Preserved Topic: Tragic end of sonicsnail..

Here's the story:

April 2001 -
I was a budding professional web developer. I didn't have a decent URL, or hosting. I worked with a part-time hosting reseller who said "build me a site and I'll give you the dotcom of your choice and hosting for a year". Deal done. I noticed some weeks later that the domain was registered in his name - I had zero ownership rights.

April 2002 -
Host says "ok, your domain is expiring, I want £90 for renewal."
I said "£90?? - why? thats a bit steep."
He said "Just trying to run my business at a profit, don't argue! How dare you... I did you a favour.. etc"
I said "Can't you just let it expire and I'll re-register it myself"
He said "I'll get back to you.." then "ok.. I'll let it go.."
I said "thanks"

Then he reregistered it.

Now I'm fucked. He's got the url, but my site, mail, ftp etc has all gone.

I currently have a couple of professional clients, no online-presence, no email, and loads of business cards in circulation with worthless contact details on them.

What should I do?? I need advice big time! I haven't contacted the reseller since he re-reg'd and needless to say, our relationship is very shaky. I DO though still have the email where he said he would let the domain expire.

I'm SO glad I used miscminutiae for my sig below!

Pete

You're kinda scrooed.

Time to start dreamin up another name.

sswebdesign.com?

ssdesign.com?

sonicdesign.com?

sonicsnail.net?

sonicsnail.(insert whatever here...)?

soniquesnail.com?

Just go with another name and he'll have a useless domain on his hands.

I'm not a lawyer, (particulary not an expert on Scottish/UK law), but i work enough with trademarks and copyrights to know if you have

business cards

letterhead

promo materials

lettters

adverts

invoices

...etc. anything that can prove that sonicsnail was your brand (even without a formal trademark) ..then your case would be pretty bulletproof...

worst case the piece of shit might be allowed to keep the url but it has to be clear that his "sonicsnail" does not even remotely compete in the same sector (webdesign i guess?) than yours.

if CocaCola let their url expire, do you think i could register it? not a chance. it's intellectual property and it is protected implicitly and explicitly. there was a time when "cybersquatters" tried to buy up all the famous brand names...well they lost in court...and the laws are just as much in effect to protect the sonicsnails as they are the coca colas...but Coke can afford better lawyers.

i guess right now you can't afford a laywer. do you have legal aid in scotland?
i would start with a nice polite letter (sent by registered mail is mandatory)
saying that you have the rights (due to prior use) for the url etc. and you have
the clients, promotional materials, letterhead, etc. to prove it.

if he does not renounce the right to the url (cease and desist..this is a trademark or copyright violation) within 10 workding days you will have to pursue this further...the remedy in this case will not be the lousy 20 pounds or whatever to register but rather the loss of livelihood and prejudice you will suffer..this could amount to several thousand pounds or more...that should scare the fat piece of turd.

from the details above, unless you had given him the rights to your intellectual property, he doesn't have any grounds to stand on.....and forget the email...that can be faked....but any proven relationships with clients can't.

good luck - and try to consult a lawyer from free legal aid if you can

disclaimer: i am not a sleazy lawyer and do not pertain to know what i'm talking about but i would not be intimidated by some piece of crap web hoster who is stealing what is yours.

P.s. i manage trademarks for our firm in canada and this one seems open and shut
in your case unless the guy can prove an equity stake or partnership in your company beyond
simple hosting. even if you owe him money that does not give him the right to your name.



[This message has been edited by ShootingStar (edited 05-05-2002).]

check out this site to understand your rights and recourse
http://www.expiry.com/sub/domain/domain.laws.shtm

if you can prove that you used "sonicsnail" for commercial purposes
(with or without a trademark) and that the use of sonicsnail
was not legally co-shared with your turd hoster and then you should be ok.

don't let yourself get exploited by a huge steaming pile of turd. get a lawyer
and/or do your own research..the laws and the IP (intellectual property) precedents are there to protect you.

sonicsnail: That stinks and is lesson in keeping your domain registration and your hosting separate. I'm inclined to agree with krets as it is this point that you will usually find out what all that small print really means. However ShotingStar does make an interesting point. Is you full site still up at your old domain? If they have changed the FTP details so you can't bring the site down then they could be accussed of passing themselves of as being you and infringing copyright.

If you've got the emails where they agree to let the registration slip then you might have some evidence to use against them and if you took this any further they might not want the bad publicity - its an interesting case and if you play your cards right you could generate some interesting press for them. I would certainly try something along the lines ShootingStar suggested. Try contacting a lawyer and asking them about it - there may be some out there who might get interested in pursuing such a case so have a look around.

Keep us informed of how things go - I'm sure this kind of thing happens an awful lot and it would be good to see this resolved in the favour of the 'little guy'.

Emps

Emps
Good points although i'm much more optimistic in sonicsnail's favour.

It's one thing to rip off a picture or piece of code...this is ripping off
one's whole identity and livelihood.

We should all email the hoster if sonicsnail doesn't get his domain back.
I think we could generate some nice sleazy publicity for them, the kind
you really really don't want to get.

Sonic:
if you do go the polite letter route, to start, make sure it's addressed
to their CEO/Prez....not some lacky scum. The CEO will be more in tune
with bad PR implications and should have the good sense to avoid litigation
over something trivial (from their perspective)

DON"T send THREATS...explain it in a way to get empathy
not to provoke confrontation.

ok i'll shut up for a while...this pisses me off to no end.



[This message has been edited by ShootingStar (edited 05-05-2002).]

Definitely try what ShootingStar says - if nothing else if will provide evidence for when you take things further. Contact whoever is in charge of dishing out the domains and track down the details on domain name dispute resolution and try throwing a few quotes from their at your host.

Is your host a member of any larger organisation? If so you could appeal to them.

If this doesn't work try a bit of publicity - computer magazines and related publications might be interested, also as you are in the UK try the Guardian newspaper's consumer champion - it constantly amazes me how quickly companies move when there is the whiff of bad publicity coming their way!! Email is consumer@guardian.co.uk (other papers might have similar sections so dig them out too)..

Good luck,

Emps

the only thing i can recommend you is not to *ever* have only one email account

The best thing to do is to have at least two. One is the "base" the other is the "shield"
The shield fowards the mail to the base
You give the shield to ppl you don't know, and when you don't need it, you throw it away.. but, it has another use, if you ever lose the base, you can re-direct the shield's fowarding.

I guess that's it, good luck

Fight for what is yours....don't let some dumbf**k steal your hard-earned work. Even if you lose, at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you will fight for what is yours. Most of the time, if you presevere, you will win...most people don't have the will to fight it out to the end, especially when it's not that important to them. Go scalp the bastard, but good!

geez, shaman, you're so serious about things

losen up buddy

If you have a prob, take it to e-mail. Not here. Dig? Good.

I think I'll make some T-shirts that say, "Take it to e-mail."



[This message has been edited by Wes (edited 05-06-2002).]