Topic awaiting preservation: Layout, care to share any ideas...? (Page 1 of 1)

I somehow find myself lost and baffled by the overwhelming talent on this site. And forgive my ignorance, but having no real training in this, I have to ask a very general and god awful question!

Has anyone 'out there' got any golden rules / cardinal sins for those that are, like me, getting to grips with print-based work.

I have read top ten / top 100 tips, in mags, like computer arts and though they make sense, they tend to be just that, lists.

I was wondering if anyone had anything to share...? similarly to the other designs/skins I see people display all the time.. what about page layouts? (done in Quark???) ~ Do any of you have designs that you'd care to show/discuss...?

cheers
kit

this is not a page layout ... but it was designed for printing ...
i did this in my visual identity class ... the project was to redesign a glue can for a compagny that make from school to industrial glue ... this design is quite simple but its a very big change from the original one which i won't post here because i don't wan't to reveal the compagny's name ...

feel free to comment

see the file here

I'll post a layout here for you to see, but as far as looking for sources of inspiration, just remember that everything you read is a "page layout".
You can develop your sense of design by asking yourself questions while you read, or watch tv or movies. Ask why a layout looks good or bad, look at type, white space, colors, everything on the page.
Golden rules are a good place to start, but begin to recognize when and why they should be broken.

I'm ranting again, arn't I... too much coffee this morning.

Me Again?

whites are very important ... lots of designs i see contain way too much stuff to be really effective because the reader or viewer has to search to see what he/she is looking for ... keep things simple and always ask yourself if everything is really necessary to the design ... don't be afraid to remove things ...

and of course, you have to choose the good fonts ... you can do amazing designs and layouts, but if you use typography that is not appropriate, then your project loses a lot ... good font choices can improve a ***lot*** what you do

Kit - I think it would be helpful to us in helping you if you gave us more direction. What is your background? What aspect of print are you getting into? Are you trying to break into the business? What do you already know?

Right off the top of my head (and not really applicable to only graphic arts), I would suggest focus. Pick one aspect of print work and learn all you can about it. Once you are satisfied you know enough, then move on to another focus. Avoid saturating yourself with a wide array of knowledge ... you will tend to know a whole lot of nothing if you catch my drift.

I've worked on military magazines, military newspapers, and now I work for a small town newspaper. I am far from a "guru," but maybe I can help point you in the direction you want to go.

Help us to help you ...

As a Prepress Coordinator, I would say the most important thing is to first get a set of Spec's from your printer and/or prepress house. Work with customer service rep or coordinator, they should help you fully understand the requirements. If not find a printer that will.

I would working up a mock-up design then seek out a printer. Review the design with ther CSR and ask about press limits and file requirements etc... Get a spec sheet.

Far to many designers do all the work up front only to find out that the job is not reproduceable in it current form. Then have to rework the design to fit bleeds, folds, and print limits on a deadline.

---A few things you should find out---

Should you supply the images separated to CYMK or RGB (and they seperate the images ) Whats the cost.

What setting should you use to separate your RGB images.

Do they require ICC profiles to be inbeded or not.

Accepted file types (TIFF and EPS etc..) It's best to avoid JPEG for print work.

Ink Density limits

Image File Resolution ( In my case it;s 300 dpi for 4-color/ grayscale and 1200 dpi for bitmaps )

Accepted font types Postscript or True Type (in most cases it will be Postscript Type 1)

Press Trim and Binding limits. *

----

* The last thing you want to happen on your 800,000 count run is, a press operator at 3:00am calling " Your Postal Barcode is trimming off. Do you want to redo the plates and hold the press. By the way that will cost ya. $400+ an hour + cylinders and prep. " Or you could lose your press date and miss you bind and mailing windows.

No fun I can tell you. ( I drove 65 miles at 3:15am)

jstuartj





[This message has been edited by jstuartj (edited 01-12-2002).]

Ouch, jstuartj
Good point, always start with a firm knowledge of your print specs. While you are just starting out and learning, your printer/pre press/service bureau techs are your Best Friends.

Me Again?

Hi there kit!

When I started working with quark my boss gave me a couple of magazines and told me to try to copy the design. That was for me, a great way to learn how to make layouts, and also a good way to learn the program. I still do this a lot from time to time with the difference that I dont really copy them in quark but I try to keep the good parts in my head...

Three advices though, that comes to my mind in page layout:

1. White space (I prefer to call it air though)
2. Readable fonts
3. As said above: use other mags as inspiration and to give you ideas. Try to figure out why they did the layout in that way and how they thought.

good luck!

Tommy

Oh my - so many questions to answer: okay here goes, forgive me if I dont credit those who asked the question, or if this is all in the wrong order!

B/G to me:
i have studied various different meeeeja courses, all vocational/practical, have dabbled in photography, video, film, DTP and others...

wanted very much to work in tv, as a lot of students see the glamour etc etc.. unfortunately it doesn't pan out this way, and you end up working for practically free doing all the crap jobs!

somewhere along the way I developed some guts and decided to throw caution to the wind and send out my cv (thats resume to you guys, heh!) - I got another job within a TV co. designing their promotional stuff and what have you - made tonnes of mistakes and somewhere along the line learnt enough to cobble together a decent enough portfolio to get this, my current job, which is that of a Production Editor - not sure that title means anything to anyone, least of all me ha!! no no, thats a little unfair:

this is what I do:
I work to others templates/style sheets etc and put all the relevant text/photos in all the right places, occassionally it gets very exciting and I change a RGB colour image into CMYK or a JPEG into a TIFF (so who ever mentioned that... yehah!) However, a lot of the complicated print stuff is taken care of by other people, my boss, etc,. (and it sounds rather daunting, like another language!!!)

The problem, perhaps confiedence, perhaps lack of experience, which I am sure can and will come with time, unless I am doubting it... in which case I know nothing other than fear... Hence I put a random posting here, asking you lovely people for advice...

Think that everything you have said / done / included as an example has been of great help, in that it shows that one has to try and experiment and learn and grow... so thanks!!

I especially appreciated the comments from BeeKay and must admit a curiousity led me to check out your website and work on there, v.interesting how you split down your experience to 2 alternative cv's - good thinking

Oh cricky, I have waffled on, without saying thanks to the following:

Big you: The glue design, I really liked, simple/effective, but kinda cool with a modern feel to it, so how'd u do that grey squiggle? is that an illustrator thing? (a package that goes waaaay above my head!?!)

jedart: the casino website: I guess you were commissioned to do this? it is also great, a tad too garish for me, but erm, this is the trick when meeting your clients needs? But u mention asking questions about what appeals, wahhha! I always do this.. I can do this, for things that are complete, I was once, unbelievably rather eloquent at deconstructing images, heh heh! but Uni aside, give me a blank canvas and I know that I hate to admit it, but I break out in a cold sweat and panic...

Who mentioned Fonts?! now that is a huge can of worms. Things that I think look good, my boss does not. (okay so everyone has there favourites - and all our work is for a very dry, legal, clientele - so anything modern or groovie is out the window...)

finally, tommy, thanks great 3-point advice; have tried to bring in old design -type magazines that I inherited from a friend a while back, but though that was an interesting challenge, think that I may have lost the plot, even then, as we only ever do two-colour when attempting to design a new template and looking at fab, glossy, expensive mags is rather frustrating... ! but yes, undeniably a good way to learn..

okay me thinks I have said toooooo much..

L8RS

and thanks once again, look forward to any comments...

but pls. be gentle

Kit

kit : you said you were lacking confidence ... don't worry, it took me about one year just to start loving my work ... before that i was just doing because i had too ! now i really enjoy doing graphic design ... don't worry, as you said, it will come ... just give you time

and yep, the glue pattern was designed in illustrator ... actually everything for this project was done w/ illustrator even if the layout could be easily done in quark ...

i wish you success in your job

bigyou

Hey Kit,
You mentioned you "break out in a cold sweat" at the sight of a blank page, that's not nessisarly a bad thing. You care about your work and how it is received. I find the best way to get past a mental block is to stop "designing" for a while, I pace the floor, look at magazines, get coffee, snacks, or do some other work related task (like file backups) for a while.

As for the casino stuff, yea, much of the graphics in the casinos are "over the top", that is pressed beyond the limits of good taste. It can be fun though, working with bold, colorful graphics. I recall a recent post (here I think) from someone asking if he could do a business card in a vertical format. I replied that the design should fit the business, accountant=boring horizontal 12pt times, his card was for totallytwistedtexas.com - I wrote for that he do whatever he wanted for a fun and funky web site.

Me Again?

hey kit ... why dont you post something you have done so far ???

bigyou

Thanx & yup, fair comments from all...

bigyou / Jedart: thanks for being encouraging! *Yes* the style has got to fit to the client... but also ones boss!! as for seeing work-work that I have done, well theres nothing I can show from work unless you want to buy a very dull corporate-type magazine / book heh heh!

as for seeing fun-work stuff, well I did http://www.brighterimage.co.uk/ ages ago, hasnt changed since it first went up which is why I dont really mention it.... and it was really only to go on my cv, to get prospective employers to have a look at something prior to the interview...

I have also contributed to a friends e-zine on http://www.hackwriters.com/ but thats just little bits here and there... the odd roll over or banner... but mentioning it as its a friends heh! heh!

constructive crits welcomed but, once again, pls be gentle..

Cheers!
Kit

i'm diggin this:
http://www.brighterimage.co.uk/imagefile/digi/red1

lasers! :-)