Topic awaiting preservation: Lord of the Rings comes to the Asylum

OK so here is the scoop!!!

Skaarj and myself are starting to make a short film in 3d, based on the scene in "The Fellowship of the Ring" in the Halls Of Moria, where the party is surrounded by an Orc Horde, and the the Balrog appears. We will be posting our progress here so you all will be able to follow our adventure in film making. At the moment we are at the story board stage,working out scenery,characters and lighting and camera angles etc. So watch this space....

That sounds awesome. What software will you be using?

for the 3d work, 3D Studio Max, Texture work Photoshop, Post Production Adobe Premiere

lemme know if I can help..

don't know with what, but let me know just the same..


Code - CGI - links - DHTML - Javascript - Perl - programming - Magic - http://www.twistedport.com
ICQ: 67751342

Petskull thanks, well as i posted up in the asylum thread i am waiting for some hosting to kick in so i can show some of what we were working on today

Need props? I wouldn't mind try to model, map, and texture some props.

OMG! *orgasm* About time something like this happens at the Asylum! My main forte's are compositing, colour grading, sound, and editing and really any other film stuff. Plus Im bloody good at concepts. Although Skaarjj and I aint on the best of terms at the moment, if you do want any help than Im certainly up for it.



"You don't know how paralysing that is, that stare of a blank canvas, which says to the painter: you can't do a thing." - Vincent Van Gogh

well here is a sneak preview of a development shot,moria scene built by skaarj,textured by me,orc by me, converted from poser file to 3D studio MAX format

edit:a link would help

[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-14-2003).]

WOW! Looks really promising, just to be picky, where is the light source coming from? I like the pose and columns.
Hurry up, I want to see more..

"You don't know how paralysing that is, that stare of a blank canvas, which says to the painter: you can't do a thing." - Vincent Van Gogh

the light source it coming from where the fellowship party will be, there are two light sources, one from gandalfs staff, and one from a torch

Got the e-mail, but I'm weird and am going to reply here.

The last "big" thing I did was myroom3.jpg. Around 98% from scratch (recognize the wood texture?). I've learned a few more things since then.

What I'm going to do is dig through my archives, clean a few things up, and post. Looking at a few days depending on the Girlies and Woman.

Gotta go.

I regognize it's a work in progress, but the first thing I noticed was the way the bases of the pillars don't match up with the floor. =)

Also, try to do more with the lighting. But this is a good start!

WJ you dumbass, show them pui pui damnit. Then they'll know your true power, level... Heh.

That's because I haven't merged the models yet Slime

That will be the next step, becuase to do t I'l going ot have to up the poly count of that floor by about 1300 unless we want the base of the pillars to deform in the welding.

Pui Pui is rather irrelevent for several reasons. Besides, anybody that was paying attention already knows about him. And, anybody that knows me, can find out rather easily with out any help. Thanks for the thought, though.

I resurrected one of my old meshes. Something I did real quick for a UT mod. Don't know if it was used or even if the mod made it off the ground. Rather low poly and could stand a bit more mesh work, like chamfered edges.

So, my focus has been on the material. Mainly the blade itself. Barely scratched the surface on the rest of the model. Painted 6 maps for this little bugger.

knuckle1.jpg

I did a test animation of a light moving over the top of them and I am really impressed how it plays across the blade at different angles. A still shot doesn't do it/them justice.

I'll keep hacking away in an attempt to impress.

they look great wow are you gonna publish them all, when?

"Trust" is a dirty word that comes only from such a liar but "respect" is something I will learn...if you have faith!!

first off:Thanks everyone for your input.

This was a test to check scale etc, that scene so far was put together in a few hours and is in its very first stages. I ahd planned on using several different 3d packages to do some of things that i wanted to do, and piece it all together in premier, but now my friend is going to do all the editing in his video editing suite.... YAY we got a professional editor in on the act.

OK i am breaking with a lot of my original plans here, and going to work 99% in Max, when skaarj wakes up or comes online i am going to have a quick chat with im about something, so all you #D Studio max guys keep ya eyes peeled because we will need you...

That is definaltely gonna be a sure winner. Great design and graphic rendering.
And the hard russian judge says 9.9 / 10 great job guys can't wait to see the final product. HUZZAH!

Any Max users out there want to help with some character studio rigging???


We are using Max 5 and CS 3

me

Poser model purchased from Renderosity Nzrac by ToxiCAngel , converted to max format by me, animation rig (character studio3) by me.

This is going to be one of the bad asses in moria, it took a long conversion process, first had to export as .3ds, then link all parts together, then set up the character studio biped, then scale it to fit model.

But now i have very fine control over the model, and weeee i can use the crowd control setup in cs 3

[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-16-2003).]

wj contact me on q or messenger my icq # is 177329048

Nice work, peoples! Keep it up!

Lookin' good...can't wait to see more!

Did some chatting with Tom. blah blah blah <-- actual transcript

Skaarj, I sent you an e-mail with some questions.

And I've sent off a reply.

Now, lemme just start by saying that I don't wanna piss on anyones cornflakes, especially at a place that has taught me so much. And I must say that I am looking forward to this finished product. But... I've been into Poser for 2+ years now and something struck me as kinda odd about the statement ",orc by me,". Granted, tom gave credit where credit was do in his second image... orc by Toxicangel but, something still left me a tad uneasy about the first linked pic. In just a few seconds of searching at DAZ3D.com, I found the following pics that earliy resemble the gentleman in the pic and his clothing.

Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3

Even if I'm wrong about the my first pic, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that the guy in the tom's first pic isn't a slight variation of DAZ's Michael model. Either way, unless tom works for DAZ, they're not his original creations. If I'm wrong, I humbly apologize in advance and afterwards I'll run off with my tail between my legs... until it's safe to show my face again. I just wanna make sure that people get properly credited for their work.

Shard: Interesting idea and there is nothing wrong with raising questions about stuff (it helps us get to the root of the creative process) but Tom's fist pic:
http://lotr.8bit.co.uk/Moria-Test.jpg

is a little long distance to tell (it could be a picture of my big toe or some old chewing gum for all the detail there is ).

Also the use of Poser does raise questions of who has done what - unless you actually built the model from the ground up then someone else will have had some input in there somewhere and most of the major models tend to be based on Michael (not you the Poser model, urmmm no still not you) but as mentioned above I'm not sure how you can tell from the little teaser (unless I've missed something?).

Anyway never be afraid to ask (be afraid of the flesh eating weavels that live under the toilet seat). Anyway I'm sure Tom can answer these questions better so........

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Am i missing something here????

quote:

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well here is a sneak preview of a development shot,moria scene built by skaarj,textured by me,orc by me, converted from poser file to 3D studio MAX format

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Hmmm Shard can you read this????

quote:

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converted from poser file to 3D studio MAX format

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hmmm maybe i am missing something.....

So as i said i converted it from a poser model, maybe i should have said the Daz 3D Model based on michaels figure, But as i said i had "converted it" not created it, that that would have been enough for people to see i was not claiming credit for someone elses's creation.

I am not gonna leave out credits or claim the work is a creation of my own, it was an adaption like practically every model out there; now the toxic angel orc is in fact based on michael its a body morph, But the work he did on the original michael figure made that version of it HIS...

Now the conversion i did, which took a hell of a lot of work, as MAX 5 will not allow a straight import, was a conversion thats it (not creation)..

i was simply pointing out which parts of the scene had been done by whom, Set by skaarj, orc by me...

what the fuck is it with some people round here??????????



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-23-2003).]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...calm down mate. This is just once, and I don't think it's 'people around here'

But anyway...Shard, he's significantly changed the ToxicAngel model anyway, so it's now his work. He did credit that he'd adapted it, did everything he legally has to doand morally should do, so don't think that we're going to pull him up short for not doing anything wrong.

and for further clarification purposes here is the daz license click the license faq...

DAZ LICENSE AGREEMENT

See, this's precisely why I don't like to bring up stuff like this. I don't like getting someone's panties in a wad and getting on someone's infinite bad side... it's typically not my style. Lemme address some of the issues that have been presented.

quote:

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I'm not sure how you can tell from the little teaser

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I've been working with Poser several times a week for the last 2+ years. That's not to even imply that I'm some kinda expert, just that I notice some things that the casual user would not. It's kinda like when someone from the Photoshop forum can so easily tell when someone is using filters rather than creating effects from scratch.

quote:

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maybe i should have said the Daz 3D Model based on michaels figure

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That would've helped me understand what you were getting at. I just chalk it up to neglecting to say something that probably should have been said. It's not a huge issue, just something I felt strong enough to say something about.

quote:

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And I must say that I am looking forward to this finished product.

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I do think ya'll are doing a great job on this project. Maybe I was a little harsh in my first post... not wrong... but harsh in my presentation. I'm not one of those 3D elitists that insist that every model be made from scratch in order for it to be considered real artwork. I can tell you all have spent a lot of time on the project and, as I said, it wasn't and isn't my intention to "piss on anyones cornflakes". I was mainly just looking for clarification. With the increasing amount of newbies that come to this forum, not everyone is gonna know that the guy in the pic is an adaptation of Mike and his Changing Fantasy Suit. And, especially now that DAZ and Curious Labs are cracking down on their copyrights, it may be worthwhile to be as specific as possible to avoid problems in the future. Have you read the original Poser 5 EULA? It's rediculous and comes dangerously close to saying that any work created within Poser is not eligible for copyright due to the fact that it was created within Poser. Tell me how insane that is. Curious Labs has since modified the EULA because of the artists' uproar but, it'd still be worth the time to be a little more careful.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I got anyone's feathers ruffled. I just wanted to clarify some things. I appreciate the opportunity to do that. Good luck on the project guys... I can't wait to see it completed.



[This message has been edited by Shard (edited 01-23-2003).]

just a final comment on this....

As long as you do not sell, modify or place a model in direct competion that has been adapted or converted wfrom a daz 3d model, you arefree to do what ya want with a 3d model from daz...

In a 2d enviroment, such as a rendered image you have total unrestricted license to do what you want with it (the model that is) wihtout giving credits...

However, just for clarification prposes again, take a look at my renderosity gallery (poser section) you will see i always give credits even when not necessary

Bloody technicalities and who said what

"You don't know how paralysing that is, that stare of a blank canvas, which says to the painter: you can't do a thing." - Vincent Van Gogh

agreed, luxor!!!!! lets get this back on track, unless anyone else wants to twist what i posted or add further comments, its ok but try and keep em brief

quote:

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twist what i posted

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I sincerely hope that is not an insinuation on my posts. If so, it appears you didn't thoroughly read anything that I posted and, it's possible that I may have given you too much credit. My intention wasn't, isn't, and will not be to twist anything that anyone has posted... simply to point out a detail that appeared to be left out that I found needed clarification. That's all. This is no terrorist plot against you, tom. By all means, let's get back to the intended topic. I'd even recommend starting a new thread so as not to shadow an otherwise great work of art.

Shard its ok it wasnt aimed at you personally, maybe i am a bit on edge... this is getting a very large and complex project and skaarj and i are working our asses off on it, its just recently in other threads not necessarily this one, things have been taken out of ciontext by some people or misread and accusations have started flying. as for the starting of a new thread, no reason for it you had a valid point you felt needed rasing, the matter has been resolved as far as i am concerened so lets move past it...

**Phew** Now back to your regularly scheduled program. I appreciate your candor, tom. As a matter of fact, now that we've cleared the air, like I said, I've got a bit of experience with Poser... if there's anything that I can do to help, let me know. If nothing else, I look forward to seeing your progress.

Shard, we are taking some models, exported from poser as .3ds, then importing them into 3d studio max Version 5, where we are re asembling them, modifying them, then using character studio 3 to rig them and animate them. Unfortunately the easier way round would have been to use the daz 3d max plugin, or maximum pose as interface sofware. However' as they both dont work with 3ds max 5, all the rigging and animation has to be done in max, which means all body parts exported separately, then textured and reassembeld into 1 mesh in max.

The rest is being created within max itself, and the only problem is it would be ILLEGAL for you under the daz license to distribute the models to us even in 3ds format. Unless we have exactly the same models.



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-23-2003).]

quote:

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Unfortunately the easier way round would have been to use the daz 3d max plugin, or maximum pose as interface sofware. However' as they both dont work with 3ds max 5, all the rigging and animation has to be done in max, which means all body parts exported separately, then textured and reassembeld into 1 mesh in max.

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I don't understand the bit about exporting as seperate body parts and reassembling. Why not export as a single mesh? Texturing issues?

Yep, thats correct on a lot of the poser models that are made the textures are a wierd setup so if you export as a single mesh you cant apply the textures...although the 3ds is made up of several body parts they are all in the right place when imported into max.


so what i do is for example export as parts, in max apply head texture for example, then select all body parts, apply the body texture, uv coordinates stil intact (cos of the 3ds format) , to all of them in one go.

now i have the choice of which way i want to go animation wise..

i can either

a. link all parts and use autobone and use inverse or forward kinetmatics, and use max's auto bone feature.
b.create one solid mesh and use character studio's biped and physique plugins to animate.


Porting from something like poser or lightwave to max is great if ya have the plugins, but as there isnt yet an interface plugin for max 5 yet to read pz3 files, then this is the way it has to be done.



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-23-2003).]

hmm thread corrupt or just me

Edit:just one of those wierd corrupt headers ya sometimes get all working now again



[This message has been edited by tomeaglescz (edited 01-23-2003).]

I do have Poser Pro Pack 4 and a pretty huge library of free and paid-for models(closing in on 7GB now if I recall) but I don't have the Michael orc morph. If I can help. just lemme know.

Ok thanks i will chat to skaarj and get back to you...

edit:what do you use poser for, got any examples of ya work?

I've used it mostly for fun and relaxation over the past couple years. I don't have MAX and I find making scenes in Poser a little cumbersome(afterall, it wasn't designed for that). I have, however put a few scenes together including Poser figures with Bryce 5. I'm a fellow R'osity member and you can find me gallery link below.

My Gallery

Not too long before my computer died, I archived. Unfortunately, the work I did was after I archived. The work that I did is trapped on the HD and I currently don't have a way of getting to it. If I pop this case and put in the HD, I'll have to do it on the sly since my woman doesn't really want me messing too much with her new machine. Not only that, but I don't think CS works on XP - I just did a quick test and I couldn't get CS to work.

Hopefully, at the very least, I'll be able to recover the model and textures. Won't be able to rig with CS, though.

What say you Tom or Skaarj? Or have the two of you kept on trucking w/out me?

Hey WJ glad to see you are back in the land of non hardware challenged people

Things are going forward slowly..

I just upgraded to max 5.1 and cs 4, and am trying to get my head round some of the newer features.

as it stands at the moment, the scene is built (cameras etc) just texturing and props need finalizing.

i have finished some of the meshes (ie orcs)

i am working on the balrog at the moment, thats going to be a while yet, as i am using a lot of sfx plugins on it, and am using animated maps to texture it with. I have the fire working extremely well, i am using phoenix 1.5 by digimation.

one i have that done its back to the fellowship party. Just let us know what you can and cant do and we can work round it.


thanks again tom

Been giving it some thought while making myself at home on Woman's computer (man, I can't wait to get my own machine up and running).

If you send me the 3DS of the orc that you had already sent me, I'll get back to work on making the crowd orc. The only real downside is that I can't get CS to work, so you will have to rig with CS.

I'm also up for doing anything that doesn't require CS. Up to you, really.

If you are going to send it to me again, better do it soon because I'm getting caught up in another 3d project: Buzz Lightyear of Borg. Heh.

Go ahead and e-mail the 3DS orc to me - I've got plenty of e-mail space on my server. (Just click the "send WJ an e-mail button.) I will also need at least one texture to grab values from for the texturing. Or something.