Topic awaiting preservation: Don't mention the War (Page 1 of 1)

It appears the German ambassador to Britain has complained because the teaching of modern history seems to concentrate too much on Nazi-era Germany:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/2559011.stm
www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,856541,00.html

I agree we should concentrate on all the aspects of the War (including all the bad things we did - like the bombing of Dresden) but it does seem a bit odd as it is pretty important and the rise of the right throughout Europe seems to show that people haven't learned the lessons of the past.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

My German teacher, who keeps up on international politics (since she was an ambassador up till 5 years ago), was telling us about this several weeks ago. My personal opinion is that people should learn about these things to keep them from being forgotten, but not to glorify them. I mean, I learn about the Japanese internemt camps in the US, and the other horrible thing sthat we have done, such as 175 years of slavery, and the reason that they teach it is so that it isn't forgotten and repeat itself. Anyways, I think that, knowing how it is a federal crime and all to be associated in any way, or show support to etc and kind of Nazi/GermanNazi/Third Reich organization/thing, that this may have just pushed it to far. It's almost like trying to make people think that Germany never did anything wrong, I mean, if this happens, three or four generations down the road, and it will be totally forgotten about. Bad idea if you ask me.

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You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

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On a related note, the Japanese altered Korean textbooks during the Colonial period to make themselves look like heroes and the Chinese look like pigs. Korea is still trying to straighten everything out. And Japan would also rather forget that all that crap happened than come out and apologize for it. Which is why I can understand why the Koreans still feel so strongly about it.

On the contrary, I want that part of history emphasized and re-emphasized but I don't want to leave the other atrocities out either. I want people thoroughly informed about how Stalin murdered more people than Hitler and I want people to know what happened in Nanking, but why stop with WWII? How about Cambodia, Sudan, etc? and on and on we go.

People conveniently forget about our ingrained ability as humans to become utter monsters towards one another. They tend to think after a while that those sorts of things can't happen anymore. I don't know how else to impress upon younger generations the horrors of which we are all capable with just a little nudge in that direction other than to beat them over the head with images and lessons from history.

~sigh~ ~SIGH~ It really hurts to know that history will most certainly repeat.

So on a lighter note, if you'll allow me this humorous aside: Do any of you remember what Mr. Fawlty said to the Major about forgiving the Germans for what they did? Something like, "yes well forgive and forget, Major... God knows how, the bastards!" John Cleese was brilliant in that series.

. . : slicePuzzle

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They tend to think after a while that those sorts of things can't happen anymore.

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And, then it goes and happens and the whole controversy happens all over again. It's like a cycle. I know, I did a project on the Cambodian Genocide, and the incarceration prisons there. But, If you go over there now, it is like no-one knows about it (Not that I've been over there, but I've heard).

Most of what I've learned on my school about WWII was pretty one-sided. We; the good guys. Them; the bad guys. The allies (Russians, Americans, Britons, Dutchies, Frenchmen etc.) have done some pretty awful things, too... it wasn't as black-an white as most of us were taught.

And, think about it. It's war. People will save their own asses first. Which has caused some really horrible things.

Going off of what Mahqa said, I don't like the way that school History textbooks portray actual historical events. For example, my Holocaust obsessed 7th grade history teacher: She said that the germans were bad, all germans, no heart. She even went so far as to say that she wished that Rome would of wiped out Germania. That seems pretty one sided to me. When I tryed to oppose her and say that a lot of the followers were forced into Nazi beleifs, brainwashed or captured as kids and forced to beleive this stuff, she got REALLY mad, not because she was opposed in school, but because it opposed her views of America being an all powerfull, all good nation, and Germany being a bunch of mean, heartless assholes. Anyways, that is how I was taught in the beginning, untill I read a bit more, and realized this. I hate our school system, and textbooks.; I don't know why anyone would want to propose information to people like that unless they were trying to brainwash us themselves.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

Yipes CounterfeitBacon, you're history teacher sounds a bit obsessed.

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She said that the germans were bad, all Germans, no heart. She even went so far as to say that she wished that Rome would of wiped out Germania.

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She called all Germans a bunch of mean, heartless assholes. I have a German friend. He's an asshole, but he's not mean and heartless. Does she know how many American assholes there are? Australian assholes? Our PM is one of 'em.

Kinda of relating to what Suho said... In every American history book I've seen, it still says Magellan was the first person to sail around the world, when in fact he's buried somewhere in the Phillipines... Why? Because America and Spain weren't exactly "friends" at that time, and it was his expedition, and he was Portugese, not Spanish. To be honest, I don't even know the guy's name that actually got credit for being the first around... (just know that he was Spanish...)
And there are undoubtedly countless other "mistakes."


-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

Our German textbooks are equally bad. They improperly state grammer and words to make it easier for us "Americans." A bunch of shit. It seems like the world thinks that Americans are stupid.

Example: They put in the phrase: Wie kommst du, when in fact it should of been Wie kommen Sie. My teacher said that it is because the textbook company thinks that we are stupid, which Is why she doesn't use them. And she doesn't teach us phrases, she teachers us grammer for the most part, and words as a secondary ting, so that you can put them together when it comes time. Of course, I can do that, but I don't think I like the geeral attitude towards America.

Raptor: My tb's say that too! Damn people.

How bad is the school system in other countries?

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

You are not special.
You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.
You are the same decaying
organic matter as everything
else.

<.~ - - - - :!: - - - - ~.>

The thing about history is that it's usually written by the "winners" or whoever's left behind to tell the tale.

And there's always more than one side to every story.

It seems kind of silly to focus specifically on the negatives of Germany. Germany is responsible for some wonderful things. The problem with focusing on the negative aspects of history is that it takes time away from the good aspects of history. The United States solves this problem by leaving all of the negative aspects of history books. We have chapters & chapters of the wonderful deeds we've done throughout history yet brief blurbs on the Trail of Tears or Slavery. We then act shocked and enraged when we find textbooks in other countries that talk about the United States atrocities. Hell, we bought the Afghans new books for this reason.

It's one thing to mention a brief period of importance in history, and the Nazi era in Germany is an important part of history, but history didn't end in 1945. When you emphasis a specific period so much that Germans are actually beat up in the streets, well thats a problem. The truth is teaching about these terrible black spots in history will not prevent them from reoccuring. Greedy men are what causes these things.

Jestah

Ya, we just learned that:

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The fist printing presses, invented by John Quincy Adams, in 1702 revolutionized the literary world.

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(AP US History textbooks, Revised edition, printed in 2000)

Duh! It's almost pathetic.

The problem with history is that it is like a moebius strip. Something bad happens, everyone is angered and embarassed by it, people try to push the negative feelings of the event to the back of their heads, people forget the event, and then the event occurs again.
It's really too bad, you know. We could go so far if we didn't make the same mistakes over and over and over...

Right on the money, Rameses Niblik the Third. But even if the people who were affected by the bad never forget, how do they pass that knowledge onto their children and their children's children? If you believe what Jestah just said, then we are wasting our time trying to teach history in order to prevent future atrocities.

Jestah, how exactly was the desire to completely eliminate the Jewish people in Europe driven by greed? And if you don't mind my asking... did you get that line from your professor or from your own understanding of how the world works? I guess I wouldn't mind so much if your professor pushed that on you *IF* I thought you had another professor who espoused the other side of the coin, but I really wonder about that. Perhaps you can help inform me just how that works in your PoliSci courses.

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Raptor: My tb's say that too! Damn people.

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Amazing the things you read when you've never posted in a thread CFB - I assume you meant Lord_Fukutoku?

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 12-14-2002).]

Sorry bout that!


I can't stand how much our history books screw up, and how they present America as the all around good guys of the world. Were not. I mean, I'm patriotic and all, but I hate the was that history is presented.

Umm... actually we are, relatively speaking. Measured against an absolute standard, we have to look up to look down.

. . : slicePuzzle