Topic awaiting preservation: Silent Souls

Awesome, it appears I have found where all the smart people hang out. It is good to know that the entire internet is not full of chat rooms saying hi, and whats up, and hello and over and over again. I guess I will just put a short story I wrote here, maybe you could comment......

Silent Souls

?Hello!? He shouted to the souls of the people of the world.
?...? There was no response.
Nothing. Not a laugh, not a mumble, nothing. But he spoke anyway, to the souls of the people of the earth.
?Listen, there is something you must know. It is nothing really, just a bit of applesauce, covered with specks of sugar. Like everything, this is tainted, for I am a man of ultimate truth. Of peacefulness despite differences. Of love amidst hate. I accept all. All people and all choices. There are only two choices worthy of disagreement, murder and theft.?
?Hey, get inside you bastard!? The lady in the backyard next to him yelled at her Dog.
?Silence.? He thought, forcing the soul of the woman next to him into a state of peacefulness.
?This is no time for petty respect. This is no time to dapple with the rhythms of existence. Aren?t you tired? Tired of it all? Tired of following what you do not believe. Because when you sit down on your couch, late at night?you see the truth, like every one else does, because we are all the same. You see what is right or wrong. You see theft and murder: yet you still care about the daily tribulations you put yourself through. You still worry about how fast that guy is driving. You still worry about the time of day, or whether you are going to be late to your appointment. You still worry about the mundane hate you feel. About the love you have for your beautiful face. About the shame you feel as you walk down the crowded streets, constantly aware of the uncomfortable bulge of your stomach, which you constantly try and hide. But wait, no. You see more than this, hidden under it all, buried, you keep it tucked away, thinking you are the only one who knows. Who knows about your importance to the world. About your greatness, and your potential to be the ruler of the earth, the father of power, the mother of all sons, or perhaps even the one who this was written about. Yes you, stranger. Whomever you are who is reading this and thinking it is about them, well you are wrong. I have never met you, you are nothing, as am I. We are nothing, but also everything. And souls: it is time to realize that you are your body. It is time for you to finally join with your body and become one, we must do it all at once, all of us.?
?...? Silence.
?Fine, sit there, stupid people. Sit there and rot. Sit there and never realize that the choices you make are actually the choices of someone else. Never choose anything. Never live. And go on talking about the weather, about the latest TV show, about the newest computer game, or book. And you let it go on, you love the game so much. You love the routine. The things you talk about are not the things you care about. Why is it your choice if someone drinks after 2:00 am in the morning? Why is your choice the size of house I have in your community? Why is it your choice if I have no license plate on the front of my car, or if I don?t wear my seatbelt? Why does your choice have to be mine? Who made you right? Was it God? Well, which one? The God of which religion? Ohh, I see, that religion, well, yes, it does say believe and be saved. Yes, you are right, but?wait, ohh, who are you? I see, well yes, your book too does say believe and you are saved. And you, over there, yours says the same thing. Oh, sorry, I didn?t notice you over there, you are rather short, well yes, I guess your book also says it too, I know. How many more of you? What??? 6 Billion different routes to ultimate peace? You must be kidding, and all of you swear you are right, and everyone else is wrong? Umm, so who should be in hell? How about you decided for yourself. Hey you, you killed ten people, you are going to hell?oh wait, I see it was for God, well, very well then...come on in. And you over there, what have you done, oh steal...well that?s not so bad, come on in?Oh, I see, well that is against your religion, Ok then, you are going to hell. Have a good time, you stupid bastard. How about you?oh I see, you have never done anything wrong. Come on it, oh I see...you believe in no heaven or no hell, you believe in fertilizer and trees. Well, you can be fertilizer for all of eternity, have at it. And you, you want pearly gates and stupid questions, here you go...and you a light, with a tunnel, well its all yours my friend. And you, reincarnation, have at it, and you yogi. Eternal oneness, have it. And you, you fucked up druggie, what do you want, a never-ending joint that never goes out. Here you are, you should meet Jesus, he has started a smoking group off of 1st St., on the corner by the 4-20 store. It is supposed to be a rather wonderful club.?
?...? The souls of the earth sat silently, awaiting the arrival of death.

more paragraphs would really help me thinks

Hey VP! Whats up maaan?

. . .

izzay - you cheeky bastard.

Gilbert - thanks for sharing, an interesting piece - is this your opinion of 'the afterlife'?

Did you want a comment as in "interesting viewpoint, i personally believe..." or a critique, as in "Your piece is good, but in the third sentence, it seems to lack flow..." , or both?

welcome aboard, and remember - be prepared for both philosophy, and other silliness. we don't take you seriously - you shouldn't do so either.

____________
reitsma

It strikes me as something halfway between a rough draft and a poem. What kind of effect were you going for? I didn't particularly like having to guess at its meaning every sentence. I would be much more interested in reading about the actual views that underly your story.

Oh, and by the way, welcome to the Asylum!!!

. . : newThing

Gilbert: Welcome to the Asylum!

Interesting piece you've got there... I'm not sure if it would fit the traditional definition of a short story. More like stream-of-consciousness. To be honest with you SoC has never really been my thing, but I can understand the desire to produce it from time to time.

Hmm... well, like reitsma I'm not exactly sure what sort of comments you were looking for, so I don't want to venture anything quite yet. There are some technical things that I spotted, but I don't want to post them unless that's what you want.

Anyway, here's how I read it. I didn't actually see an afterlife, what I saw was a rant (I'm not using this in a negative sense) against people feeling that they have the right to decide for other people, which turned into a rant against organized religion in the last paragraph. Now that I've read it a bit more thoroughly, I don't think I would call it a SoC piece--it starts out SoC, but moves pretty quickly into the rant (right after the speaker takes care of the lady next door). I'm assuming that's what you were aiming for, right?

Once again, welcome. And if you need any help finding the shock therapy room, just let me know.

I liked it; though it was a lot more deep than I usually think, it brought to the surface some thoughts about my beliefs. As for the writing; well, I'm a math guy, hardly ever got better than C's in english =) but it kept my attention, which is rare with me and posts as long as yours.

Thanks, I guess those all sound good. It was just something i wrote a couple of days ago. I guess it is just about the lack of trust people have in trusting their own opions. And yes, I am not to good at spelling and whatnot...

Welcome, Gilbert Nolander, to the Asylum. One question - how did you get here?

Anyway, yes, this part of the forum is interesting, isn't it? Maybe we will hear more from you in the future...

A couple of things to consider - when you post something like you did above, please state what you wish to accomplish with such a post - then we won't all be so confused...

Ok Shaman,
I guess it was just sort of a what's up post. With no real intentions. I got here because I was setting up a webpage and my brother recommended this place for backgrounds.

Um, I guess the point of that little story is just that I get so sick of all the anger I see in the people all around me, people driving like there is just a car, and not a human in front of them, people judging each other based on what they look like, or what sort of clothes they wear. Different things like that. It just makes me sick to know that we are so advanced as a society, yet their are so many people who do not respect the views and thoughts of others. It is quite disturbing to know the lies that they all preach to each other just to prove that they are right, when deep down inside everyone knows that everyone equal, or at least we are all on the same path which leads to equalness. Or something.

=

Maybe you should take into consideration that many people don't possess the ability to stand in someone elses shoes. That means that they only 'see' the world through their own eyes, and their own perceptions. This, of course, doesn't make it right. But sadly, it's often true...

It would be a mistake to assume that everyone thinks like alike. Not everyone agrees that we are all equal. There are many people in this world that simply don't share the same values as you do. So what, if anything, is to be done about that?

. . : newThing

I guess what needs to be done about that is to create an organization that brings people together, and teaches them the value of all people. I have been working on this for about a year now, and I was waiting until I got my community set up before I responded to your question. I hope, through this group I just created, to bring all people together under a single name. You can read about it at my new community, and more details are in the only document I have so far at my community. Here is the address if you want to read it. I am also working on a webpage that will have the same ideas in mind.
http://communities.msn.com/teamEarth

..Also..

I was wondering if you guys knew of a good webhosting place where you can have tons of sites connected (I have like 25 so far, mainly text based) Most of the hosts I have found on the internet charge high fees if you have over 10 sites. I am poor... Any suggestions?

esoterism against the esoteric... are you sure you want to follow that path?

but, really liked the way it's written....

then again... i just can't seem to understand anything these days...

oh well... nice to meet you

~this is not a signature~

Hi Guys!
What's up.
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello
Hello

*waves*

njuice42
icq 957255

Heh, nice sig Arthemis. Very Foucaultian. I like.

Arthemis - I see no other way to stop our current society from collapsing. If we don't all become more in touch with the beauty inside of everyone, despite their individualistic pre-learned beliefs, then we stand no chance of advancing and progressing into a new reality of peace. It has reached a point now that within the next 20 years their may be major wars that could have a cataclysmic reaction on the structure of our current society. And if we don't bring peace before this happens, their won't even be anyone around to enjoy the peace after the war. Their are all these different religious groups who say they will be alive after the apocolypse. They are all wrong. We will all be dead.

"It has reached a point now that within the next 20 years their may be major wars"

uh.... no offense man... but...... you been hiding under a rock?

I for one am not making attempts "to see the beauty... blah blah" in people...
and i don't really intend to. So i guess I'm to blame when society collapses... or whatever you're rambling about.

This organization you're talking about....
Ya......
......... ya....
Do that.
Little cults are always fun to see on the news.

Belated welcome to the asylum....
I haven't been around much lately.

*waves to bugimus for no apparent reason*
=)

Wow, you give us 20 years? You're generous.

Well...don't really know what to say in response...and that is semingly seldom for me...maybe you should concentrate more on your own life instead of worrying about things that might or might not happen (and that you have no control over anyway...)

To the point: I am from the 'cold war' generation....I'm not sure how old you are, but I know that as I hit about 16-17, I was absolutely convinced that the world was going to end in a nuclear holocaust...good thing I continued with my life...because it didn't happen (thank god)...and life goes on....concentrate on what you can change...

How do you know how much control I have over it, either of you. You do not know me. So, go ahead and sit back and wait. If you don't think I know all about this twenty years, BS. Then well, that is fine. We will see what happens in twenty years. It will be nothing. And you know why nothing will happen. Well, because there are other smart people in this world beside you guys. You are not alone. You may be alone in your methods of uninvolvment, but you are not alone in your intelligent. So, do not ever say that I am living in a rock, or anyone else you do not know.

Anyway, back to a calm state. Ok, so lets see.

Yes, it is very probable that a war will happen in twenty years that kills you. It will not kill me. If you want to live, I suggest trying to become more in tune with the natural environment around you. If not, go back into your caves of solitude and you will die in peace just like the rest of humanity. Or, you can start to learn the importance of hidden communications between each individual. Take for instance if you have a cat. That cat is sitting on your lap. It nods its head at you, you nod back. That is called body language. There are other, more detailed examples of understanding body laungage. Once you fully understand this, you can then maybe..if you ever try, understand the silent communication of wind, perhaps water, or other things all you people have never even tried to understand. But then again, like you said...It would be much easier to just wait 20 years and see what happens.

And about cults. Yea. whatever.

-^^-
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Sorry,
I just hate it that when people get older they tend to just sit back and let the younger generation handle things. This seems to me to be, well. I don't know. But I will assure you I am not 18. And sometimes I put words in the wrong place. I don't have to go back and fix them, I know they are wrong, and if you can't figure it out, I don't care.

I don't fear the world will end, because i know it won't.

If more people were involved in peace, instead of being peaceful, things would be better. That is all I am saying.

-^^-
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One more thing. It is now 4:00 in the am.

--Desolate Sleep--

Sleep?
Yes sometimes, sleep indeed.
But not tonight, not today. Is that a sun, a star?
What is the difference.
Sleep.
Eternal sleep in the desolate waste.
Decrepit remains of a shattered hope.
Left behind, crumbling forth
From the powers of economic prosperity.
Desolately.... We will eventually sleep.
But when?


-^^-
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\___/

MR. NOLANDER! There is an edit button...I suggest you learn to use it...

Ok...there is a technique...and one well learning. It's called taking three deep breaths before posting...this technique not only saves one energy (and allows one to calm down and think before reacting), but also saves one from putting ones foot squarely in ones mouth...

Of course, some people have foot fetishes...

To your points - I certainly don't think that anyone on this board holds the opinion that we here in the Asylum are the only ones who are intelligent and think...where you got this idea from, is for me a mystery...

Second - no, I don't know you, never proposed to know you, hell, I don't ever remember even suggesting anything near knowing you...and I certainly didn't suggest that you are powerless...just that in the post before, you served up some...opinions that I put to question...and offered some advice...nothing more, nothing less...

As for the age thing...I don't know how old you are...but the way you 'speak', your thought processes, and your mannerisms give me the impression of youth...therefore, I used an example from my youth...this should in no way, shape or form be taken as an insult...

However, when you make an assumtion that I (or even we) have not contributed to the world, or are content to sit on our behinds and talk about peace, instead of doing something about it, then you are treading on dangerous ground. You know very little about us, and you certainly know very little about me. You react with anger towards what you feel is a misjudgement, and then turn around and do it to others...that's called 'hypocracy' in my book...

So let's calm down here for a moment and think, ok? And don't forget the edit button

*tries to sneak WebShamen's peacepipe back into his pack admist a halo of smoke*

I'm still not quite sure what this topic is about. *shrugs*



njuice42
icq 957255

[Edit: On second thought, it's just not worth it.]
*grabs the peace pipe*

Ah... that's more like it. I feel better now.

Gilbert: poetry/philosophy at 04.00 is generally not a good idea.



[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 05-27-2002).]

Oh, there you are, my beloved peacepipe *looks around suspicously, peers at stem more closely...either slime has been using it...or...NJUICE!!! Blah! Wipes stem clean...* Man, suho, wipe that...slime? off your mouth...hehe....looks kinda funny, actually...hehe...*puff, puff* Aaahhh...much better....man, wish I had a 'whack njuice' slimie....or a 'scalp njuice' slimie...yeah...hmmm....

How about a smoking slimie, with designator eace: ? Or a peacepipe slimie?

quote:

---

eace:

---

Hehe

*pulls lever for automatic retrival system* Bye-bye suho...*sucking wind noises as suho once again flies through the halls of the Asylum..* 'Look out for that WHAM! too late...sharp corner OUMPFFF! that must of hurt...*

Sorry.

I don' like to think before I write stuff.

-^^-
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\___/

*crawls back into the room, adopts Clint Eastwood voice despite massive injuries*

I'm going to get you, Shammy, if it's the last thing I do...

*crawls back out*

I actually was going to come here this morning and say I didn't mean to say that towards you guys, and it actually wasn't in refernce to you Webshaman (or anyone else in here), it was just in general, like my parents, and all their friends, and their friends, and all the people who forget. I don't know. I really did not mean anything towards you. It sucks how misunderstanding causes such a comotion. I will try and edit stuff, but probably won't most of the time. And yes, I am only 26, and still have a bunch to learn, but I feel the most important thing for me to try and remember is that though all my friends are suddenly not caring anymore, I will not stop caring. You know, the punk community is full of all these young kids, and all the older people just sort of sit back and get jobs, and forget about all the stuff they used to care about. I mean, yea..I got a job and whatnot, but that doesn't mean I can't still contribute to the goodness in society. My friends, I guess, were just lying to themselves for all those years, and lying to me. As soon as they actually got money, they forgot what it was they always wanted it for, which was to make a difference in the world around us, not sit around and play playstation all day.





-^^-
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Gilbert....well, reality can shake up a lot of idealists...don't take it personally. If you really care, then by all means remain true to yourself.

As for what some of us do (or don't do)...well, there are ways, and there are ways. Just look at the Doc, for example. Leading by example...IMHO the best way to do it. You will need to spend alot more time here, to get to know us (and to allow us to get to know you). I suggest that you start with a trip through the archives...great stuff, and good background information....

@suho...*fingers tomahawk...* Bring it on...I'm awaitin'. OK, it's showdown time!!!! *in best Wyatt Earp voice*
(havta remember to get the remote control for that automatic retrival system....hehe)

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 05-28-2002).]

Oh, you mean this remote control?

*presses button, flinging WebShaman into the next ward*

Gilbert: Well, now that WS is out of the way... I understand what you're talking about, and I understand why you're frustrated. For what it's worth, I still consider myself an idealist (maybe being poor has something to do with that ), but I've also seen enough of this world to be a realist as well. The two are not mutually exclusive (dang, who was it here who said they were a realistic idealist?), and in fact I think having too much of one without the other is not a good thing.

A problem idealists sometimes have (and I speak from experience) is not being able to relate to others, specifically feeling disgust toward those they feel have "sold out." This is where a dose of realism comes in handy--it allows you to accept the fact that everyone is different and some people may see issues differently. Not to mention that nothing is just black and white--appearances to the contrary, most people I know are quite gray (I think you know what I mean).

To be honest with you, I'd like to think I can hold on to my idealism. I'd like to think that I'll never "sell out." Who knows what the future holds? All I know is that I can only try my best today.

Anyway, glad to see you in a little more mellow mood. You're last post got me a bit peeved, to tell you the truth . But let's put that behind us now... especially since I think I see WS coming down the hall, and he's got his tomahawk out. Catch you later.

*zips out of the room in flash*

[Incidentally, you're the same age as my younger brother, and you sound a lot like him... you don't live in Portland, Oregon, do you?]

hehe...ok grasshopper, lesson time...*gives spirits signal, and they pull the lever* WHOOOSH!! There goes suho, doing that flying thing again...'heh...maybe I meant a different kind of 'remote control'...' Oh, looks like suho has fallen down and can't get up! I think I'll go and 'help' him *walks down the halls in direction suhos cell, whistling as he thumbs tomahawk, rubs knee along the way...that last corner hurt...*

Alright guys, I think this has gone just about as far enough!

*snags peacepipe*

Don't want anything to happen to the pipe, do we? Carry on, carry on...

Gilbert, I just caught up with this thread. Wow, I must say I'm a little confused as to what you mean. When you speak of being involved in peace instead of just being peaceful, could you explain that some more?

How do you *know* there will be no end in 20 years? Did you mean that literally?

And I am curious as to why you feel the need to create a *new* organization that will bring peace to the world when we already have so many that claim to do just that. In fact, most attempts at utopia in the last century have resulted in millions of murders and some of the worst mass suffering so far experienced by humanity. I am always *very* weary of new attempts at *making* peace happen.

My view? Peace can *only* come when one surrenders to the Great Maker by accepting His offer of being a joint heir in His kingdom through His Son Jesus. This happens inside each of us and cannot be forced or coerced. It is precisely because this is a totally voluntary choice that we will never see total peace in this universe. Sure, we may have periods of relative peace and absence of conflict but it is always only the next generation away as children grow up to accept or reject the values of those who raised them.

I look forward to hearing more about your views on this stuff. Please don't get offended by anything we say here. I'm sure no one here meant anything in a bad way towards you. (not yet anyway, there is that little thing called free will after all )

. . : slicePuzzle

[This message has been edited by Bugimus (edited 05-28-2002).]

Sorry Bugs, I have to reply to that!

quote:

---

My view? Peace can *only* come when one surrenders to the Great Maker by accepting His offer of being a joint heir in His kingdom through His Son Jesus.

---

COUGH! So neither atheists, agnostics nor people of non-christian religion can be peaceful human beings or find inner peace (whichever you meant)? Are you serious?

quote:

---

This happens inside each of us and cannot be forced or coerced.

---

Thank God

quote:

---

It is precisely because this is a totally voluntary choice that we will never see total peace in this universe.

---

Nope.
IMNSHO the reason why we won´t see much peace on the planet is that there will always be struggles for (more) power and money.
And that the Bush administration is heavily influenced by Lockheed-Martin, Raytheon, Boeing and TRW doesn´t help either.
http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/arms/reports/reportaboutface.html#AppA


[This message has been edited by 0\/erLo4D (edited 05-28-2002).]

I certainly believe atheists, agnostics, and non-christian people can live peaceably together. We do that here in this online community all the time. But of course I'm saying that the inner peace stuff and more importantly eternal life can only come from God. That should come as no surprise to anyone.

Your point about struggles for money and power doesn't contradict anything I said. When someone lives according to God's principles, the idea is to give up those damaging struggles, and all other harmful behavior for that matter. That is one of the reasons I hold so firmly to this belief, I've seen God change people from the greedy bastards you're referencing to totally different human beings full of charity and servanthood.

BTW, if you've got a better solution, I'm open to suggestions.

Uhhh...Bugs? I think a whole heck of a lot of Buddhists are going to disagree with you there....not to mention the zen-buddhists, tao believers, shinto, and my people, as well.

Tying inner-peace to a specific belief, or ideal, is simply not correct. A bit of meditation works, as well...

WebShaman, I totally understand and do not expect many people to agree with what I said. The peace that Christ brings to a person is described as one that passes all understanding. I am just being honest about what I believe to be true. Keep in mind that if Christianity is correct, it is the *only* way. Conversely, if my Hindu bretheren are correct it is just one of multitudes.

Bugimus - I mean be more involved in peace, like support local animal shelters, and support places that do not kill trees, and want to use hemp for paper, and stuff like this, just little things. If people would stop buying paper, just for like one week, perhaps the paper makers would start using hemp. The problem with this is that the people who use up all the paper are businesses, and they won't change.

Also, I know the world won't end in twenty years because there are fish that live at the deep depths of the ocean, and as long as they are alive, that means there will never be a total end, unless of course we send something into the sun. But I prefer to not even think about this.

And yes, I totally agree that peace can be achieved by finding God/Great Spirit/Mother Earth/whatever inside of yourself. But like 0\/erLo4D, I also think there are other ways, like God is in everything, so therefor God can be found just by sitting and staring at a flower and meditating on it.

0\/erLo4D - Yes, money and power are the true destructors of peace, I totally agree.

Bugimus - Perhaps what the bible means is that if you believe in Christianity, then it is the only way to God, but if you do not practice it, or have never heard of it, how can it be the only way?

Suho1004 - thanks.



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Bugimus - As far as the new organization thing, I just feel that all other organizations to create world peace have some sort of pre-requisite or requirements, like you have to be Christian, you have to be pro-life, you have to be this, you have to be that. I want to make one that the only common bond you need to have to be apart of it is to be a human who wants to protect the earth from any more wars. Protect the mountains from bombs being slammed into them, protect the environment from pollutions, and I feel the only way for this to happen is for us all to join as one society and forget all other barriers. If you want, you can sign in to my community and read the document I have there, which is an intro to the group, or you can wait a couple of weeks until I am done with my website, that way you won't have to join any community. But here is the site again, anyway.
http://communities.msn.com/teamEarth

-^^-
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'edit post'...the last of the three icons...*sadly shakes head*...

Webshaman - I don't know what you mean? What are you refering to?

-^^-
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*sigh* It's now the 'third icon' and it's called 'edit post'...is that plain enough?

If not, I'll spell it out...edit post...a button so that you can edit one of your own posts...so that you don't have to post again...esp. not one after the other. This forum is Docs forum...so it would be nice if you respected that, and remember that he is footing the bills...so we try to hold multi posting to a minimum...out of courtesy to the Doc...did that come through loud and clear?

We now return to the regularly scheduled program....

Gilbert,

I totally agree with you that people should be more proactive in working towards peace in the world.

The Bible does indeed say that Christ is the *only* way to salvation. You ask how can that be the only way when there are those who don't accept it or are unaware? Well, it is not a pleasant answer, but it is really quite simple. It is entirely possible that Christ is the only way to achieve eternal life... period. The fact that some have never heard about Him or the fact that so many don't believe this to be true doesn't change the possibility of it being reality.

Let me try to use an analogy. Let's say a new disease begins to infect all of the humans on the planet. Let's say that a group of scientists find a cure for the disease and it requires an injection. Let's say that you were one of the people who received an injection and have been cured and now you want to get that cure to as many of your fellow humans as possible. Well, your friends will die of the disease regardless of their knowledge of it or whether they even believe they have a disease, yes? The *only* way they can possibly be cured is if you get that injection to them in time.

About your community, I would prefer to wait for your web page in order to read your document. I don't want to join the community just to read it. Or you can email it to me, that would be cool. I just don't see how creating another organization that requires another pre-requisite is really going to solve anything. There are lots of organizations that already stand for the things you mentioned so why do you want to add another which will only serve to make the choices even that much more confusing to people? But I'm not trying to stop you or put down your efforts to do good, I'm just asking the questions that honestly came up in my mind when I thought about this.

. . : slicePuzzle

Ok Bugs, picking up on your analogy...and in the other parts of the world, the scientists, unaware that a cure has been found, seek to develope their own cure...and succeed! However, it is different than the other cure...so which cure is 'better'?

Does it matter? As long as the disease is cured, who cares? However, what are the side-effects of the 'cures'? Now we start talking about semantics...

In this case, religion is the disease...who's got the cure?

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 05-31-2002).]

Bugimus - the only pre-requisite for my group will be that you are a human. Nothing else, so I thank you for your input, but I'm not sure what you mean by my pre-requisites. There aren't any. Also, the reason I am starting this group is because I do not believe that there should be any common goal or common belief within a group totally for world peace, or else it will eliminate a part of the population from ever wanting to join. For example, a Christian group would not attract atheist, a Muslim group would not attract Christians, a pro-life group would not attract pro-choice peole, etc. The only common goal my group will have is the preservation of the earth and all of its creatures, despite their personal beliefs. And to tell you the truth, I'm not sure why I want to do this, I guess I just got sick of sitting around watching TV all the time, or sitting around reading all the time, and all that other stuff.

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Webshaman - thanks for trying to make me feel stupid.

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What pre-requisites? This one that you repeated in your last post, "The only common goal my group will have is the preservation of the earth and all of its creatures". What will you do with humans who don't agree with that goal? Exclude them? Chastise them? Ignore them?

Gilbert, if you don't want WS to make you feel stupid then I think you should at least edit one of your posts just to show that you can. I think that is what is annoying WS just a bit.

WebShaman, I gave the analogy in order to explain how I believe it works. If you change my analogy then you can make it fit your view of things. Then I can change it back, then you can change it... I just wanted to make sure Gilbert understood very clearly what Christianity claims and does not claim to be true. Whether one should accept it is another conversation altogether.

Bugimus - I see, I never thought about this. Well, I guess I can only hope that the people who do not understand the importance of preserving nature need to be taught about science and the environment and how we are apart of it, not seperate. We are not the rulers, but the protectors of nature. We tend to have all these cars, and factories, and stuff for our own benefit, yet we forget that the only thing that really needs our help is nature. And if we preserve nature, we will preserve ourselves because we are nature, nature with the capacity to kill nature for no reason. And I guess people need to go to this site if they do not understand the importance of nature. http://www.ciesin.org/sub_guide.html

Webshamn - please see Jesus vs. Lucifer, about half way down....

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 05-31-2002).]

I sure am glad I found this awesome place. You guys rule...


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[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 06-01-2002).]

Gilbert: Congratulations, you've edited a post! Now maybe that pesky WebShaman will leave us alone... get your hand off the lever, WS...

*bolts back to his cell*

Kudos...no probs...

@suho...awww...and I was just getting into the 'lever' thing...you spoil all the fun...

Now let's get back to the main topic...or not, whatever butters your bread...

@Bugs...yeah, I knew it was an analogy...and so was mine. The major part of Christianity that really disturbs me is exactly that...that 'they' think they have the only answer...and that all others are wrong. It sticks in my throat. Personally, if there is a God, I don't think He would work like that...but I guess we will all find out....someday.

Webshaman - I totaly agree. I mean, I think the general ideas of Christianity, like all other religions, is based on good principles, but some of the anger that goes along with it I feel is not to good for society as a whole. I mean there is a quote in their somewhere where Jesus says something about if you feel your right eye has sinned, take it out. I know this applies to the times, or is perhaps an analogy, but some people may not understand this, and I feel that Christianity has sort of been stagnent since Jesus came along, whereas other religions, like Native American beliefs, are always adopting to the changing world, and they are based more in peacefulness and co-existence with everything. I mean, not many people are such gentle teachers as you Bug. You have to admit a lot of Christians take things way overboard, and this can cause quite a lot of hatred towards other groups. And that causes other groups to hate Christians even more. It seems like a sort of backfire effect. The more people you try and change, the more angry people you end up with. I believe that all religions are correct, I don't know what you were raised in, but imagine being raised a Muslim, and then having someone telling you that your God is fake, and that the true God is in the bible only. That all other deptions of God are false. I'm not sure, but I think there were other religious books out before the bible. So, therfore, i guess my question is, what makes Chritianity so much better? Convince me....

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I'm not going to get into the religious argument here, but I find this interesting:

quote:

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I feel that Christianity has sort of been stagnent since Jesus came along

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Heh. So, um, I guess Christianity was pretty rockin' before Jesus came along, eh?