Topic awaiting preservation: universal language (Page 1 of 1)

what do you think is the most universal language and why?
? music, numbers, love, sex, ...anything?

i'm leaning toward philosophy here, but feeling really silly too
thinking about sex-a basic instinct that is really hard to escape the effects of

*please pass the peacepipe

it was proven some time ago that farts are, indeed, the universal language.

hmm so how do you say "DL-44 is trying to be funny" in fart language, DL


but... I would say, it's love and mathematics



[This message has been edited by asptamer (edited 05-11-2003).]

my guess would be.....Java, but don't say that around the old Perl hackers.

Physics

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

umm...English? LOL

hmmmm....i've used my middle finger to express feelings in 5 different countries and no one has ever had a problem understanding it... so..i guess that would fall under sign language??

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Cell 1007::SST

ahhh yes, emps... physics... only it needs math to be explainable. Or english : )


t'=t/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)

actually physics is the universal language:
Just watch the physics of me punching someone in his face... you bet he'll get it ;-)

interpretive dance

Universal language? Facial expressions. Especially smiles.

it would have to be physics, maths is still a language that relies on symbols for its interpretation meaning that any not taught to interpret it cannot.

Unmoving Wisdom

The process of Evolution...

We can assume there are some underlying universal constants and elements - you could for example use the hydrogen atom as a basic unit of measurement which you could then use to extrapolate to deonstrating some universal constants which would allow us to use them as building blocks to establish the rest of our universal language.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emperor:

how many hydrogen atoms in one of those Farts DL-44 mentioned?

I thought it was Esperanto.

the human touch...

norm:

quote:

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how many hydrogen atoms in one of those Farts DL-44 mentioned?

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I'd have to analyse DL's anal emissions to be sure. However, it seems that the human average is somewhere between 0.3-3 litres/day:
http://www.hp-h.us/p/zardoz/bodily/108296.htm

with say an average of 15/day:
www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/fart.asp

the average male fart is 110 millilitres:
http://archive.salon.com/health/feature/2000/02/24/farts/

[edit: Sorry missed a bit out:

Hydrogen accounts for around 20% of the gases in a fart:
www.disinfo.com/pages/review/id1135/pg1/

which means that each fart on average has about 22 millilitres of hydrogen in it - now if I can find the molecular weight of hydrogen and its density we should be nearly there.......]

Now the hydrogen (as hydrogen sulphide) is what causes the smell so if they are smellier then they will have more hydrogen in them. So perhaps I really need to quiz the Goddess about the state of his Dutch Oven to get a more accurate assessment of the hydrogen.

A quick back of the envelope calculation would mean that using a hydrogen atom as the basic unit of the universal language then one of DL's farts would be the equivalent of an encyclopedia's worth of information. Probably.

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Emperor:

Wow!!!

If all of those hydrogen atoms of just one of those Farts could be split, the energy released could end our dependence on fossil fuel.

Of course in the wrong hands, that same power could destroy all life on this planet. Silent but deadly.....

/* I seem to have gotten off-topic once again. Damn.*/

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music, numbers, love, sex

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Not everyone understands music, some people are deaf, some people hate all things equally, some people never have sex (like me, Mr. Ugly Face)

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Physics

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Not everyone understands physics.

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i've used my middle finger to express feelings in 5 different countries and no one has ever had a problem understanding it

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If you did the same thing in all 298 countries, would they respond in the same way?

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Facial expressions

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Some cultures have different facial expressions for different situations.

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the human touch...

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Assuming that this is a universal language, you would assume aliens would be able to understand it as well. Who here has been touched by an alien?

Perhaps there is no universal language after all. Our interacting and changing with everything around us, and the very motions of our universe, could not be called a language. Ah well, there's always phrasebooks.

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Some cultures have different facial expressions for different situations.

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Like where? What cultures? You'll be hard pressed to find cultures that use different facial expressions for basic emotions. A smile is noticed around the world as a sign of happiness; a frown is noticed as a sign of sadness. Even a grimacing wince is recognized as a sign of pain.

Facial expressions = universial (which is in this case, earthly).

Pornography is the universal lang... guage....

i'll shut up now

Well first we would have to define language as communication? (I think thats where we are going). Then we would have to accept that there are many forms of communication through all the senses, conscious and subconscious. Too many for me to list here, but one thing they all have in common for optimum performance is to be aware of the possibility of communication. And the best way I have found for doing that is to be STILL.
So that's how i came to the conclusion to your question outcydr "what do you think is the most universal language and why"? Must be stillness. ....

Or.....Theory number 2.......,,,,,Must be sillyness,,.,.

Of course, if you have a Bable Fish, you are as the say, "Laffin'"

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"Must be stillness. ...."

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I think we must rule out both 'stillness' and 'silence' as possibilities, due to the existence of both children and puppies...

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Like where? What cultures?

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How about Tibet, where sticking out your tongue is considered in a different light to what we see it as?

Besides, if it is a truly universal language, that means that every single person can speak it. Are people with paralysed faces not included?

My 2wo cent$.

A facial expression is a... well, it's an expression of emotion. What does express? The, "Nyah nyah, I'm making fun of you," emotion?

And for a language to be universial, it doesn't necessarily have to be spoken by everybody... just understood. For example, say I'm mute. I can still understand English, but I can't speak it. It's still something I can comprehend, even if I'm incapable of speaking it. And I'm still capable of writing it - much the same way somebody with an paralyzed face can still draw a smiley face to get her point across.

Sticking out one's tongue is a deliberate gesture, not an emotional facial expression. Try again.

Now that I am considering this topic more seriously, I'm leaning towards Sex (but then, I usually lean towards sex) because all types of lifeforms have the ability and the urge to make more lifeforms, or the urge to at least stay in practice for doing so.

But very often, the making of more life forms doesn't involve sex.

I'm sure there are many examples (I'm trying to find my copy of Desmond Morris' Manwatching' as I'm sure it gets mentioned there):

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In Asian cultures including Indonesia, smiling is also used to cover emotional pain or embarrassment. When the students are late to come to the class or they can't answer the questions from the teacher, they are possible to smile to cover their embarrassment.

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from:
www.ialf.edu/kipbipa/papers/MuhamadHandiGunawan.doc

and this summary suggests that there are cultural differences (although the basics seem to be fairly globally recognisd):

www.sciencenews.org/sn_arc98/9_19_98/Bob2.htm

Although this would support the arguement:

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FACIAL EXPRESSION:

Facial expressions are perhaps the most important non-verbal way in which emotions are manifested. A number of studies have indicated that the facial expressions of certain primary emotions can be judged accurately by people from diverse cultures. Facial expression is an indicator of emotions and attitudes as well as stress makers. For example, to change the statement into a question, you might raise your eyebrows as you raise the pitch of your voice at the end of a sentence. Facial expression and voice tone are the most important channels that indicate emotions and attitudes. Emotions should be compatible with desired intentions. If one appears angry while trying to convey a friendly attitude, one is not likely to be successful. Norms define the standards regarding what can and should be expressed where. The norms related to expression of emotions vary according to culture.

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non_verbal_communication.php

However this might screw up an attempt to use facial expressions as a universal language:

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Facial Expression
Many scholars believe that facial expression is innate, that is, we are born with the
ability to use certain facial expressions to express certain emotions. Therefore, the
same facial expressions are used for the same emotions in every culture. However,
different cultures have different rules about the circumstances under which emotions
can be expressed. Some Westerners have the idea of the "inscrutable Oriental," that is,
that Asian people do not show their emotions at all. It may be true that Japanese do
not show their emotions, especially negative emotions, as much as Americans do.

In one study that demonstrated this difference, the researchers had Japanese and
American students watch an unpleasant film. When the students were alone watching
the film, their facial expressions were similar. However, when they watched the film
with others, the Americans showed more emotions than the Japanese did.

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from:
nonverb.htm

This seems a reasonable summary:

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Facial expressions.
1. People are more likely to interpret facial expressions accurately if they interpret them within the entire communication context.
2. Facial expressions can be individualistic and do not convey cultural meanings with which we are familiar (smiling in Japan to hide sorrow)
3. Some facial expressions are thought to be universal (smiling, joy)
4. The display and intensity of emotion is culturally based.

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www.westga.edu/~jhubbard/chapter6_mgt327.html

Anyway the thread topic says universal so I stick with Physics.

On this planet a combination of facial gestures and mime usually work as long as you aren't trying anything too complex. However, a true global language (at least according to my grandafather) seems to be speaking English loudly and slowly to foriegners.

[Emp edit (multiple times): Trying to stop the UBB from screwing up as it seems intent on breaking the links]

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Emps

FAQs: Emperor

Wes:

I bet when the single cell organisim divides and becomes two, you will hear it ask the question "so, was it good for me?"

I'm taking a stand on this: There can be no life without sex.

[This message has been edited by norm (edited 05-19-2003).]

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There can be no life without sex

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... there can be... but it will only involve unicellular organisms, certain types of worms and other organisms that are capable of asexual reproduction : )

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I'd have to analyse DL's anal emissions to be sure.

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well, you'll find a large sample set in the asylum - just search for his posts.

I'm kinda with Emps - though I think the Table of the Elements is probably the closest thing to a universal 'constant' there is...and therefore, one could use it as a universal language...this, however, is dependant on those communicating having 'discovered' this information.

Truth is..

and in second place comes Music.

Most definately Music: An exquisitely beautiful and yet dangerous force . It soothes, it heals, it changes minds and lives without effort, for music is physics, it is science, mathematics and spirituality and love. Music is vibration, ocilation... which is life itself, it trancends all language, race and sex and almost species effortlessly, even the spiritual realm is saturated with it.

[This message has been edited by Xpirex (edited 05-28-2003).]

Assuming one can hear, or sense vibrations...