Topic awaiting preservation: Georgia students plan white-only prom

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85737,00.html

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 03-24-2004).]

Raptor: Thanks for that - I must admit that, in my ignorance, I didn't think such things still went on

[edit: In fact its a weird story as the integrated dance was the only one in the county so the newsworthy bit would have been last year no?]

___________________
Emps

FAQs: Emperor

That was something I found odd too, Emps. Apparently (not from what the article says, but people) there are separate proms (ie, heterosexual/homosexual proms) all around the US.

It's kind of tough to fight for equality when we divide ourselves amongst labels.

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 05-02-2003).]

Jesus.

Land of the free home of the fucking morons.

:::krets.net:::

I went to high school just outside of Atlanta, left Georgia for good in'85.
Apparently not much has changed......

When I see (read) stories (items) as this, a part of me is raging. When that subsides I tell myself it is always good to know what other people embrace.

Easily avoided after that.

what i find odd:

quote:

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The school has 439 students, 232 of them black.

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the black students are actually a majority but not by much, that's an amazingly diverse student body. and their junior class has both a black AND white president? sounds like there's an adminstration there that's not helping move de-segregation along. not that i knew it needed to be moved along, i'm with the rest of you ignorant folks that didn't think people did things like this anymore. wow.

chris


KAIROSinteractive

Well, this part concerned me most

quote:

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Until then, parents and students organized separate proms for whites and blacks after school officials stopped sponsoring dances, in part because they wanted to avoid problems arising from interracial dating.

--FOXNews

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Man, sometimes, it just seems that some areas are caught in a time-warp...it's sad...

What problems arising from interracial dating? Anyone? Does that mean all interracial dating, or only Blacks/Whites?

I visited Georgia once . What i heard while I was there was sickening... They are bigot morons for the most part. Still fighting the Civil War......and to this day still trying to fly the confederate flag. It is the same in most southern states with exceptions of course.

"whenever I find myself on the side of the majority, I pause and reflect. " Mark Twain

Once, I kissed a black girl, and I died. Let that be a lesson to you all.

*moulders silently*

quote:

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What problems arising from interracial dating?

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Heh... I've been known to be a problem

Seriously though (as we all know) there aren't any - unless you're ignorant, uneducated, bigoted, etc etc.

[This message has been edited by Raptor (edited 05-03-2003).]

**speechless**



.:[ Never resist a perfect moment ]:.

I'm disturbed, but I have come to expect 'anything' from your country "only in America"


...xpi...

"nuff said"

quote:

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I'm disturbed, but I have come to expect 'anything' from your country "only in America"

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Yeah, because only in America do you find morons, bigots, and assholes.

Well, except for where you come from, they obviously have at least one...

:::krets.net:::

I find myself in agreement with krets here...

you two would say that. typical americans.

i can't believe how racist you guys can be.

you're all the same.

Yes... Xpi. You are disturbed.

GrythusDraconis
"I'm sick of hearing that beauty is only skin-deep. That's deep enough. Who wants an adorable pancreas?" - Unknown

Oh yeah, only in America...

...and wherever reitsma is from.

Didn't mean to leave you out there bud...

:::krets.net:::

Well, at least I can admit that yes, I am racist...comes with the territory.

Those among you who are not, please raise your hand...*looks around*

No-one?

*shrugs*

WebShaman:

Not so fast with that shrug of dismissal.....

Although I have my share of prejudices, race is really not one of them. This is not to say
that I like everyone, but this is generally determined by their actions, and or associations. I have enjoyed the company of people of every race, creed, and color I have encountered. I have
also despised certain people from each of the above groups, but this was never determined by skin color, or lack of skin color.

Hey, I have my share of faults as a human being, probably more than we have room to list here (for a complete list, talk to my ex-wife), but a Racist? Nope

A couple of thoughts, one from the Simpsons:

Lisa : Dad, you can't judge a place you've never been to.
Bart : Yeah, that's what people do in Russia.

...and the other from a stand-up comedian whose name escapes me:

"It's so stupid to hate people because of their race, when there are so many good reasons to hate people on an individual basis..."

WS - I'm curious. In what way do you consider yourself a racist?

[Edit: Correcting my grammar, which is sad, because she's such a nice old lady...]

[This message has been edited by Wangenstein (edited 05-07-2003).]

I think WS' point isn't that we're all necesarily a racist in the terms that it has come to be used.

Rather that, despite having friends and enemies of various races, and despite being accepting of other races, it is virtually impossible to say that you have *no* form of prejudice (prejudice doesn't mean to hate....it means simpyl to 'pre-judge' - to categorize) based on race, among other factors.

As far as 'only in america'. Heh...yeah.....they're having seperate proms. In other parts of the world, different races settle their differences in much more mature ways like, you know....genocide.

Yes I am prejudiced toward assholes.. did not realize there were so many... and let me try and guess where they are mostly from? What If f told you I am American, then that gives me the full right to say what I want about my own nation right? Face ot there is more shit going down in America than in any other place on earth. Not just the war issue but the whole fabric of society is riddled with disease... Now you keep thinking I am putting one nationality over another... never have I said such things but as usual you are lost without a target...

If I say I don't like red, who are you to say I prefer blue... I have never mentioned blue...ever. Thats how your reasoning works. For want of a target, you invent one.

GrythusDraconis: Judging from your perspective of reality and life according to your collective postings er... you more than qualify as a seriously disturbed individual. I do not often see an example of such internal confusion and contradiction. Have no fear you are not alone... I see you have company.

DL-44: Stop hiding behind what the rest of the world is doing "...like we are bad but they are badder?" What the hell kind of reasoning is that? Yes the rest of the world does all sorts of crazy things...but you are the worlds biggest hippocrites... You claim such advancement, such knowledge, such civilty, such culture.... such a lie...

...xpi...

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 05-07-2003).]

Thank you DL...that is precisely what I meant.

One may prefer the word 'prejudice'...but in effect, it is a form of racism...

It is a pre-clouding (or programming, if you will) of certain 'facts', feelings, sayings, etc about this or that race and countries...one sees it everywhere. It happens when one is a child, and becomes 'hardwired# in the brain...later, one may become aware of this, and take steps to corrigate it...but it remains...it takes a concious effort to resist it.

'All indians are warriors'...er, no. They are not even born as 'warriors'...it is not an inheirent ability...nor is sneaking up on people, or tracking, etc. Just an example...stereotypes.

Prejudice is not a form of racism. Racism IS a form of prejudice. I have some pre-conceived ideas about most vegetarians, this means I am prejudiced. It does not mean I am a racist.

While I have already admitted that I hold some conscious prejudices, I will also admit to having initial unconscious reactions to individuals based on various factors, how tall they are, how lean they are, their posture and body language, etc.

I fail to see how this could be interpreted as "racist", especially when these
initial reactions aren't even limited to the human race. I am effected by the same factors with dogs, cats, and even reptiles.

Well, maybe I am just a bit racist... I can't stand Iguanas. After all, they are lazy, shifty, and you can't trust 'em. We just won't stand for them in my neck of the woods.

norm - while I see your point, and agree with it actually, I think perhaps you're missing mine. The word 'racism' has come to hold an extremely negative stigma, and rightfully so with the extreme acts that have been done because of it.

However, that doesn't change the fact that prejudice involving race is still technically racism.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'll call you a racist...but I think people make far too much effort trying to say that they never hold any sort of prejudice in regard to race, when it's simpy not true. As you say, the same holds true for just about nay type of physical (or non-physical) trait as well, which makes it all the sillier that people get so defensive wehn it comes to this one particular trait...

But anyway, this is obivously a seperate issue from racial segregation and the moronic bigotry that spawned this topic.

Just thought it needed a little expanding upon

Xpi - when I find a point in one of your posts, I'll be happy to respond to it. I see *you* have no problem finding (or is that 'inventing'?) targets... =)

DL-44:

I believe I do see your point and also believe that it very closely parallels the one I meant to make: Yes there is a huge gulf between initial reactions to physical differences and the moronic bigotry encouraged in certain cultures.


my apologies if I've gotten a bit off the original track of this thread. I do that occasionally.

Not at all - it's been a team effort

Who the hell said you could get off topic in my thread?

Disclaimer: That was pure sarcasm, in case you didn't pick it up.

Wangenstein, I think that quote was from Chris Rock. The rest goes something like:

"It's so stupid to hate people because of their race, when there are so many good reasons to hate people on an individual basis. I don't hate you because of the color of your skin, I hate you because you're a fucking idiot." [note: badly paraphrased]

Racism is crap. Prejudice is crap. Why can't we all just get along?

Oh yeah, we're humans.

Stupid obsolete humans...

The "whites only" prom makes me want to puke my innards out repeatedly. I absolutely detest racism.

That being said. What do you all think about minority graduation ceremonies on so many of our university campuses? What do you all think about the move away from "racial integration" to "separate but equal" instead?

Why is it when an all white, or an Anglo-American event is planned it will draw heaps of scorn from some but those same people plan (your minority here)-American events all the time? I personally mourn the fact that this country is abandoning the idea of racial integration and racial harmony for a re-segregation scheme.

Your thoughts?

. . : slicePuzzle

I agree wholeheartedly, Bugs...*waits for Lacuna to swoon*

Personally, all events should be open to anyone...why keep them closed, and private, or limited to a 'few'?

Exactly...I do think a lot of people lose sight of that Bugs.

Racial integration and acceptance has to work *both* ways....

You remember that political quiz thing someone posted up in the Ozone forum a couple weeks ago? One of the questions on it really got me thinking. It went something like this: "Do you consider America to be a) a melting pot of cultures OR b) a multi-cultural place where different cultures are practiced and respected?"
Remember that one?

I thought a lot about that when I was taking that little quiz. My first reaction was (a), then immediately followed by (b) and then I struggled. Why isn't this the same thing? I asked myself. Why can not both of these things be true?
The answer is simple, I finally concluded. White Anglo-Saxon Protestants (the majority) have a culture. It differs a bit from German families to English families, just as it differs a bit from Bugs' neighborhood in Southern California to my neighborhood in St. Louis, Heartland USA, but basically it is the same culture.
People of color, Jews, etc have other different cultural traditions, values, stories etc. -- recent immigrants even more than 3rd or 4th generation -- but ALL (or at least most) have some non-European traditions.
A melting pot does not mean "you immigrant/person of color/minority/whatever do just like us white people." Carrots thrown into a soup both take on the flavor of the broth, AND add their own distinct flavor to broth. The carrot is still a carrot, though affected by the rest of the soup. The soup would not be the same soup, were it not for the carrot.

I suppose I can't speak for everybody, everywhere, but I can say that where I live there is an attitude that the carrot should no longer be a carrot when thrown into the soup, and damn if that soup is gonna take on any flavor of that carrot.

Eating mexican food consists of going to Taco Bell. There are 'real' Mexican restaurants in town, but the average white family simply doesn't eat there. Experiencing German culture means getting plastered on Bud Light at the annual Octoberfest downtown.

We still haven't acknowledged our HUGE (and still growing) Bosnian immigrant community. St. Louis has the second largest Bosnian community in the US and they are the fastest growing immigrant group into the St. Louis region. They have mostly set up in the South City area and have established good businesses and restaurants. I don't have hard numbers but I'd bet that less than 1 in 20 non-Bosnian St. Louis residents has ever eaten at a Bosnian restaurant...maybe less than 1 in 100 have ever spoken with a Bosnian immigrant outside of the restaurant/storekeeper setting.

The point is, instead of the mainstream looking to meet, learn about and mingle with what is different, those who are different are expected to give up everything from their 'other' culture and start eating nowhere but McDonalds and the local steakhouse. That is no more a 'melting pot'...that is no more 'integration' than an all white prom, a minority graduation ceremony, the NAACP or anything else like that.

My parents would never call themselves 'racist', but I can tell you that all growing up I had no contact with any other culture, exept through school. My parents did not/do not have any non-WASP friends. The church my parents took me to was 100% WASP. We did not eat at 'ethnic' restaurants (unless one calls 'Olive Garden' once/year ethnic!) We did not go to a single non-WASP cultural event of any sort. There were non-WASPs at school all growing up, and I was never discouraged from seeing them at school, but I never once went to any of their birthday parties or whatever else kids do, nor did they come to mine. We did not play together after school. We did not meet for homework study groups. I'm not bitchin' or whining, simply explaining the way it was. If white people really want integration, they haven't shown it...at least not where I live.

It is ALL cultures' responsibility to maintain the melting pot ideal. Until white people (at least here in the mid-west) make an honest effort to, at the very least learn about other cultures...until non-WASP cultures see themselves reflected (in however small a way) in mainstream US culture, can we really blame those 'others' for holding on so tightly to the only stories and traditions they know?

I'm not saying I think all-black graduations are the answers to the racial issue in the US. I'm simply saying you wanna change something you have to change too. Start by inviting someone else to dinner tommorow night.

Ohh Jesus, America...where I have come to?

Sorry, mobrul, but I think you are mixing things up a little. There is a distinct difference between the Melting Pot theory and the Soup analogy you're using. The Melting Pot theory says that if you throw together a bunch of WASPs, a few Hispanics, some African Americans and so on and so forth, then eventually, they will all melt together and - tada! - we've got ourselves the American prototype. According to the melting pot theory, Irish Americans and German Americans and Italian Americans and [insertnamehere] Americans will all give up their cultural identities and merge to become simple Americans. The new plain Americans are predicted to have some elements of all these groups, but they are one big entity. The melting pot theory has been fading away as the common theory for integration, because we have seen that it does not work. Take Germany as an example. The Germany consist of many different regions with sometimes quite big cultural and even lingual differences (heavy accents) - most reknowned example is probably Bavaria. But according to the melting pot theory this shouldn't be, because by now they should all have melted together and - with a few exceptions - be practically all the same.

The newer, in my opinion more accurate theory is known as the Salad Bowl theory - more like your soup image. You dump some apples (WASPS), some carrots (African Americans), some pears (Hispanics) etc. in a salad bowl, and certainly they'll mix a little, but they'll retain a lot of their original "taste". If you eat the salad, it'll basically taste the same throughout, but if you pay attention you can still see (and taste) the initial ingredients.

So I'm not quite sure to what you were referring - you were throwing around the "Melting Pot", but explained with an image that sounded a lot more like "Salad Bowl"... or am I just missing the point? (wouldn't be the first time... *gg*)

notime

Just because I'm paranoid that doesn't mean people aren't following me.

Interesting. I've really never heard this 'salad bowl' analogy...it sounds similar enough to what I was trying to illustrate with by bowl of soup.

Really, I had one simple point and (as usual) used way too many words to illustrate it:
If you are serious about integration, don't spend all your time bitching about white-only proms and black-only graduations. There is a time and a place for complaining, but it doesn't mean anything without an effort to fix the problem.

If you are serious about integration, invite your black neighbor over for a BBQ, start a conversation with the Eastern European produce manager at the supermarket, ask the white guy down the street to go jogging with you, say hi to that asian couple you see on the bus every morning. Eat at a Bosnian restaurant, visit a mosque. Whomever it is that is near you, put some work, some tiny amount of work, into getting to know those people as people with their own history, values and culture -- not just 'that (fill in the blank) guy down the street'.
Integration is a product of the concentrated effort of ALL involved.

Couldn't just keep the insults to the backward racist yokels in question. Just had to insult the whole state:

quote:

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I visited Georgia once . What i heard while I was there was sickening... They are bigot morons for the most part. Still fighting the Civil War......and to this day still trying to fly the confederate flag. It is the same in most southern states with exceptions of course.

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quote:

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I went to high school just outside of Atlanta, left Georgia for good in'85.
Apparently not much has changed......

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And I'd be happy if you both don't come back. You seem as close-minded and judgemental as the bumpkins in question.

Just because a bunch of racist idiots do something stupid doesn't mean everybody in the state is a bigot. A large amount of Hip-Hop and alternative music comes from Georgia. CNN is based here as are several multinational corps. The Augusta National, arguably the most exclusive country club in the world, has black members. Not all of us down here are bunch of backward-ass hillbillies.

I mentioned this article to the people here in my office and everybody was digusted, including the native Georgians. I've lived in several states in the US(Colorado, Maine, Wyoming, Kansas) and Ive found they all have some bigots.

As for those of you who think "Only in the US." -I agree with DL-44. You aren't any better or more progressive than us.

--tiki

tikigod:

I spent a significant portion of my life in Georgia. I met some very fine individuals and a great many less than fine ones. The same can be said of everywhere I have lived.

What was unique about the areas I lived in Georgia, when compared to the other places I haved lived in the USA, was the undertone of racism that was so prevalant in the culture. And in Cummings Ga, racism was not an undertone, it was a way of life.

I realize that there are probably many open minded people living in Georgia, and I don't see how my comments could be taken as a slur against them. If racists are the exception to the rule in Georgia now, I gladly stand corrected. Perhaps alot has changed in 18 years, but that would really surprise me.

BTW- I'm glad you like your home. I happen to prefer the northwest and will not return to Georgia. We all should be where we would rather be.... Right?