Topic awaiting preservation: Alone in the dark ][ (reality) (Page 1 of 2)

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quote:

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I don't know what it is, what it could look like, won't ever have a clue.
It's something I can't find in reality, but my mind can think of it.

---

I've got to admit, InI, you've got me mighty confused. You say you do not have a clue what perfection might look like, but you say you can think of it? Does that mean that you can imagine there is such a thing as perfection? I'll be honest, I'm not really sure what it means to "think of perfection" anyway.

As for our minds reaching beyond the limits of reality, I think there are pretty much two schools of thought on this. On the one hand, if "reality" is conceived as the world around us at the moment, I think everyone's mind can transcend reality--it's called imagination. On the other hand, if "reality" is conceived as the sum of all human experience and knowledge in this world, then I don't think it is possible to transcend reality. Personally, I don't think it is possible to comprehend (not "think of" or "imagine") something that exists outside the realm of experience. For example, infinite time, without beginning or ending. Yes, we may be able to rationalize and say that time has no beginning and no end, but we can never comprehend what it really means. I think the same thing goes for perfection. We may be able to imagine that there is such a thing as perfection, but all our conceptions of perfection will be flawed because there is nothing perfect in the realm of experience.

That being said, I'm not sure what that has to do with life after death, or ghosts and other paranormal stuff, or post-death experiences (do you mean people who come back from the dead?), or even philososilliness (I like that term). Actually, I believe in all of those things. In the realm of ghosts and paranormal stuff, I've had some experiences which reinforce those beliefs. Maybe I'll talk about them at another time (like during the day)...



Cell 270

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I like pizza.

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The most unreliable source of information is a human witness. People are far too subjective when describing their experiences, and have certain cultural ideas engrained in their mind, and see everything with the bias that that creates.

Semi on topic kinda...
Face page 1
Face page 2
26 years ago, they got a picture, fairly low resolution, at a significant angle to the surface, and it kinda looked like a face.

Then there's the "Island in the Plains," aka Badlands Nat'l Park in South Dakota. I have a poster of it, but I haven't found an aerial picture of it online. But for a mental image, it's supposed to look like a human heart in the middle of the plains of southwestern SD.

What else have we "manipulated" to make into something we can relate to...
The Cat's eye Nebulea
Another Eye, More 'Human'

What this all comes down to is that everything we do, and see, and experience, is seen through biased eyes, trying to find some greater purpose in life. Trying to find "god" so to speak. Not the Christian God or anything neccessarily, but some grander scheme. It's hard to comprehend, even for most Atheists I know, that there is nothing out there, that when we die, there is no "life after death" or anything. Knowing it and understanding it is one thing, but actually comprehending the fact that we cease to exist isn't as easy. Because of this, people find other things in the universe, a face watching us from Mars, nebulea staring back at us, or a heart in the Earth, because it gives us a feeling that there is a greater scheme of things than what we have here. It allows people to use their imagination and in a sense it provides some sort of closure when taking into consideration our insignificant existence.


I know this post didn't directly deal with anything you said InI, but I felt this would be the thread to put it in
More later (will be more related to what you said)

[edit: Part of that made no sense what-so-ever]

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 08-20-2002).]

I believe in life after death. In the sense of reincarnation. I feel that we continue to come back for as long as we want to. We do have a choice but we aren't really lalowed to know what's come before though it remains part of us. It's sort of like the caste system in one of the eastern beliefs(I don't know which). There are things that you learn as you go through life and they become a part of you. If you haven't learned something that you feel you need to you go back and try again. You're after death self is a... I don't want to say different awareness... just more aware. In order to truly learn the things that are important to you and your spirit you need to have no knoweldge of what you are to learn. Character definition is funny that way. Eventually we'll decide we've had enough or that our learning is complete(Yeah... right) and stay in the SummerLands(Wiccan heaven, for lack of a better description).

On another note, Some friends and I have been dreaming in another world. A world so real that we live other lives within it. have families within it and interact with each other and other people we know there. We have come to the belief that it is our SummerLands that we dream of. For now we just call it The Realm. We seem to be merging our dreams together. I don't know if we're forging this place out of the ether or if it was already there. We seem to arrive there through astral springboarding off of dreams. It sort of fits into the group of people that I'm surrounded by now and have been surrounded by in lives before.

That leads me to a theory on reincarnation. I think that we are always around certain people. not always in the same relationship but always in a certain circle. Suho called it "inyeon" in another thread. A connection with people that you've never met but seemed destined to meet. I wouldn't call it destiny but a link forged through time. A link that transcends death. It is this link that joins me to my Brethren in The Realm. It is there that I define my spirituality. It is there that I can interact with my image of the God and Goddess. It's interesting... I've never spoken of this to anyone outside of family or those included in the Brethren. I must be comfortable here.

Any ideas, questions or similar thoughts?


GrythusDraconis

I believe in life after death, I live in front of a cemetery, but I have never seen anything weird here and i hope i never do.

Once when I was about 14 I was sleeping with my sister and I swear god I saw her sitting on a chair looking at me....then she started to become transparent...... I was so scared I started to cry..... then I look beside me and she was there sleeping on the bed with me.... i pinched her pulled her hair but she never woke up I cried and prayed till i falled asleep the next day I told her about what happend and she said she had seen the same before .... then a friend of us said the same...... a few years later ... we moved.... too many weirds things happend there, and now i live here in front of a cemetery and i have never seen anything..... weird, eh??

Lala
100 lifes

quote:

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well aint that some shit?...

---

What wayans bros movie?

Ghosts... HmmHmm ghosts...

InI, I've a minute so I think I'll write on that perfection thing you were talking about.

quote:

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I can think of "perfection".

I don't know what it is, what it could look like, won't ever have a clue.
It's something I can't find in reality, but my mind can think of it.

Does it mean my mind can reach limits beyond those of reality?

---

The first thing that came to my mind when I read that was Plato's story of the man in the cave and the difference between what is real and what is Ideal.

Plato thought (and this has become, at least in part, the basis for all Western thought) there is the real thing, and then there is the Ideal. This dichotomy exists for all things.

You have a table. You likely eat at a table most every night of your life. It is a table, with supporting legs and a relatively flat surface on which you place stuff. A table could have many forms:
it could have wood or metal legs;
it could be raw material or painted;
it could be small or large;
it could have a circular or rectangular top;
...I think you get the point.

The 'idea' of what is a table is the Ideal.

It is not real (as no table could possibly have all those attributes at once, and if it did, ugly as it may be, that would be yet another possibility for what a table can be, thus differentiating it from other very real tables) but your mind can still understand what is the Ideal table.

Let me make clear here that Ideal (big 'I') as Plato meant it, does not mean 'perfect' table, but the concept of what is a table...what makes a table a table and how is it different from chair or an elephant.

When you were a child, it is likely your mother pointed at your kitchen table and said 'table' and you understood that particular piece of furniture to be 'table'. At some later date you went to your neighbor's house and your mother said 'table'. Even though it wasn't exactly the same as your table, you understood some characteristics were the same and your thoughts about tables grew. This pattern may have continued until at some point you grasped pretty well the Ideal table. Now, when I write 'table' we both think, on some level, of the same thing. You may think of your kitchen table and I mine, but we both think of table.
There may come a day in the future when you come across something you've never experienced before, and it too will be a table and your thoughts about what is a table will grow.

Now, back to perfection. You have not experienced perfection in any meaningful sense, but maybe you've seen a few small examples on some small scale (a 'perfect' steak...or a 'perfect' date...or a 'perfect' bit of code)
You know perfection exists, you have some very vague and general outlines of what makes perfection and what seperates it from other things...

Just because you haven't seen every possible example of real tables doesn't mean you can't imagine a table.
The same, I think, for your perfection 'dilemna'. Just because you haven't experienced real perfection doesn't mean you can't imagine it...at least in some general, broad outline. As with the table, as each of us grows older and wiser, we gain more experience and our definitions...our grasp of the Ideal, grows.

So, can your mind reach limits outside of reality? Of course. Plato says so.

Hmm... interesting ideas, everyone. After reading through these posts I have to admit that my original ideas on experience and reality need a bit of rethinking, or at the very least rephraseing. I suppose what I was really thinking of was the difference between experience and thought. In my mind, I guess, "comprehension" means the kind of understanding that can only come from experience. I think we can still imagine or theorize about that which is outside our experience. If we couldn't we'd never develop. I'm not sure if this makes much sense...

Lord_Fukutoku also has a point (and, like him, I'm not exactly sure what it relates to, but it is a point). Human beings seek order in chaos--it is the way our mind makes sense of the world around us. The face pictures are a good example, and there are plenty of others as well (like the devil face in the WTC smoke). I guess the point is that you will see what you want to see if you look hard enough. But you can never really say that someone is seeing something that's not there, because what we call reality is really just our perception of reality. Even the Ideals of Plato exist in our minds and through our perceptions--they do not transcend individual perception.

Grythus: That's an interesting theory. It is one way of expressing what is called "inyeon" in Korean (as you mentioned). I think the fact that there is a term for a phenomenon means that phenomenon is fairly widespread. I'm not sure, but the concept of "inyeon" may have something to do with reincarnation. I know that it does have something to do with the Buddhist idea of kharma. In essence, I think they are all describing the same thing--there is something that connects certain people, and different people express this phenomenon in different ways.

Now, as for ghosts and such--since it is day now, I will relate one of my experiences. I was in Robin Hood's Bay, a small village that clings to the rocks on the East Yorkshire coast in England. I was staying in a hostel right by the shore. There is a large common room, and a narrow hallway runs off toward the back where a staircase leads to a large, open second floor where the men's beds are located. I had spent a few hours in the common room, writing in my journal, and when dusk came I decided to put my journal away and head out for dinner. I walked down the hallway, which may or may not have had a light--I don't think I saw one. Anyway, there was just enough light to see by. When I got to the end of the hallway and stood at the base of the stairs, I felt a presence behind me, as if someone was in the hallway with me. I turned around, and in the dim light I saw a little girl in a faded but frilly dress, holding a doll, standing at the far end of the corner. She said nothing, but just looked at me, and her eyes were not the eyes of a young girl--they were full of time and sorrow.

I would like to say that I walked back toward her, or at least spoke to her. Actually, I turned tail and ran up the stairs like all hell was at my heels. I jumped onto the bed and stared at the stairwell, not daring to move until my friends came up. I never told them what happened, and I could see by their expressions that they hadn't seen anything. Interestingly enough, looking back through my journal now, I see that I never recorded the incident. I wrote down everything else that happened during the six months I was in England (including a ghost story I had heard in York just before arriving in Robin Hood's Bay), but I never even made mention of that hostel. Anyway, I casually asked the owner about the history of the hostel later on that night, and she told me that at one point it had been a witches coven. That certainly did not help me sleep any better that night.

Can I explain what I saw? No, but afterward I realized that, while I did see something in the dim light, the presence and emotions that I felt were overwhelming in comparison to the visual image. In other words, I felt her more than I saw her. The emotions emanating from that presence were not those that would inspire fear or terror, but they expressed a longer length of time than I had ever known, and a sadness deeper than any I had ever experienced. And yet I ran anyway, and I was terrified. I suppose I would probably do the same thing if it happened to me again.

[Edit: Heh, forgot this on the first time around after that long-winded post: Lala! Long time no see! Things been looking up for you lately?]

[This message has been edited by Suho1004 (edited 08-21-2002).]

Im always around Suho 1004 even if I dont post or reply.....

Things are much better now......the only thing is that reading this makes me nervous now that Im home alone (in front of the cemetery) ..... btw hows hand is that..hahaha

100 ghosts
Lala

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Hehe... I used to live by a cemetery, too, during my last summer at university. All alone in this tiny little place. I was writing a ghost story at the time, and I used to take walks around the cemetery at night for inspiration. I got way too into that story, let me tell you. Looking back on that time now, I'm pretty sure I was at least partially cracked. The story turned out to be the best thing I ever wrote at school, though.

Doh... Worng thread...

[This message has been edited by GrythusDraconis (edited 08-22-2002).]

Well, InI, all I can say is that I do *believe* and hold to promises of the afterlife. However, I have no first hand experiences to prove it. I've never come back from the dead so how could I know for sure? How can any of us?

Take the case of ghosts. Let's say we do see aparitions but how do we know they are actually dead people? They could be someone or something else. I find the topic more than fascinating, especially Suho's experience.

. . : slicePuzzle

That's a very good point there, Bugs. We don't know what exactly it is when we experience the "supernatural." Ghosts are one way of explaining things, but how do we know that's what they are? There is a lot that is beyond our knowledge and experience, things that sometimes can't "logically" be explained. I would share more, but I don't want to freak Lala out and I don't want you guys to think I'm some sort of pyscho.... I'm just a lunatic, after all.

Suho1004, someday I would very much like to hear more details about that story. Like I said, I don't have any personal experiences like that but I have heard some doozies from people I know.

Well, I have died...drowned, is the term, really. Kinda stupid, actually, I had just learned to swim (well, dog paddle). Where I lived at the time (Humbolt County - on the Trinity river, kudos to those who know where that is ) - and I severely underestimated the river (and overestimated my 'swimming ability' - lol). To cut things short, I got 'caught' in a roundabout...a section of the river had carved a niche in the bank of a cliff...and the water just goes around in circles. I had just swam over from the other side, and was pretty tired. Got caught up in the current, which went around, and around. I was just too tired to break from the current...and went around and around, until I lost the strength to swim any longer. Funny, what adrenaline can do...after going under for the first time, an energy kick. Wasn't enough to save me, though. Then came the real fear, as I went under again. Couldn't quite reach the surface, no air left...*breath* and in went water. Things kinda slowed after that...the cold feel of the water in the lungs...looking up at the surface, with the sun sparkling...and things went slowly black. No more fear, or panick, just a peaceful sleepiness...I do remember the velvety darkness, and a great sense of relief, of peacefulness, as if a great weight had been lifted. No bright lights, or beings, or God, just a very nice, peaceful blackness. I later found out (and as I came back to conciousness), that one of my cousins (Monty) had noticed that I was missing, and luckily found me (don't really know how). He pulled me out, and my older sister rescessitated me mouth-to-mouth and CPR. How long was I under? I don't know. I do remember puking that water up...and gasping for air with water-clogged lungs...a nasty experience.

So, is there life after death? Well, for me there was...but it was...nothing, really. I was concious of my own existance the whole time...but not my body. I was definetly somewhere else...but in darkness. I know there was nothing under my feet...I did have a feeling of floating, actually, but without vertigo (unlike the time I was weightless in an Air Force plane...one of those that 'simulates' weightlessness for 10-15 seconds). I say darkness, because there was absolutely no light. None. But instead of feeling terrified, I felt a great feeling of peacefulness...and timelessness. A sort of 'limbo', if you will. It was quite pleasant, actually.

Because of this experience, I have no real belief in a God (or Gods, for that matter). Because there was nothing. However, the conciousness that is me did exist...so I went through a lot of different religions, and beliefs trying to find something close to my experience...but found nothing really similiar. No heaven, no hell. No angels, no God, no ghosts, no spirits, nothing but me.

As for the question of perfect...yes, I have 'experienced' perfection...in darkness. It was perfect...perfectly dark. Absolutely no light, whatsoever. Not even those 'light-explosions' from eyes trying to see in nothingness (probably because in that form, I had no real 'eyes'). I do know what 'perfect' darkness is in reality here (was deep underground in a missle silo once, where the lights were turned off...yes, very dark. But your eyes do try to see, anyway. Therefore, you 'see' those light bursts, as the optic nerve tries to compensate for the lack of input. But in that darkness that I experienced, there was none of that...just velvety darkness...perfect.



[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 08-23-2002).]

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Couldn't all of these descriptive attributes be attributed to the euphoria induced by lack of oxegen or a release of chemicals into the blood just prior to death that induce this euphoria. It sound like being high on drugs to me. I don't know really not having ever taken any drugs but the visions and the rest could just be overactive imginations looking for something they want to see. The euphoria is real and so that goes into the Bright Light being soothing and calming, having no fear and floating in the warmth of its glow kind of thing. Just a thought. Has there ever been any chemical finding done in the brain or blood post-humously? A huge(dare I say lethal) dose of endorphins or something?


GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

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I definitely lean towards GrythusDraconis' point when it comes to near death accounts.

WS, that truely touched me, that was very entertaining and corresponding to this thread, very interesting.

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InI, I would point out that "very low cerebral activity" does not mean "zero cerebral activity". I really hate to make this reference but it's just like Miracle Max said in The Princess Bride, "he's MOSTLY dead".

. . : slicePuzzle

Well, both Bugs and GrythusDraconis are making a big mistake - that being that the concious self is seperated from the physical body...both in my experience, and in those who remember floating over their own bodies. Because the concious self is separated from the physical body, no amount of endorphins, or other physical reactions of the body can be held responsible for this type of experience - i.e. this type of experience is not a hallucination (and believe me, I know what hallucinations are, have had enough of them in my life).

Also, I didn't experience 'a rush'...just a feeling of great peacefulness. That is not euphoria.

However, it's very hard to prove anything...even when one has experienced it themselves, for others have not had this (or a similiar) experience - which leads to mistrusting of the truth of the experience.

Personally, regarding Bugs specifically, I can't see how he can believe that certain men were 'influenced' (i.e. inspired) by God to not only write the Bible, but also to perform a number of 'miracles', and then to turn around and deny the truth of such experiences (you call them 'near-death'...my people call them 'coming back').

Oh well, if you don't wish to believe it, that's ok...I know that it happened, that's all that really matters to me. Hehe, I can 'live' with it...

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WS, I am in no way trying to dismiss your experience, or Suho's, I am merely expressing my "best guess" as to how this works. You're correct that my working theory is that our consciousness is very much tied to our physical body. In fact, I'm very skeptical of an "immortal soul". Most Xians believe we have one but I'm just not sure about that. I believe we are physical in nature but we do have the capacity to interface with the spiritual world while our bodies are alive. But once we die, I believe we're basically worm food and that is where the resurrection of the dead comes into play.

I know this presents all sorts of problems and inconsistencies but the Bible simply doesn't tell us directly how these things work and therefore we are quite free to speculate. I hope that helps explain how I can say what I did above and not have it contradict divine inspiration or intervention for that matter.

InI, this is a very interesting topic, thanks for keeping it going.

. . : slicePuzzle

Ok, I have thought long and hard on this... And it pains me to say this because I too am atheist, but WS I am gonna have to take the pro side on the God theory...

WS: You denounced all faith/religion based on a near death expirience. But that's just it, it was a near death expirience, you didn't die. So maybe if you did die, you might come in contact with a supreme being as opposed to the peacefull bleak blackness. I understand you went through several religions trying to find an explination for what happened to you that day (which to me was disturbing), but I don't think you should denounce your entire faith because of a near death expirience.

And please don't throw anything at me for taking pro. *runs*


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

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Hmmm...InSiDeR, that's an interesting point that you make...ok, I haven't 'thrown' all religion in the garbage...rather, I have looked, studied, joined (then quit) most of the major religions in an attempt to 'find' answers...and using my own common sense and experiences as a guideline. I do 'tend' towards Zen...I really like some elements of it. I also like a lot of my peoples religion and beliefs...

However, I've never found a belief system that is totally 'in tune' with my experiences...

As to whether or not you believe in God, I feel that is always a personal choice. I hold you for no more and no less for that. After all, the choice is indeed yours, you are the only one that really has to be content with it. My opinon on the matter is therefore irrelevant.

@ Bugs...thank you for that explanation. Interesting, it is. Because of my experience, I am not so sure though. It does seem to me that we have a 'soul', or spirit, if you will. That we are more than just a physical entity. Also, tests of conciousness on a global scale have been done (man, I wish I could remember that link...I'll research it...it was here in the Asylum ahile back, after the 9/11 thing...) and seem to indicate that something does exist...

Shamans from my tribe are convinced that there is a 'spiritual world'...many claim to have journeyed there. It is hard for me to dismiss their claims...I am also aware that Yogas also journey there...and many of the eastern beliefs include this, as well.

The thing I find very curious, is that I have a 'set' of memories that never happened...I have a memory of drowning in a swimming pool...and of a man that did this to me. This never happened. I was very young...I think (a boy). Later, after really drowning, it hit me that the memory that I had from drowning was realistic in that the sensation was accurate...the lack of air, the taste of the water, the feeling of it in the lungs...very strange...

Actually, my life has been full with 'close' encounters with death...our house blew up ten seconds after I had left it...I have been shot at, fought with dogs with my bare hands, been face-to-face with both wild bears and mountain lions in the wilderness, had a rattlesnake two inches from my face, been sucked under by an under-tow, wrapped a .30-30 bullit in paper and set it on fire and observed it until it exploded, and many other close encounters. Many of these encounters resulted from my own stupidity, some of them, however, not.

What does that all mean? Well, just that either I am one of the luckiest people on the planet, or...somehow, somewhere, or something is looking out for me...that I am still alive, against all odds, for me is more than proof of one of these options. Which option is true, I don't really know.

And yes, thanks Ini, great thread...

Hmmm... Some rather vehement responses to things that were only thoughts not attacks... Go figure.

I have to agree with Bugs' estimation that the consciousness is related to the physical body and is affected by it. Whether the physical body induces the out of body feeling or not, who knows. That just happens to be my belief. As far as the Bible goes... I don't worry about it's specifics at all. mostly because I'm not christian but also because the seperation of the faiths is mostly a moot point. As InI was expounding on, most points of view, religiously anyway, are the same. Be better people to everyone else. of course this is the core belief of the theology of most religions not what the religion has twisted that theology into.

I believe in a spirit world. I don't necessarily believe that it transcends our physical bodies. It could be that we are able to tune into a great deal more of our physical world when we are in trance or near death. I find no reason to believe that our awareness of this otherworldly place is divinely inspired either. It could be, I just see no reason it has to be.

WS - Your mention of another memory of being drowned reinforces my belief in past lives. I believe that our 'spirit', if you will, our life force remembers all of our lives but in order for us to have perspective in each life and continue to grow we can't have our lives crossing over each other. Perhaps you were touching that extended part of yourself and beginning to regain your other memories.

*shrug* Just thoughts...

Thanx InI


GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

Well WS, the atheistic descision wasn't easy, in fact it was the one of if not the most importand/hardest descisions of my life. After reading several (and I mean 4) books behind the powers of Kabalah, I have become more aware of the possibility of a supreme being, I won't go into much detail as to how the book changed me (after all it was a jewish book supposedly proving god, but actually it helped my beliefs to become stronger), but for the most part, the alpha number with math and taro really keyed me into reality. I went to a catholic church/school for 5 years of elementary, baptised and reconciled. I spent some more time at churches with my mother: Presmatyrian, Methodist. And those seem even worse. It seems like they are too in touch with Jesus and they use daily examples to relate to the serman (and the examples suck, very irrelivant) and they pray about almost everything, they will sit there and even pray about the smell of the food, too pathetic... That and they stereo-type, very pathetic for a "casual" serman as labeled in the papers. Personally I respect the Jewish system of religion the most, don't ask why, read the Kabalah...

It became aware to me that there was no real scientific proof of any god or his existance, and that most of the explinations were too mystical and unrealistic, and nothing relates. It was all too easy for anyone to understand, and then the thought about opinions and eternal damnation flooded my mind. It seemed like you could persuade anyone something as long as you threaten them to burn in a torture pit for eternity if you don't live a certain way. Do you believe in everything you read? Heh, I remember when the battle for teaching evolution in schools came about last year. Of course we weren't aloud to learn "real" science were we? The stupid fucking stereo-typical, brainwashed, hypocritical, jesus freaks had to bitch about something they can't even begin to understand. They totally denounce evolution, without even studying it thouroly. "How could we possibly come from apes? I am suposed to believe we came from apes?" they might say, and I would say "Well maybe if you learned what expiriments scientist have used to conquor that thought you wouldn't waste your time bitching about something you don't know about, maybe if they tought it you would understand." Which brings me to another disturbing fucking point. The school can have christian religious clubs but not bhudist, muslim, or even satanic clubs. Oh sure you can put crosses on the wall but you can't put a Shieva or a pentagram now can you? Now thats unconstitutional, seperation from church and state, and state is a level of government, and public schools are funded by the state. Fucking hypocrites, they stick to you, like glue.

I haven't wondered off topic have I? Oh, I see...


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Prying open my third eye.

I believe in past lives....., when I was young (about 7 or 8) I used to dream I had to rescue two people.... I still remember their names... Lember and Lathember (I never heard this names before and never did either), another thing that happended to me is that i used to wake up and seemed to be in a huge big room beautiful somehow I felt like I was in a castle but then I would blink and be in my bedroom......kinda weird.

I have to confess that I never really believed in angels but two days ago (I went to nj for the weekend) and met a friend of my mom who made me do this kinda meditation.... first you have to keep a coin in your hand (it was a quarter) for about 5 min. and then lay down relax put it where your third eye is supossed to be (on the middle of ur forehead) and be blank... dont think about anything just feel ur energy..... my body felt kinda floating and the energy seemed to concentrate in my head my mind was blank it felt like i was dreaming but I was not (alpha) then i saw this angel it look like a white porcelain ornament (human size) then it started to move look at me I could actually feel him looking at me like he was in the same room beside the bed standing up and getting close to my face he was really looking much more different than I always thought angels look like then I guess I tried to look and kinda got out of my hipnosis and just stopped seeing this then this guy told me my angel is trying to communicate with me......now I have to say I do believe in angels and Im not telling you to believe this or not.........but be open minded because we just dont know anything about ourselves or this world not even about god...........

Energy does not die...........

100 lifes
Lala

*sigh* InSiDeR, you said ****ing 3 times in your post...is that even necessary? I can understand that you have emotions 'wraped up' in the points expressed in your post...but with such words, you are 'undermining' the maturity of the content...could you not find/use other words that maybe would express your emotions a bit better?

Yes, I do agree that those who run the evolution thing into the ground (or believe a literal translation of the Bible for that matter) have serious problems coming to terms with just about any part of science...because science refutes this quite soundly (esp. Geology, Biology, Oceanology, Ecology, etc...a very long list, actually). The problem is one of education (learning) as you somewhat pointed out. However, for those who believe in a faith, well, it's hard to hold science in one hand, and religion in the other, now, isn't it? Faith is mostly dependent on total belief...and science is not.

As for Religion and school...hmmm...well, I have never been aware of 'Religious' clubs being allowed in school...in my days (and where I went to school, they weren't)...maybe you go to private school? Or maybe things have changed? That I don't know. Personally, I'm against any type of religion in school, period.

Please try to cut down on the use of obscenities in your posts - first of all, that makes your post more...mature, and secondly, many may be surfing with 'obscenity' software installed...making it hard to read threads with such language in it...

Ok... sorry, I just get real into things that piss me off in that matter...

But go back and read carefully... I mentioned public schools, and I mentioned that I used to go to a Catholic school for my elementry years... But I now reside at Elizabethtown (E-Town) High School, it would be a public school funded by the government like every other public school.