd actualy agree that we don't need to specify DOM, or XSLT in the title.

I suppose the title could actually be trimmed down to 'CSS and XML' as things like XSL, XHTML, XPath, etc. are all XML related (and I doubt we really need a title that picks up on all the related Xxx(x)(x) names just as long as the description picks up the point. I suppose there is a link between the 2 through XSL and CSS can be used on XML so its not like we are lumping 2 completely different things together for lack of anything better!!

I don't think Site Reviews needs a change of name as an important feature is making sure pages are tested in all browsers and browser related quirks are ironed out. Pages posted range from quick tests to full sites so there needn't be a change there either.

There is another aspect of 'All Browsers Suck' and that is general browser software discussion (new browsers, odd bugs, etc.) but that kind of thing can be easily dealt with in this forum I suspect.

Emps


Beware of men without beards and women with beards - Basque proverb

We may want to leave XHTML in there, 'cause we'll get people who don't know the relationship between XML and XHTML and won't know where to take a question. Or, we could just put HTML in there instead of XHTML, since HTML isn't really XML related, but it is a topic not truly covered in DHTML/JS.

a specific place to ask html questions would be helpful.
i have used the 'all browsers suck' forum, as that is where i find problems with simple coding.. making it work across all browsers

http://www.ozoneasylum.com/Forum15/HTML/000042.html


"...when I'm high like heaven, when I'm strong like music, 'cause I'm slow like honey and heavy with mood..."
ICQ: 67751342

Petskull? That topic's like two months old isn't it?

yeah, but it kinda helps, doesn't it?

the way I figger it is:

client-side ---- DHTML/Javascript Forum
server-side --- Server-side scripting Forum...

I think we have too many forums as it is...


"...when I'm high like heaven, when I'm strong like music, 'cause I'm slow like honey and heavy with mood..."
ICQ: 67751342

Ok, new to this forum, new to all forums.. so an outsider view.. All Browsers Suck is like "so what?" or "that is so obvious, why mention it?" Are you asking for a browser review? BUT all sucky browsers getz a thorough thrashing when it is related to specific issues like CSS or html or java script.. so this new category makes sense.. and is inclusive of all browsers suck as a recent post by allewyn demonstrates.. the post is related to a specific issue, has a clear problem about sucky browsers and promotes discussion of resolutions and solutions.. but if the All Browsers Suck could be redefined somehow it might be useful if this section becomes a discussion of "how to" rather than "why won't Nav" and "Opera" and so on...render my page correctly... which may be a long time from now as the browsers are not complying very quickly at all at all

Since there IS so few HTML questions, why not let them slip in here?
At least us *newbees* would know where to go!

Calling HTML stupid is down right rude.

Right, an *I* slantered in from where I'm suppose to come from...
Fixed now though!


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My point further on would be that asking about HTML in the XML - XSL - XSLT - XHTML - CSS - DOM forum would be an *excellent* way to be introduced/guided to XHTML solutions etc.
That way it'll all came natural.
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[This message has been edited by 99 (edited 01-24-2002).]