Topic awaiting preservation: God? (Page 3 of 3)

Well, InSiDeR...taking apart this

quote:

---

'7 days then could me thousands of years now'

---

is really very easy...don't see why you had problems making them look like total idiots...

A 'Day' is defined as one daylight and night cycle (for us, anyway...). To seriously state the above opinion, is ludicrous. That a day/night cycle lasts 'thousands' of years...heh. Guess no plants would survive that night cycle...what do you think?

No, I don't 'see' that happening...

But back to my post...you see, the first option cannot be wrong (distance-wise), at least, not to the point that everything is within 20,000 light years from us...otherwise, because of gravity, things would be moving towards us...not to mention that most galaxies are more than 20,000 light years big in dimension (which would mean that we are within many galaxies at once, and not just one...).

The second option is a bit...more difficult to disprove (as are all 'miracle' things...). However, it would mean that the 'Big Bang' never happened...that everything came into existance 'as is'. Second, the amount of actual energy in the universe would be far greater (and I mean far greater...by an enormous magnitude) as one would expect...because the light that had to travel from all those objects that are more than 20,000 light years (that includes most of them) would then have had to be 'created' so that we could see it. Proving this, would suggest that a 'Supreme Creator' had his hand in the game...which would then 'defeat' the notion that God has left no 'provable' evidence to its existance. Of course, one would need to develope a FTL drive, to test this. This would, in turn, apart from the 'proving' thing, alter the close/open discussion...with that amount of 'extra' energy, the universe would be with all probability 'closed' (light has mass...).

quote:

---

don't see why you had problems making them look like total idiots...

---

I try...

But when people gang up on you in a dispute, they put themselves in the mental state where in this case 4v1, the 4 are more secure and never feel wrong as long as they back each other up on the comment that made..

Oh and I have succeeded a few times. But they never quit. Pisses me off.

[This message has been edited by InSiDeR (edited 10-08-2002).]

Hmmm...I take it you are still in High School...right? Well, if you get the chance, try taking a Debate class...that is, if it interests you. I did, and I never regretted it. My Debate teacher was also a wonderful teacher...and one of the toughest debaters I've ever come across...she was 'hell on wheels' when it came to Debate.

The Debate can be divided into many different parts...and teaches one how do deal with each area, either pro or con. Of course, it won't make you a better person, but will give you the necessary skills to support your position...which, later in life, is quite useful...it will also give you the experience of doing so before an audience...which is a very valuable experience in and of itself. I always liked that part..tearing someone apart before an audience...

Of course, one should also be prepared to be torn apart...keeps one humble, I suppose...

I would tend to think you often let your emotions cloud your better judgement...which is pretty common at your age (and many don't grow out of it... ). Learning to control the 'emotional surges' in a Debate situation (and therefore presenting oneself much better) is a very valuable skill...it is not really a case of convincing others, but of presenting your point of view better. Mastering the 'emotional plea' is very hard...and retaining control over a mass (or group) that have been 'emotionally influenced' is even harder. As is retaining mastery over oneself in an emotional situation...

One can sometimes see it here...flaming, for example. Or the 'witch hunts'...when the loonies start 'howling'...hehe...

TwItch^, and DG are what I would consider Masters of the 'emotional Debate'...they can reduce someone to nothingness with the scathing of mere words...but you will notice that it is a 'controlled' Mastery...they know what they are doing and rarely lose control of themselves...well, most of the time...

That's one of the difficulties of the 'emotional plea'...retaining control (as I said above).

So, even when they come at you in groups, there are ways to get around that. The biggest problem with such a Debate though, is when ones opponents are under the effect of Belief. Normally, a lost cause before it starts. Someone who is 'affected' by Belief, is not normally capable of being convinced otherwise...and normally degenerate into the 'emotional' arena...whereby if there are curious onlookers/an audience, this can be quite amusing...the first to lose their tempers (and therefore control), normally are not capable of supporting their own postion in the eyes of others (unless they share this Belief, as well).

But I digress from the topic...back to the original topic.

I therefore agree with Bugs that the Bible cannot be taken literally...which is one of the reasons that I don't believe that the Bible is the book of God. The other main problem I have with the Bible, is that in light of the fact that the Bible can't be taken literally, how, then, should one take it? And in what form? And who decides on how the Bible should then be understood? Because, if it can't be taken literally, then it can be taken in such a number of possible ways, that no-one can say which one way is correct. The Bible, as a History of the Hebrews, a collection of wisdom, and storehouse of interesting knowledge from the past aside, is, without the literal part, just a book, after all...and nothing more.

[This message has been edited by WebShaman (edited 10-08-2002).]

Gilbert - Oh my, that was some great reading... Fiction, no doubt, but it wa a great story none-the-less. I especially like this part:

quote:

---

Horrible battles between the humans and their ancient reptilian adversaries were fought in the bowels of the earth. Corrupted accounts of these conflicts made their way to the surface in the form of stories of alleged battles between the "teros" and "deros", and other legends of underground conflicts, such as humans fighting dragon-like creatures in
underground lairs, etc.

---

And these must be the people who are responsible for Magic: The Gathering, I'm sure. The similarities are astounding, haha.
However, if that's what you really believe, then no offense. To each his own. I just find it highly amusing is all, as I do most religions.

Uhhh...Lord_Fukutoku? You didn't actually read the whole article, did you? It's...long. I tried to, really...just...too...long.

My head hurts...EBE's everywhere...*looks around*

haha, no no no. Didn't make it the whole way through. Just the first several pages worth. Whenever I have a spare hour or two this week, I'll probably try and skim my way through most of it, because as I said, it makes great fiction. Well, the content at least is entertaining, the actual writing isn't real great, but that's where you have to use your imagination haha

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

WS - You're a really cool guy. I'll admit having butted heads with you earlier in my attendence in the asylum but I'm re-evaluating my opinions. Very good advice to InSiDeR.

InSiDeR - I'm liking this new leaf of yours. Keep it up. WS has a good point in relating to your... ahem... 'debate partners'. Let them explode first and lose their perspective. They're bound to make a mistake somewhere, especially if they quote the bible. Of course, proving this to them will just make them more emotional and not change their minds but you might make some other people think twice before dismissing your point of view, or believing what these guys are saying about you.

GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

Yea, Lord F, I wouldn't look at it as fact, but there are some facts mixed in. It's some guys (His name is Branton) depiction of piecing together a bunch of UFO reports and wierd stuff. I don't know if its all true (or even some of it), but it sort of goes along with a lot of popular myths. Like the Irish and the Tuatha De Danann, and the Native Americas and the Havmusuvs, and of course in Africa you have the Imanujela, and then there are all the ancient written texts of India.

Anyway.... Just like everything, nothing can be proven....

Tuatha De Danann - http://www.belinus.co.uk/folklore/Files9/WildeL046.htm

Havmusuvs - http://v-j-enterprises.com/mojave1.html

India - http://ebe.allwebco.com/Sections/AncientVisitors/Archive/Indian_Tech.shtml

Africa - http://www.davidicke.net/emagazine/vol6/spectmutwa.html



-^^-
--::--
\___/

Hmmm...GN, you forgot the recently discovered 'white tribe' (now extinct) in South America...

And yeah, there's probably something with all the 'exotic' evidence that has come to light over the ages...but until it is seriously investigated, we are only left with...supposition.

But it is fun...conjecturing...I kinda like doing that.

Hey it was a test to see how human will keep his promis to god...well he didnt too late...

Adam and Eve is not a REAL story... It's a symbolic story. What you have to look at is the moral behind it, not the story itself. God asked them to do just one thing and they did not trust him so they did it anyway, so they got what they got, they felt embarrassement being naked and got kicked of of the Eden. Don't take this as if God is a punishing God, no, the moral is that if you don't trust God which knows whatz best for you, well you're going to end up the wrong path.

Welcome to the Asylum Blinkie. Hope you enjoy the stay...and don't give your pills to wakky...

Now, I don't particularly agree, that 'God' knows what's best for us...maybe (if there is a God), maybe not. One thing I do believe, however, is that it's time that Mankind took responsibility for itself, and started charting its own course, good or bad. It's the only way we'll grow up, as a species, IMHO.

Absolutly, Webshaman.

As long as people keep saying God is on their side, they feel justified in doing all sorts of bad things. I mean look at what the Catholics did in Mexico - slaughtering Millions of people. Look at what American's did to the Native American's. Look at what we do to the trees and animals. All because we think we have God's blessing to 'be in control of all the other species of animals' (or however that quote goes.)

~Insert sig here~

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 10-17-2002).]

Ok Gilbert the problem is see most of the poeple in this damn world are fucking stupid even if they read the bible...take a look at Afgans, see Quaran says no bad shit at all, its they are fucking stupid cuz they cant relize what the hell they are doing...another thing in medieval Europe catholic church use to tortue people underground cuz they didnt go to church...u see u cant just talk about god bad or whatever...its all our fault we dont understand what he wants us to do or what we should be doing...none of us are perfect and none of us will be...even Jesus wasnt perfect, he was tempted...just dont find this offensive

Ruski - Maybe we don't understand what God wants because he has never told us.

~Insert sig here~

Maybe He never told us, because He's not there...


[edit: One lousy line and it still has a typo...
________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 10-18-2002).]

hehe...time for one-liners?

...maybe you just aren't listening.

Maybe he doesn't talk...

Cell 816

outcydr beat me to it! Along that line though, do any of you remember the band called the Church? Well, there's a song on their Starfish album called Lost and it has a line, "Bow your head down to worship some god, he never speaks to me I wonder if that's odd. Then he says, you're never listening."

No... No. He doesn't need to talk. He did his talking a couple thousand years ago. If you believe and have faith then you already try to follow the Ten Commandments and believe that Jesus died for you. Regardless of what symbology the Bible holds for you, its just a book. It isn't an instruction manual for how to live your life. If you follow the Ten Commandments and believe that Jesus died for your sins then that's all you need to do. (And Imagine, I'm not even Christian)

People need to take responsibility for their actions, pure and simple. If people would just learn to follow the simple 'rules' and quit trying to make the Bible mean something then maybe we could start getting along. The devil didn't make you do it. He provided a choice and you took it. You can't wipe away the results of what you've done by going to confession. The best you can do is clear your soul if you're truly repenting, which is to say you learn from your mistakes. Confession isn't an act of responsibility, it's an act of guilt. An act of responsibility would be facing the punishment for whatever you've done and taking the blame on yourself and then not doing the 'bad' thing again.

Now, since I don't believe in the Devil, or evil for that matter, I think people are just looking for a way to hide from who they really are. Everyone has done something 'bad' in their lives. I think people are afraid to face what's really inside themselves. In this striving reach for perfection of the soul they forget that they need to just live life and deal with things as they come along. Living life well doesn't necessarily mean living life perfectly. It just means that you are willing to truly repent(get punished) for the things you do wrong and learn from those experiences.

GrythusDraconis
"Be careful not to anger the Great Dragon for you are crunchy and taste good with Ketchup" T-Shirt Somewhere

well thats true dude god said what we should do couple a thousands years ago...even if human is not perfect Bible is ..its just like i said people dont understand it.

God does exists.... and the bible is important, people just dont know how to interpret the bible and they start making opinions of their own on what "God wants" and they make themeselves belive that's right. The problem is not God, its humanity and what they choose to be or do. They use God as an excuse for their mistakes. Don't take me wrong, I'm not a curch fanatic, I donn't agree with a lot of the things the church does and how sometimes they trie to control people. You just have to have faith in God, hes alright after all.

quote:

---

..its just like i said people dont understand it.

---

quote:

---

God does exists.... and the bible is important, people just dont know how to interpret the bible and they start making opinions of their own on what "God wants" and they make themeselves belive that's right.

---

Alright then would both of you please share with us how we are all supposed to interpret the Bible?

Both of those statements are the hypocritical hilights of this thread.

100+ replies already. And now we're just kicking a dead horse here. I think we've covered just about every angle we could, so why drive it into the ground?


makes a motion to close this thread and not create Part 2

[edit: Fooled ya... I didn't actually have to go and edit this...]

________________________________________________________________
-- Jack of all trades, master of that which has my attention at
the moment.

Unoriginal Cell 693

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 10-20-2002).]

"...please share with us how we are all supposed to interpret the Bible?"

at the risk of kicking a dead horse

i believe it pretty much interprets itself. like every other subject matter, it's a matter of study.

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation."
2Peter 1:20

prophecy: a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring
the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the
wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden

Use your head dude...try reading it, but dont just do what it says...if you know what common sense is well maybe you will undestand what bible trys to say...when reading try to compare or picture the mistakes people do and did back in that time....

quote:

---

i believe it pretty much interprets itself. like every other subject matter, it's a matter of study.

---

Thanks for that. Yes yes yes. That's the only way to understand something properly. There are thousands of years of history, religious thought, culture, etc. in the Bible along with, I believe, a divine message. In order to hear that message accurately, we need to be prepared to dig in with some disciplined study.

Ruski have you tried reading the Koran or the Torah?

...

Hypocrites.

InSiDeR, what definition of hypocrite are you going by? I'm not understanding why you're calling them that.

Ok, threads getting kinda long...continued here.