Topic awaiting preservation: Dreams

What if dreams are actually another dimension... say there are millions other dimesions out there that are almost parallel to ours but like this:

Let "-" represent daytime
Let "

...interesting...

Umm, dude, dimensions are based on height, width, depth. Umm, 4'th is allegedly time travel. And well, speaking of time, try reading 'A Wrinkle In Time.' Then you might better understand 'dimensions.'

As for dreams being other dimensions.

No.

*realm... sorry... How can it not be possible?

Insider - Hmm... Time itself is the 4th dimension, unless I'm mistaken... Time travel, is a whole other story...

But as for what Karn's talking about, it's possible. But then, anything's "possible," just not probable.

I don't think dreaming is any more a different 'dimension' than thinking is. It's all in your head, literally. But I suppose it depends on your definition of these different 'dimensions.' When someone is lost in thought, or daydreaming in class/at work, are they in another 'dimension?'


-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

Good point... I didn't take the philosiphy course but I'll ask my friend about the same question... I really never thought about that...

as of late... i have been dreaming with out being totally asleep... I dunno what to think of it yet... its weird.

                                     

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But then, anything's "possible," just not probable.

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Sphere eh .

No, the 4'th dimensin is time 'travel,' because itself is unexplained. I always thought of time as a circle, it repeats itself, but I'm not going into that right now....

No it doesn't create another dimension everytime you think. Your mind rests and you are put in what is called sub-consious. In this sub-consious you are illuded to what you think and what you think is much more clear in this sub-consious than it would be if you were awake, only because your mind is resting. Nerves are nice. So is that system that was named after them.


_____________________
Prying open my third eye.

Eye that might be just a mental or tired problem... :P

Insider... that's scientifically speaking though... I kinda believe that science can explain everything but philosiphy can contribute a lot more...

Sorry InSiDeR, but I think I have to go with Lord_F on this: anything is possible, however improbable.

I think it's a neat idea, actually. Do I think it's true? No, but who cares? It's fun to think about stuff like this. I think it would make a great idea for a short story, to tell the truth.

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No, the 4'th dimensin is time 'travel,' because itself is unexplained.

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All, I might regret this, but I'm gonna take a crack at that choppy sentence and try to make some sense of it...

OK, we agree that the first three dimensions are length, width, and height... Or at least their equivalents. Right? I hope... Even though I suppose depth is the 3rd... Just however you want to look at it.
OK, now for the 4th, it has to be something that we can measure consistantly and accurately. This would be the progression of events in a system (the system generally being the world around us). You can call this 'time,' or 'the progression of events around us.' But it all boils down to the same thing. A linearly measurable attribute that can be used as a constant base for different 'experiments.'

OK, now about 'time-"travel"' being a dimension... I'm still
Unless you were trying to say what I just did in a weird kinda way...

[edit: This is more from a point of view of physics and not mathematics. Which means mass and volume could be considered as seperate "dimensions" in a sense. For the mathematical interpretation see below. Thanks again Slime.]

-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 11-18-2002).]

Heh. Fourth dimension isn't time, nor is it time travel. (A wrinkle in time is wrong about this. Keep in mind it's just a fiction book written by an author with only so much mathematical background.)

The fourth dimension is a mathematical concept which is occasionally useful to explain real world occurances. The concept of time can be useful to *explain* it, but time != the fourth dimension. Don't believe science fiction novels about this stuff =)

Nods to Slime. Try deciphering a hypercube or hypersphere and you'll see what Slime means. There is nothing like going from the south pole to the south pole and only traveling the half the circumference of a sphere (3rd dimensionally speaking) to do it.

GrythusDraconis
Prince of Gold - Lord of Dragons

Yep, thanks Slime for pointing that out... And I would like to apoligize for posting without putting some sort of quasi-disclaimer on that...

However, this subject can make your head spin if you're not a math major (and sometimes even if you are).
OK, something that is one dimensional can be described by the set of real numbers ( R ). A number line, Algebra.
Two dimensions would then be R X R, aka the coordinate set (an x - y plane). All the possible pairs of real numbers. Algebra 2.
And three dimensions: R X R X R, the x - y plane with the addition of z, or height, a 3-d graph. All the possible sets of three real numbers. Calculus 2 and 3.
Then 4 dimensions: R X R X R X R, introduction to this in Calc 3, more in-depth in Abstract Algebra (aka Algebraic Structures).

However, since we live in a 3 dimensional world, we cannot measure or even perceive this 4th dimension, therefore time (which we only perceive slighty more) is commonly accepted as the 4th.

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However, I say we most certainly cannot reasonably visualize or physically experience time, for if we could we would know for certain if it were the 4th dimension, we could point in some direction and say, "look time is that way". What we can do is physically experience the effects of time.

Let us assume that time is the 4th dimension, since we are confined to a lesser dimension, we cannot feel or see anything more than a projection of time. It is essentially equivalent to "flat land" falling through the 3rd dimension. Our understanding of time is limited at best and outright pathetic at worst. -- Taken from The 4th Dimension (see below for link)

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Links of interest:
The 4th Dimension -- Particularly check the pages about the Moebius Strip, and Klein's Bottle, and Costa's Surface, and... Hell, check them all out. You can have all the PS pics you can stand, but this is real art, at least to me...

[edit: Wasn't this thread about dreams awhile ago? ]


-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 11-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 11-21-2002).]

Whoa. It's 2:30 in the morning here, and I think I just blew a circuit in my brain. It was probably a bad idea to check back in on this thread.

Then again, I was looking up some basic physics stuff for the design assignment over at GN and I broke into a cold sweat.

Brain functions shutting slowly shutting down... too bad there's nothing good on TV at this hour...

To be honest, the author of that page looks like they themselves have a slightly confined view of the fourth dimension, shaped by science fiction.

Time may commonly be accepted as the fourth dimension among many people, but it is not among scientific minds. Really, the fourth dimension and time are two *very* separate concepts. They do tend to complement each other, in that time may help to explain the fourth dimension to someone who doesn't understand it, and the fourth dimension is helpful in animations. Nonetheless, they are separate things.

That page asks "is there a 5th dimension"? Well, of course there is! And a 6th, and a 7th, and an 8th, and a 343256th. It's just adding on more xR's to what lord fukutoku said. It's just another number in vectors. Now, we can't *visualize* these dimensions, because we only live in 3 ourselves. And to say they "exist" is sort of like asking if the number line exists. Well... yeah... it exists, but you can't take a field trip to go see the number line, because it doesn't exist in such a *literal* sense.

But I didn't mean to take this thread away from Kine's original question. *He* meant the word "dimension" in the sense of "parallel universe."

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but you can't take a field trip to go see the number line

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Well, that just blew my afternoon... Why don't you just say we can't go see Santa too?

As for time and the 4th R being completely seperate, absolutely, kinda. But as he alludes to on the page about minimal surfaces, physicists like being able study things in the physical world. Whereas theoretical physicists are generally more uninhibited when it comes to the 4th R... So when I say time can be the 4th dimension, it's kind of playing with the definition of 'dimension.' Or just a different denotation of it...

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dimension - n - 1. any measurable extent, as length, width, depth, etc.; see also fourth dimension
2. [pl] measurements in length and width, and often depth
3. [often pl] a) extent, size, or degree; b)scope or importance
4. the nature and relationship of the units entering into some physical quantity [the dimension for speed is length divided by time]

fourth dimension - a dimension in addition to the ordinary three-space coordinates of length, width, and depth: in the theory of relativity, time is regarded as the fourth dimension: see space-time

space-time - n - 1. a four-dimensional continuum with four coordinates, the three of space and that of time, in which any event can be located: also called space-time continuum 2. the physical reality inherent in such a continuum

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And since I'm running out of time and have to head into school now, I'll just leave with that.


-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

Yes, please, let us return to the original question of dreams. My head is about to explode. Or implode due to the vaccuum between my ears.

So what you're saying KARN is that when we dream we tap into one of infinite dimensions and watch... ourselves or whatever that is going on there? That would sort of explain the feeling that I'm being watched a lot of the time. And people thought I was paranoid.

GrythusDraconis
Prince of Gold - Lord of Dragons

Doesn't the definition of Space-Time automatically assume that time is linear? If all time exists in all places then there is no definite measure of location in the continuum. Besides that time itself may carry its own dimensional(physical) qualities with it. We may view time as linear but in a reality one step up from ours(3rd dimensional to 4th dimensional say) it may be viewed two dimensionally. We may be part of another planar time stream made of linear time streams that we can move across rather than forwards or backwards in. Each time stream being called a parallel dimension. This included you could move up or down within a 3 dimensional time stream made of planar time streams made of time streams we understand, linear ones. Which (as it relates to us 3 dimensional beings) puts time everywhere at the same time with infinite realities given infinite possiblities.

GrythusDraconis
Prince of Gold - Lord of Dragons

Wait didn't someone post a hypercube site once before? I know it's a mathmatical concept slime, but it is a concept that is relative to time/time travel.

Sorry. heh.

It's an interesting theory. I'll say that much, and bite my tongue.

S^abaal ud T'a johtizuc^ ult'a Fedaro.