Preserved Topic: Frames discussion

Ok, so what is happening to the overall concensus on frames?

I have seen a number of sites coming into the site reviews that have been using frames. Are frames becoming acceptable?

I still feel that they distract from the site, but what do I know, I am a wandering mage caught in an Asylum. I do not think that I have seen any of them instituted in a way that would universally work for many people.

Once I drop from 1024*768 too 800*600 they look funky, and when I drop even lower into 640*480 the look horrible. Data is lost and all sort of odd shinanagans.

Anyone one here feel like conterdicting me, telling me why we should use them I would love to know.

Appologies for bringing back an old debate,
-mage-

IMHO, warmage, it is in a way, similar to flash.
basically, i dont want to know that you are using it, all i want to see is a pretty page that loads fast.
if frames/flash help your page look pretty/load fast, then go for it.
personally, i DONT like using them myself, i see no need.
but there definitely are cases where it is the best option.

I used to hate frames, and never use them in any of my designs. But now I am beginning to use them more and more. But mainy not really as a vital part of the design itself, but more as a way to make the page end up in the center of the screen instead of in the upper left corner on higher resolutions.

I think that frames if used the right way can be good. It is a good way to keep a menu visible at all times. One does need to be careful about the size of the menu frames though, or they will take up too much of the screen on lower resolutions.
www.axelsons.se this is a site I have made recently where I used frames, and personally I think it works quite well as a way to keep the top and footer visible at all times. And I think it looks good enough even at lower resolutions like 800x600

The biggest downside with frames must be that IE and Netscape interprete them differently, and it seem near impossible to make certaing designs look good in both.

Oh, and *visible* frame are always bad, imho.

ZOX I hate to burst your bubble, but on 640*480 the site doesn't look correct. Maximize on 640*480 I get:

1) The last entry on the menu returned to the next line (off of the viewable area)
2) Horrizontal scroll bar.

Well, no bubble is bursed, as I don't design for 640x480, nor do I design for 320x240 EGA
I draw the line at 800x600. (well, not until asking the clients
what their priorities are, of course). If you are on 640x480 you are bound to run in to strange looking sites all the time.

If you set your screen to 16 colours, I am sure the site will look rather strange also... as might even the Asylum...

And I am sure it will fall apart if you try to access it using Netscape 1 - 2 also. Probably in lynx as well...

My company uesd to keep statistcs over our site, and the proprotion of 640x480 was very small. only a fraction of a percent or so. Small enough to not be a major concern of mine.

But if anyone has a good solution for how to make a page look good in both 640x480 and twice that resolution as well, then I am of course all ears...

I think frames as in most options avaible to a designer are suitable in certain cases.. I don't think anyform of layout should be discounted. When appropraiate, frames can work nicely.

I also think frames have gained a 'myth' like quality about them , mainly due tro some extremely poor usage of them. Just speaking out loud.. I never count out any method of layout... that would be like tying a hand behind the back .. so to be speak its good to have a full box of tools! !

~Vp~

frames are fine.

if i can tell you're using frames, like my friend pixels said, it sucks. otherwise, nift.

It's all a matter of how you use frames. I for one use them to make a site visible and readable and layoutable(?) for people with all resolutions. That means that you can enjoy the site with 800x600, 1024x768 and all higher resolutions...

I am generally against frames, because CSS is a much more modern way of approaching layout problems. You can do a few nice tricks with frames, but I haven't found that they add enough to sites to balance the downsides.

There is one exception though, but it has nothing to do with design. The best use of frames IMHO is for tech pages that have a huge menu and plain text pages. In such applications people are clicking to a lot of locations quickly and the frame really serves a useful purpose (ie. to keep the menu on the screen).