Topic awaiting preservation: Day of prayer - Saturday, June 21st (Page 1 of 1)

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World Soul Retrieval - We will "link-up" as individuals and circles to transform our fears and grief through ritual, to use our energies and the empowered tools of our paths to support the spiritscape of our earth and to restore and strengthen the energy matrix of our World Soul.

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Not sure who would be interested in this or not, but I thought some of you may be. No matter what your religion, it would certainly help if on Saturday, you prayed for an end to fear and pain in the world, and tried to help to make this process as powerful as possible.

Here is a link to what exactly they want us to do to help the world come together better,
it should be interesting. ---> Meditation


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[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 06-18-2003).]

but how does that actually help the world come together better?

I have to be honest, I cannot support this effort as is. While I applaud it's good intentions, I can't participate in something that is rooted in powerlessness. The only power in the universe that can bring us all together would be that of Christ (you all know where I stand on that). So what I will do is the same that I usually do, and that is to pray that more people come to know peace through the work that has already been done on our behalf.

As I read through a few pages from those links, GN, the thought did occur to me that there may well be a physical energy that does link us all together. It seems quite possible to me that someday we will discover an actual measurable link that binds us all and pulls us collectively up or down depending on world circumstance. This would be consistent with prayer and positivie thinking efforts. I think the bible says somewhere that God causes it to rain on the just and the unjust alike. What I take that to mean is that we all share a common human experience in this life whether we believe in the source of that life or not.

So it would not surprise me that if someday the shamanic activity and other related religions/traditions weren't totally off on what they were tapping into as it relates to this binding energy. But I would still point out that the author of creation would still have to remain as the source that one would/should want to access directly, especially since he has made it so easy to do.

. . : slicePuzzle

It helps the world come together by fixing the energy connection between us all. In certain areas the connections have been broken, and through this meditation, it will hopefully be repaired.

Like I said, I doubt a lot of you would be interested in this, I just thought I would let you know about it.

Is it not conceivable that the creative force you call "God" is the same creative force that shamanic or other spiritual traditions tap into? Whether they call it that or not? Why do they have to be "wrong"?

Does it really make that much difference that people choose not to call that force "God", but simply look at it a different way? I would think that God, in his infinite power, would be able to reveal Himself to people in a manner consistent with their cultural background. The face He shows to an individual would be pretty personal to that individual. Is it so wrong not to follow the Christian dogma - but simply to have belief in the creative force, regardless of dogma?

From where I sit, there are many ways to get home... I have a feeling I already know your answer to this question...

To bring so many folks together, with the aim of generating just gobs of positive spiritual energy, is a bad idea?


Cell 617

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Bugs - I can't participate in something that is rooted in powerlessness.

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Not sure what you mean by this?

Hmm.

I would have to agree with Bugs in a way (obviously not about the christ/god issue.....). Why do we need an 'event'? Why does it always have to be a gimic?

Why can't people just live their lives in a more positive manner? Wouldn't that be more productive? Wouldn't that better help repair any "energy connection" that may be broken?

I don't know, I just don't get this need for global events. *Live* it. Don't make a fuss about a single day....

It's not a gimic.

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DL - Why can't people just live their lives in a more positive manner?

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This is the whole point of it, to make it possible for people to live their lives in a positive manner by fixing the energy web that binds us all together. The breaks in this web, caused by wars, tyranny, and oppression, cause people to be unable to live their lives in a positive manner because it allows fear and pain to enter into them.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 06-19-2003).]

American society is all about gimicks... Sure, it would be great to get everybody to live their lives in a more positive manner. But what are the chances of that happening any time soon?

People use these types of events as demonstrations of what can be accomplished if everybody focuses on a positive outcome. Even if what's accomplished isn't immediately evident... It still creates positive momentum in the lives of those who participate... Like ripples on a pond...

Humans are herd animals. We follow where someone leads... Someone has to stand up and show us what to do, before a large group of us will actually do it...
If we're lead to something positive? How can that be bad?




Cell 617

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...unable to live their lives in a positive manner because it allows fear and pain to enter into them

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You can't live without pain and fear. You can't have positive without negative. There is no light without darkness. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction...etc, etc...

As for it not being a gimic.... come on....

Bodhi - I guess you are right in a way, but it seems that the vast majority of people who go in for this type of thing do it in form of lip service *far* more than in any real sense. Much like christianity, or any other group who claims to do good, really.

Sorry DL, but you know nothing about Frank and the things he has done. This is not a gimic, and the people involved in this are not some sideline spiritualists.

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You can't live without pain and fear.

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Yes, you can. I agree with the rest of your statement about opposites.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert Nolander (edited 06-19-2003).]

Well, there are always going to be people who pay lip service to religion. Hedging their bets, so to speak... But among those, you'll find very devout people who really believe that this stuff works.

Again, it would be really nice if everybody was a good person - but you did say yourself that good can't exist without bad. And then there are all the shades in between.

And I still can't see that gathering the direct focus of a large number of people, in a positive direction will have any bad effect on the world. If it has any effect at all, it can only be good. And that appears to be the idea.

It only sounds chintzy...



Cell 617

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It only sounds chintzy...

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hehe... =)
Not saying it it'll be bad....just that these things always seem overly silly to me...

GN - life without any pain or fear is really only half a life. Pain or fear are often part of what drives people towards positive things. It grounds people, and it gives a point of reference for the good things in life.

You've got to figure that if there's not much pain or fear, there's not going to be much of anything particularly good or exciting either.

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just that these things always seem overly silly to me

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Me too - but some people need these types of things. "Tailor the lesson to the student" sort of reflects how I feel about this sort of thing. If it's at all useful to you - by all means, have at it...

Personally, I can't get into these kinds of group spiritual activities. It doesn't mean I consider myself better than those who do, or vice-versa. I just handle my spirituality differently. I'm pretty quiet about my displays... I do think it's important to have some kind of belief in a creative force. I sort of feel that athiests are missing something... But I'm a firm believer in "to each his own."


Cell 617

Of course, you have to remember that atheism does not exclude 'spirituality' (or belief in some kind of 'creative force').

It just puts it in a different perspective.

I also put a lot fo stock in "to each his own".
Not that it stops me from sharing my opinion on such issues



[This message has been edited by DL-44 (edited 06-20-2003).]

GN, the "powerless" point I was making meant that this exercise will not invoke the source of all. God is the sustaining force of the entire universe and I don't see any benefit in not going directly to what will help.

bodhi23, since you already know my answer and I really believe you do, I'll forego that part of the reply But you also asked about how is this a bad idea. I'm not sure I said it was a bad idea... I did say it falls short, in so many words. If these people never tap into the true source for their salvation and sustenance both physically and spiritually, then I suppose it is definitely better for them to live lives that are more in line with the common set of morals we all know to contribute to a more comfortable society for most. IOW, the Asylum is a good microcosm to show how differing beliefs can coexist along with a mutual respect and even mutual support of one another on a human level.

DL, would it be safe to say that you would be open to accepting any kind of physical phenomena regarding this theoretical "creative force" but would strictly reject it as soon as it crossed to the supernatural realm? If not, then help me understand better just what an atheist does not exclude from the possible.

. . : slicePuzzle

Well, that is, of course, a tricky area Bugs.

I would say more that the physical and the "supernatural" are not necessarily two different things...

Because something is less tangible than something else does not make it otherworldly, or supernatural.

Our grasp on the physical world, advanced as it may be compared to a thousand years ago, is still very far from complete. Our understanding of our own brains is still very incomplete.

With so incomplete an understanding, it seems foolish to assume that anything is beyond the physical. It just takes a bit of an adjustment to your view of "physical". =)

To me it encompasses more than it seems to for you....

Bugs - no, you didn't actually say it was wrong, per se... But you did sort of insinuate such an event was useless. I guess that was what I was reacting to. I disagree that events which focus multiple awarenesses on positive energy and outcomes can be considered useless or "powerless." Positive thinking is powerful in it's own right.

I guess my concern is that it seems like you're stating that other spiritual traditions have no power, because they are not rooted in Christ. Do I read you right?

Is it completely unbelieveable that the creative force you call God, manifest in Christ, is perhaps the same creative force honored by other spiritual systems, just not referred to in the same way? We come from different backgrounds, and necessarily, our awareness of the divine is different... But does that different awareness of the divine negate the actual power of the divine?

DL - we only call "supernatural" what we cannot prove definitively exists in the natural world... Since no one's proven that the force we call "divine", exists in the natural world, it is considered supernatural...
I understood atheism to be the belief that there is no supreme creative entity... I understood that if one believed in some supreme creative entity, that person would then be considered agnostic. Now I haven't looked up atheism in a long time, so I could be off somewhat... (the public access show the atheists have on here where I live is really hard to watch, so I haven't learned much from them... )


Cell 617

Yes, positive thought itself is very powerful. I think that is the root of the power of prayer. Not that there is a god there listening, but that the positive thoughts of the person achieve things in and of themselves.

Which of course is part of why I personally have such an issue with religious things. It's not the supernatural that's doing anything, it's simple positive thought and conscsientious behavior that does it. Now, obviously, some people can't do those things without the extra motivation that religion tends to offer....I just wish they could

Now, next point: Creative force, creative entity. Two very different ideas.

A force, of some sort, I have to believe exists. Is it "supernatural"? No. An all powerful entity, or an entity that consciously controls the things in our universe according to some plan, no...I don't beleive in that. Now, I tend to see the term supernatural as not what we can't explain, but rather what we have decided to call unexplained.