Topic awaiting preservation: International day of wemen (Page 1 of 1)

Today, it's the international day of women. Any comments to do ?

There are still persons that consider women as junk. Their behavior seems to come the middle age, where strengh was the more useful characteristic. But now this time is over. They still consider that women are inferior to them because they are not as strong. I wanted to say that they do not solely have the opinions of the middle age. They also have the half-debilitated brain.

edit: spelling



[This message has been edited by Moon Shadow (edited 03-08-2003).]

Um, you mean women, right?

As for women being weaker, well, just tell that to my wife.

Somewhat on and somewhat off the topic....
I really get tired of these sorts of days or months that "celebrate" something...
Personally it doesn't make a big difference to me...
But if there were a day declared "white male day"... I'm sure one or two people would get their panties in a knot over it.

Well that spoils my idea for International Michael Day then - and there was going to be lots if interesting things: head shavings, sitting by the phonathons, etc.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

ah.. well, fuck it.
most of the Michael's that I know are complete assholes anyway.

Most??

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Shit.
Well... okay all.

But there's gotta be one or two decent one's out there somewhere.

Yeah right

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

hrmm... yea.. you have a point.
And that point only backs up my original point...
these days are silly. no one deserves 'em.

I'm having an International Decade of the Emperor starting next year so perhaps some of us do

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

You didn't get the memo?
That's been cancelled.

I presume they thought it would be so popular there would be safety problems and no one would get any work done what with all the sponsored Emperoring that was due to take place.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

No... it was decided that the idea sucked altogether.

I live everyday that isn't designated as somthing else, as white male day n.n, and you're right, somone would get pissed over it, if it was made official. Go figure, all the sudden we would be "opressing people with our skin tone, and genetalia"

I'm going to the moon, I cant stand it here anymore.

But Michael it seemd like such a good idea - there were wigs and robes (and facial mirkins) filling warehouses on 4 continents. It seems such a pity to throw it all away

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

hmmm...i wasn't aware there was a day for women. what are women supposed to do on 'international women's day'?

this is a bit of a cynical/humerous rant so don't take it TOO seriously and for the sake of argument, i'm speaking of men and women in the US...and it will be a bit off topic..but what the hell....everyone gets at least one "your a dickhead" post...this will be mine lol
i personally think men have gotten shafted! through the progress of women's lib, the 'traditional' roles of men have been muddied. we expect men to have a good job/make good money....but we don't want him spending that money on us...because we have our own good job/money and we don't want him 'controlling' us. we want men to have manners.....but how dare that bastard open the door for us...we can do it ourselves! we want men to be kind, sensitive, caring....but the first time he cries over something on the evening news it's 'get rid of that wussy'. we want them to have good family values...(there's 2 things that can happen here) A).at the first sign of trouble we pack up the children and go and then scream for child support (which comes from the money we didn't want him controlling us with) and say that he's not a good father (but we won't let him see the kids, cuz he hasn't paid the child support). B). abort his child, without ever telling him, because it wouldn't be good for our career right now. we want men to 'need' us....but everyday we bombard the poor schmucks with the message that we don't need them! hell...aside from a few drops of sperm every now and then...we really don't need them.
now, don't get me wrong, i'm all for women having equal rights! i enjoy voting! and i'm not saying we should turn back the clocks and live in beaver cleaver world. i'm just saying that it's a confusing world for men. i also realize that not ALL women are like this (i'm not like this) but alot of women are! i also don't have a 'fix' for this....i'm just sayin that it would suck to be a man today!!

with that said...i think i'll go find a march somewhere and do a little bonding with my 'sisters'

[edit] to clarify 'beaver cleaver world' is a reference to an old show "leave it to beaver" where the dad is the bread winner and mom stays home, cleans house, bakes cookies and isn't in charge of anything. [/edit]

[This message has been edited by Lacuna (edited 03-08-2003).]

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everyone gets at least one "your a dickhead" post

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Thats OK I know people who have used their years allowance in a day so go right ahead..........

and:

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beaver cleaver world

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Now there has to be money in that as some kind of theme park

[edit: It appears from a quick chat with Lacuna that we are talking at cross purposes. She was refering to a cheeky little chap called Beaver Cleaver from the sitcom 'Leave it to Beaver':
www.google.com/search?q=%22beaver+cleaver%22

I was thinking of the slang term for the male genitalia:
www.google.com/search?q=%22beaver+cleaver%22+slang

it just goes to prove that it is indeed a funny old world]

I agree that we men are currently in a 'damned if you do damned if you don't world' (I'm always being told I'm too nice) but part of the point is not to highlight the problems of women in the developed world (although they do have problems manners and civility aren't really the big issues) such things are really designed to help highlight the ongoing of problems of women in the developing world (like forced circumcision, 'slavery', prositution, lack of rights, etc.).

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

yes, i do realize what it's for....i think that the things going on it developing countries does need to be addressed.. that's why i did say i was speaking of the US lol

Just how unacceptable is it in the politically correct mentality to point out that the worst conditions for women will be found where Islam is held in high regard?

Bugs: None as far as I am aware as long as we also acknowledge that women's rights are also being abused our large corporations outsourcing their work to the developed world where women's reproductive and educational rights are abused so we in the west can get cheap clothing.

[edit: clarified unclarity]

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Women's Day..... hmmm. Is that anything like Ladies Night?

Iran is high on the list of countries that need some adjustment. In the spirit of this topic I found this story: http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,80591,00.html

I am hoping that we will be able to see a revolution in Iran with minimal need for any military action like we're seeing in Iraq. This kind of thing supports the idea that the people there are very close to pulling it off.

The self-immolation reference is horrifying toward the end of the article.

Emps, agreed that what you point out is also a problem and needs fixing. I just hope we can also agree the two are in no way even close to the same severity.

I was also thinking that we will not see anyone thanking the US for making it possible for the burkas to be cast off in Afghanistan. It should be pointed out all the same.

Bugs: won't all that stop in 9 days when we take over the Middle East?

on a more serious note:
Last year I watched a documentary on National Geographic about honor killing. It was very graphic and I cried through almost all of it. It really drove home just how much we take for granted. I don't believe that it's a religious thing. I really think it's cultural. On the documentary they made the point that the majority of people commiting these atrocities were illiterate and went off what their spiritual leaders told them was in the Quran.

Lacuna, I'm very sorry the things that will happen very soon but I am also very hopeful a great deal of good will come out of it. Of course, only time will tell and you and I are not the ones pulling the strings. Please believe me though, there are no easy answers to any of the evils we are currently faced with and I am trying my best to make sense of it all.

Honor killings, yes, absolutely chilling. I've heard quite a few accounts of this and I agree that it traces back to Arab traditions and not strictly Islamic ones. I don't know what sort of things you believe can be done to put an end to this terrible practice. I do not believe any military action will change this but only a change of heart in the culture can do such a thing. This will take decades to stamp out I'm afraid. I really don't know how it will all turn out but we can't bury our heads in the sand about that part of the world anymore.

I heard the author of this book, Honor Lost: Love and Death in Modern-Day Jordan by Norma Khouri, interviewed and it was heart breaking. The abstract reads,

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Two young women in Jordan defy their families to open a hair salon, but when one of them falls for a Catholic man who enters the salon, she is ultimately killed by her father. The author was forced to leave the country after writing this work secretly in an Internet cafe.

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Bugs, I saw an interview with her on the Today Show awhile back. It was heartbreaking!

I don't know what could be done, to tell you the truth. Educating people would be the only idea that I would have that could possibly change things.

I am slightly concerned that the war against Iraq is seen as a war against Islam

For starters Iraq is a secular state (hence the reaosn he and bin Laden don't get on) and this kind of thing isn't necessarily part of Islam but is either more broader than one religion or is influenced by more local customs (as female circumcision is).

On Honor Killing:

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"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.

The practice, she said, "goes across cultures and across religions."

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Of course there are other 'barbaric' customs associated with Islam that need to addressed (and not just related to women) I just don't think war is the answer - education and the free flow of information are much more effective. Things like capital punishment (ah now hold on isn't this an issue elsewhere??)....

and Bugs said:

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Emps, agreed that what you point out is also a problem and needs fixing. I just hope we can also agree the two are in no way even close to the same severity.

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I'm not sure how we rank and quantify suffering but corporate repression of women is easier for people in the west to directly influence through ethical purchasing. Changing a whole religions outlook on women may take a little longer - although that is no reason why we can't address that at the same time.

There is, of course, a rather arrogant assertion in my statements above - that our more 'enlightened' view of women's rights in the West is 'right' but I suspect that is a broader ranging debate

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Dear me, I hope we're not coming down with a slight case of imperialist guilt.

Trust me, stabbing your daughter 30 or so times because she held hands with a man without your permission is *not* enlightened and it is not arrogant to condemn it. But granted this is much easier to do when you're not a moral relativist, which I'm not. Would it be safe to assume that you are? I genuinely curious how you would characterize your point of view on that because I've never asked you directly.

You also brought up another very interesting point about non-cooperation between a secularist Iraq and religious fanatics like Al Qaeda. It has been documented that these types of relationships do exist when it serves the purposes of both. It gets into that whole me against my brother, my brother and I against our cousins, my brother and cousins and I against everyone else mentality.

I would be concerned about people seeing an attack on Iraq a direct attack on Islam. Do you hear that from people? I really haven't heard much of that when it comes to Iraq but I've certainly heard it said about Al Qaeda.

Looks up at thread title...

Looks down at recent posts...

Looks up at thread title again...

Um, not that I'm against a nice, controversial thread, but I thought we were talking about International Women's Day...

Lacuna: You'll get no complaints from me on your initial post. And I like how the Beaver Cleaver thing works on two different levels...

My wife considers herself a feminist. She also gets pissed if I don't hold the door open for her (not a common practice in Korea, but something that she has been exposed to on our trips to the States and with her foreign students). I wish more feminists were like her...

Some more cultural info: In Korea, women handle the cash. The man goes out and earns the dough, and then it all goes straight to the wife, who then gives the man an allowance. Yes, this is the way it works in our family, too, and I don't have too much of a problem with it.

Korean women also don't change their family names when they get married. My wife hasn't changed her name (and doesn't plan to), and I'm sure this will get her labeled as a feminist if we ever move to the States. I find this thought amusing.

Hmm... the thread drifted from the original question? Sound the alarm!!! I'm good at doing that, sorry.

I would be interested to hear from the women here how they think their conditions in the Western world are now. There has been lots of progress but I'm sure some feel there is much more needed.

(I was just joshing with ya, Bugs. We all know that I've steered my fair share of threads off the beaten path. )

I'd also like to hear more from the Asylum women, but I wonder how many are going to drop into a thread titled "International Day of Women." Maybe I'm just weird, but the idea of having a day for women seems more demeaning than anything else... it just underlines how forced the whole thing is.

I think there are a few areas where things could improve. Equal pay would be a good start. Women make up 55% of the civilian work force but we are making about 18% to 32% less than men in the same field. Insurance rates would be another place where change could help. Women are routinely charged more for health and vechicle insurance, but tend to be more healthy and drive less (and have less accidents) than men. Older women get less in retirement packages than men do and are more likely to live in poverty than their male counterpart.
I think one area that needs more improvment still is domestic violence. It's not as bad as it was 20 years ago...but it's still not as good as it could be.
The 'glass ceiling' (i believe) is steadily continuing to rise, so that's a good thing.
All in all, I would say we've got it pretty darn good.

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Women are routinely charged more for health and vechicle insurance, but tend to be more healthy and drive less (and have less accidents) than men

[...]

I think one area that needs more improvment still is domestic violence. It's not as bad as it was 20 years ago...but it's still not as good as it could be.

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In France, the insurances understood that and the women are less charged than men.

8 women death per month in France due to domestic violence. This far from being good I think...

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All in all, I would say we've got it pretty darn good.

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I wouldn't say that. I have a concrete example to tell you : I asked one of my student friend why she didn't wanted to try to enter the best highshools... She has the same marks as me, so she has the same probability to enter, but she replied : "Women are less good than men in studies". That shocked me since it came from a woman, and it has another terrible meaning : even girls think they are inferior to men. So I don't think the society really changed about that...



[This message has been edited by Moon Shadow (edited 03-10-2003).]

ok well...maybe society in france hasn't changed, but in the US, how things were and how thing are, are very different!

here's a lil story for ya....
i had the privileg of being raised by a very strong and independant irish woman. when i was younger (nearly 20 years ago) my mother wanted to work at the local lumber mill (in montana, where i grew up). they had good pay and benefits and she could do the job. there was only one woman working at the mill at that time. she was there as the 'token' woman. she tried for a year and a half to get a job there. she drove to the mill every day to see if they had looked at her application. they FINALLY hired her. she earned the respect of a majority of the men working at the mill after she was hired because she worked hard and ended up working one of the hardest places to work in the mill (the green chain). she reveled in the fact that she could work that job and still keep her nails and make-up in perfect order. hehehe now, there's always got to be an asshole in every group...and the one at the mill worked the other end of the green chain, with my mother. one day, the boards coming down the chain jammed up and she hit the stop button and was trying to unjam the boards....the guy that worked the other end of the chain, started the chain up before she had unjammed it and and 12 foot board came flying off the chain at about 40 miles per hour and hit her thigh. the impact ripped every tendon, ligament and muscle from her knee. that was the last day my mother worked at the mill and the last day that she ever walked right again. she got on with her life...it didn't keep her down in any way. she was a fighter and still is to this day. she's had 12 surgeries on her legs and she will have a couple more in the next few years. there's days when she can't walk at all. that particular mill closed down a quite a few years ago....but 2 more opened up near by. my cousin and my aunt are just 2 of alot of women that work at those mills doing jobs that had always been held by men. so, in our community, my mother helped open a door for women. i'm proud of that!
the guy that did this to my mother didn't loose his job, but he did loose the respect and friendship of most of the people in our town, which, when you live in a small town, that's worse. she did get a fat settlement from the mill so that made raising me a bit easier. and she did of course, get revenge... a few years after the accident (and many surgeries on her leg) she was at the bar.....and the man that she worked with came in....he thought he'd be friendly and talk to her and buy her a beer....and she let him. then she kicked the crap out of him in front of God and everyone! may not have been the 'right' thing to do....but she felt better

sorry it's so long...just felt it needed to be told. i'm sure there's thousands of stories like this out there about women. i find it sad that they're not told more often.

Michael - About having a "white male day"... At the univ across town, they are having an Caucasion-American Day Close enough for ya?
And yes, people have already complained


[edit: oops, it's actually Caucasion-American Day, not "Anglo-American"...

-- Unoriginal Cell 693 --

[This message has been edited by Lord_Fukutoku (edited 03-11-2003).]

Lacuna, it's your brand of feminism that gives me hope That was an awesome story, thanks for sharing that. I want more "strong" women like you and your mother and far fewer "whiners" that take up so much of the media spotlights.

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Michael - About having a "white male day"... At the univ across town, they are having an Anglo-American Day Close enough for ya?
And yes, people have already complained

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haha... *shakes head*... only in Texas...
Get yer camera ready man... and find a good spot... there's bound to be some conflict down there..... be ready to get the goods and snap off some good pics for us..

Bugs: You said:

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I hope we're not coming down with a slight case of imperialist guilt.

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A lot of us 'Old Europeans' do (although for some reason a lot of us Brits are somehow proud of it - bringing civilization to the savages Old Man!!) as we have seen the shocking mess we tend to make when we try and impose our beliefs and ways of doing things on people who don't want it (Iraq? The Algerian Problem? The Belgian Congo?). In some ways we hope we have learned our mistakes and are trying to prevent American cousins from making similar mistakes whos aftershocks are still being felt decades and centuries later on. Its interesting that the most 'repentant' 'Imperialists': France, Germany and Belgium (and pos. Russia) are those trying to slow down the US/UK rush for war.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor